After reading the “Construction Hall of Shame” I could not help but think about a home inspector who still works in our area.
I purchased a Victorian built in 1899. The place has real character. The inspector walked around, tested the water, etc. He brought along a bug inspector to check under the house. Well, he refused to go under the house because the crawl space (open all around) was too narrow and there were asbestoes shingles under the house. So they signed off on the termite part of it, unseen.
When I got the report for the inspection, certain passages seemed odd. Comparing the report to my new house, I realized that he had mixed the reports from two different houses! Nope, he swore up and down it was my house. Two attorneys, and I could not get a lawsuit going, even though I had not signed a contract. The inspector wrote my name into the contract.
Needless to say, I got educated on home building very quickly. And many thanks to Fine Homebuilding. Every time I started a project, that month’s feature article was about my project.
It only took a couple of [winter] months for me to discover that the vinyl siding had been installed incorrectly, allowing rain water to run under the siding! When I striped it off the porch walls, everything was gone. 6×8 girders were the consistancy of spongecake.
That was my first project. Took the porch, it had been made into a room, down to the dirt and started over.
Well, it’s been 9-years. Luckily there were no termites (previous owners sprinkled arsenic on the ground around the house). Most of the girders of this balloon construciton house have been repaired and/or replaced. Every lath and plaster wall has been removed. Structural members were inspected and repaired and/or reinforced, wiring replaced, insulated, windows replaced, etc.
My house is now solid, safe, and a real gem. And I owe a real big thank you to Fine Homebuilding.
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Damn.
Some home inspectors are great. Many are not worth the time or money.
I'm sometimes in the odd position of pointing out to a buyer what the inspector missed. i.e. one inspector made a big deal out of a piece of skip sheeting in an old roof while not even noting that the cellar was dug out three feet straight down from the inside of the footings!
Life and suffering are inseparable.
Amazingly, the home inspection industry is like every other industry, some good, some bad.
At any given time, at least in states without licensing, there could well be a higher percentage of bozo HI's because all it takes is a flashlight and a biz card. (And keep in mind, most HI's come from the ranks of contractors of one sort or another ....)
BTW, look closely at your vinyl siding. Look at the bottom edges. See those little drip holes there?
Tha's 'cause water always gets behind it.
Now, I've also seen it installed so way to much gets behind it, and without seeing yours, can't really comment, but most people expect vinyl siding to be "water tight" and it isn't.
Righto, rjw.In my case, the j-channel was mounted to the face of the window sills. Any water rolling off the sills went right under the siding. Under the siding was 3/8" interior ply as sheathing. Vinyl siding is gone now. Threw it all in the dump. House is now sided with Atlantic White Cedar shingles over tar paper. Beautiful.I thought the holes in the siding were for air circulation. But I see how it would work for water, too, if there was a waterproof barrier underneath.That's another thing. Never use tyvek. Hate it. I use good ol' tar paper. Seals around nails and keeps the water out. Watched "This Old House" put up cedar siding. They put tar paper over the tyvek. What does that tell you?
Watched "This Old House" put up cedar siding. They put tar paper over the tyvek. What does that tell you?
uhhhh not muchDue to recent budget cuts the light at the end of the tunnel will be turned off until further notice.
I heard tyvek and cedar does not play well with each other. 2+3=7
Probably another reason - unstated, tho - why we hang our siding on 3/8" lath or ply strips up here. The so-called 'rain screen' being the primary function. I'll ask my BI...All the best...
To those who know - this may be obvious. To those who don't - I hope I've helped.
>>Watched "This Old House" put up cedar siding. They put tar paper over the tyvek. What does that tell you?That they read the article in FHB a few years ago about the tannins(?) in cedar deteriorating tyvek?
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Out of Curiosity Bob,
How does an independant inspector go about protecting both his Integrity and his income stream?
I ask because somoene I have dealings with on occasion runs an Inspection service in New Jersