they have come to me asking me to do thier subbing, im not very fond of thier products but with construction slowing down and in an area where winter is usually long i am considering it. does anyone have any experience with them?
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I have worked for them briefly, as an employee, not as a sub. After a short period of time, I realized no one in management would ever take a firm position on anything at all, except customer is always right. They would and did fire, harrass, and generally make life miserable for anyone who tried to put forward any view other than that. I know they worked over many installers. They really do not care if you make any money or are able to pay your bills. Where is the last guy who subbed for that store.
I left after I recalled something a salty old gal told me years ago: DO NOT ASSUME THE POSITION IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GET SCR%^%@
Steve
Edited 8/22/2006 6:15 pm ET by taxisteve
9571.1 43335.1
We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.
Forrest - makin' magic every day
One of my customers went to Home Depot for wood flooring. Sales guy comes out and measures and gives her the "here's the material price and here's our installed price". He then tells her that if she wants to save $1,500 (this on a job he quoted in mid-twenties) that HE can do the install on his own time over the course of a couple of weeks.
She goes for it and the guy is a total hack. After 3 months the job is about 90% finished and what is finished doesn't look at all professional. He gets bored and walks away from it - customer has already paid him in full AND bought him a nail gun he said he would need to finish the job.
She finally threatens to call HD and report him and he tells to her go ahead - he already quit. She hired another flooring company to come in and fix the mess.
I guess my only point to this story is know who your sales guy is - is it worth it if you're competing against him being a moonlighter?
-Norm
it would be hard to tell they want me to sub about 8 different things i know most of them though
I'm installing doors for them now, they have a regional contractor. The money isn't great but be ready to wait. If the customer complains, they knock money off the install.
You get what you pay for!
http://grungefm.com
A friend of mine is about to sue them because she contracted through them to have her roof replaced. They didn't get a permit or any inspections. She hired the best local roofer to inspect the job and he gave her a written list of 11 things that didn't meet code and assured her, in writing, that there was little chance of the shingle manufacturer standing behind the product since the installation was not according to specs.
If you do contract for them, expect it to be mighty frustrating. That said, I've gone through some times of mighty frustrating work where I simply needed to be paid so I did it. In the long run, no biggie. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." Voltaire
People here generally rip on HD and HD installers...and with some good reasons. I'll tell you, as a HD installer, one store I worked for was horrible to work for and one was very good to work for...until the really good install expediter left to be a paramedic. Now the "good" store is only so-so (I quit working for the bad store).
They are as good as the local people are...try it out...might be good. I did 40 of my 100 jobs for them last year. Filled my schedule enough that I raised my prices on all my other work.
Let us know if you do it and how it goes.
While I cant speak for HD I can speak for Lowes (In my town). I work mostly out of town, so I dont have lots of time for local sales. When I go out of town I tell Lowes to take me of the list temporaily. About a week and a half before I get back in they put me back on the list for as long as I tell them. Never had a problem with them telling when I had to go to work or when I could take off.
They have set charges but many ways to add to the "detail" for any other cost that may incure, Including mileage. If Im in town for two weeks my crew stays busy and happy.
I just invoiced for over 2 thousand dollars fro three days work. (actually 2 1/2 days) for a small chain link fence, and 4 doors (1 french and 3- 3/0's).
Will I get rich?
no
But It does keep my crew busy and pays for my overhead both business and personal.
I try to save the good money for out of town.
I did work for two stores at one time. The difference was night and day. Everything bad said about the big boxes on this entire forum was true with this store. They lost their entire group fo contractors within six months. (me being one of the first).
How is it they knew you, and came to ask you to become a sub?
You don't really need to answer this because if it's you frequent their store... it would appear you funded your slowdown.
a guy i went to high school with works there and ive build two houses for his brother. i went there for materials when they first opened here 1/2 of everything i got did not work. since then i go for tools and thats all.
Hey bearcatdgo,
DON'T DO IT!
I don't have a HD in my area yet although they are now building one. However, my local lumberyard wants to be like them and started advertising that "they install anything that they sell". They even put flyers in my shopping bag .... GREAT! I'm a small contractor and now my supplier wants to compete with me .... It pissed me off enough that I went to the store management and raised a little hell. I got back a conversation that went as follows ..." tell us what you normally charge (bid basis)for an installation and we (the store) will send you out to our customer and we will pay you your normal rate plus we will tack on 15 - 20% on your bill and bill the customer. Oh we'll also supply all the materials and have them delivered to the job site before you even get there. Yeah right .... looks like my supplier wants to make money off my license, my liability insurance / bonding payment and my reputation. NO THANKS!
I ask myself: why don't I charge 10 - 15% percent more for myself, keep the customer contact for future jobs and supply my own materials where I have control over the quality of materials AND make sure that they are all there when I need them? If I wanted to be a HD employee I'd go work for them but I became a contractor cause I wanted to be independent. How about you?
Seems to me that one would be smart to give themselves a "raise" and take that money and buy some advertisement and keep themselves going even in slow times plus preserve their independence.
I think that its a horrible idea to let your supplier go into competition with you the contractor! That should be against the law!
I did 6 years as a door and window installer for the HD.. . I have stories up the ying yang. Bottom line is: the boss dictated how professional the job was done ,and there was no getting around it, no matter how much you bitched... Out here in California we have a rainy hell once every few years called "El Nino" . I once got called into the boss' office ; where he complained to me, that "ALL OF MY INSTALLS TOOK AN HOUR LONGER ON AVERAGE ...AND I " USED UP" MORE SEALANT THAN ANY OF THE OTHER GUYS"I simply replied " we'll see who's doing what, when "EL NINO" comes around .".........He looked shocked , and, for a second I thought it was because of my attitude, BUT, he said " El Nino , is coming?????????" They don't care about Quality or any of that, .........it's time..... Period. And on top of that we had a dry erase board with all of the leaks ..and the installers names who did the job. One day the boss's were all pissed off , and looking at the board ; and they asked me while I walked by and chuckled....: " Why isn't your name up there?" I responded " You're asking the wrong questins to the wrong people, Why ARE their names up there?"
I had 2.0 hours to install an ENTRY door pre-hung. And that's done/finished , papers signed and driving away, Needless to say, I got damn good at installing Baldwin hardware and the like. Learned all the short cuts inb between... That's why I work for myself..........AN HONEST MANS PILLOW IS HIS PIECE OF MIND.
Now that I've left the HD install life I can say a few things : taught me alot, and NEVER ON MY HOUSE.
Hi Laumonster,
That "ain't a pretty picture" ... I'm very uncomfortable with a big box store running competition wih me. First they have been trying to maximise their profits by taking building material manufactoring jobs out of this country and now they are looking at our jobs next and trying to figure how to slurp up our profits. Its too monopolistic.For all you out there thinking that working as an installer for HD or any other big box store because this might be a way to keep your business going .... watch out! Better to make your own businesses more efficient yourself, charge a little more and put that money into advertising. You will be richer and HAPPIER in the long run.
In my town (Winona, MN), only the Big Box (Menards) refuses to install what they sell. They advertise, "we are your supplier, not the competition." All the smaller yards each have a small group of contractors who basically have work funneled to them. If you aren't in the club you are out of luck.To fill my schedule, I drive to Rochester, MN and do work for HD...they were glad to have me and the local yards were too good for me, I guess.This is the kind of work I get to do for HD (these pics have been posted here before...so skip them if saw them before--built the hood custom, on-site, from over 50 pieces):
Hey Basswood,
Very nice looking work. So .... are you happy to work for HD? Maybe its a good deal for you .... I'm sure you will and are getting nice referals from those jobs. Does HD pay you your usually rate?What really got my ire up was when I was giving the manager of our local lumber yard a hard time over the "WE Install" policy, he asked me if I knew how many contractors there were in my area. I didn't know so he told me that there were 160 of us out there .... then he said that he came from an area with 4 times the population but only 25 contractors. I took that as a threat so the next day I cancelled my account and began organizing my other area contractors to do business with our "other" yard. Something worked cause that other business no longer advertises that "They Install".THis summer HD has started building a store and I'm sure the install issue will be back. If you have a good relationship and like it, maybe I should listen to some positive comments????????Thanks
On a recent cabinet install I did, 4 condo conversions, the cab's came from H.D. I got the call the job was ready, so I showed up and started installing. Turns out the order was screwed up (measurements wrong, stain color wrong), so the contractor called H.D. to come out and get the right measurements, etc., and get the right cab's.
They came out, and had the gall to tell him that he would be better off if he had used their installer, because their installer would have double-checked the measurements, and called it in and corrected it before they shipped.
Not even so much as a "Sorry we screwed up your order" to them, or a "Sorry we screwed up your day, your job, and your paycheck" to me. Talk about creating "bad will"! So 6 weeks later the new cabinets arrived...and not one of them was right!
So now that they burned me by trying to place the blame on me, as an independent installer, for their errors, I told the contractor and the owners that I could provide cabinets from a local shop, without the headaches of H.D. And guess what - I got the job. Installed the first unit yesterday, going out today to measure for another unit.
BTW - my guys screwed up too - but they took the cab's back to the shop, rebuilt them, and we had them back out and installed by noon the same day. Try that with H.D.!
"...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
Man those walls must have a life of their own if everytime somebody measures and then they deliver to the wrong dimensions.
ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
First time they got the right finish with the wrong size. Second time they got the right size, wrong finish. If it was me, I could have lived with it, but the owners wanted the finsh they ordered.
......
edited to add: Where my guys screwed up, was when the drain line was off center, they put the sink cabinet off center to match it. I told 'em No way, the sink has to be centered on the window like the model home. Made 'em take it back and rebuild it 6" over. Hated to be the bad guy, but quality control is my job. I paid 'em a couple hundred more, but I doubt it covered the lost time.
"...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
Edited 8/25/2006 9:10 pm by Huck
I just looked into being an installer for Lowes today but after reading this thread I'm having second thoughts. I do interior work mostly (kitchen remods, wood flooring, trim, crown, built-ins) and been having tough time lately securing work. Thought the big box could fill the lean times, but you guys paint an ugly picture.
say it ain't so.
What kind of advertising are you doing? That's where I'd look first, big box last. Of course, I went into business for myself because I didn't want to be treated like an unappreciated minion!"...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
You can make better money fixing the big box contractor screw ups then actually working for them. If you are looking for work, call their door or window supplier bet they can keep you busy fixing poor work for better money.... and you get to be the good guy. Heck the tips are better then their base pay.
I have an ad in the church bulletin that runs every week for 52 weeks, mags on the truck, and literally a drawer full of business cards (father-in-law is a printer :)). Used to have ads in yellow pages and was a member of BBB but neither was worth the investment.
All work to date (2 yrs) has been word of mouth and referrals. Finances at this time limit what I can do but would like any advice.
There's been lots posted here on the subject, you might do a search of "advertising" and "guerilla advertising", or something like that. I use yellow pages, but chose a name and category that keeps me separate from the crowd. I also advertise in the local Valley Classifieds (a free classifieds booklet available at gas stations, quickie-marts, laundromats, etc.) Also, the local newspaper classifieds will yield pretty good results here.
If the Small Business Administration has a branch near you, they usually offer free counseling to small business owners, they've helped me out with some good suggestions also. I've tried direct mail, with limited results. Business cards are great, but you gotta get them in the hands of the right people, with some impetus to call ya! Its still hit-or-miss, but I haven't gotten slow enough to consider mercenary work for the enemy yet!"...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
That pretty much mirrors my experience about advertising.
Word of mouth is it.
So... get to the mouths. By that I mean talk to people, talk to everyone, everywhere. What you need is to expand your network of people that know you and know what you do. Some of the people you meet will already know people you have done work for.
Find common ground first, bring up what you do as a natural part of the conversation, not as a blatant sales pitch.
Works for me, your mileage may vary._______________________________________________________________
objects in mirror may appear behind you
I'll give it to you straight:Home Depot is a retail giant attempting to become a service giant...they are don't really have their act together, as others have said. The Wall Street pressure to show profits this quarter causes them to screw anyone they can--NOW. In general, I do not think they have the right corporate mentality for a successful service business (install program). Installing is a service and it depends on building a good reputation over time. They aren't good at eating it when they mess up...and it makes for pissed-off cutomers and installers.However, they are not going away, and are a force to be reckoned with. In any business as large as HD, there will be some well managed stores and some really good people.I found one HD store filled with shmucks and another with good kitchen designers and a good install expediter (but a bad door install program). The good store lost two good kitchen designers to Lowes and the good expediter to the local Fire Dept. So now they are just OK at best.I had one good year with HD, but the current line-up is weak. I keep my options open. I made about $45.00/hr doing cabinet installs for HD (about my typical rate).I have been getting more work from a couple of the local lumberyards lately...took forever to get "in." It's all who you know around here. I like to think my work speaks for itself (maybe not loud enough though).I jump into these HD threads just to offer another view...some stores may offer a good opportunity--it depends on the people at your store.
We got into this a while ago. I've seen pics of your work. It's excellent craftsmanship. But I would say that the quality that you strive for is nowhere to be found at HD. They don't seem to care about performance in any aspect of their business. Everyone, contractors and customers, would be better off if they would just stay out of the service business and just try and keep the shelves stocked.
"With every mistake we must surely be learning"
HD has attempted to grow too quickly, in both number of retail outlets and in pushing the install program...so I can't disagree there.They do care about growth, profit, and stock price. The current slow down in the housing market will hurt all three.Some HD people do care about quality...just not nearly enough of them. Stores in upscale markets are more likely to give a rip, IMO.
I'm really not stalking you...just haven't been on much lately and am catching up....I did about 4 jobs for HD a few years back. it was simple work (installing very , very cheap storage sheds), and I got paid right away. The one problem I had was when a dispute came up that had very little to do with the shed (customer was upset that I trampled her plants..ya know, the ones planted 6" away from the new shed). HD just took the money out of my pay without even consulting me...and it was the last job I did for them.OTOH, I have a good friend that gets 60% of his work from HD and loves the low stress of not finding the work himself. They seem to take care of him as well. I personally it is all in the connections you have and relationships you cultivate, be it at HD, Lowes, or Mr Local Lumber. People piss of people, stores do not.knowledge without experience is just information.... Mark Twain
Politicians, like diapers, need to be changed often...and for the same reason. (bumber sticker)
http://www.cobrajem.com
You speak verily.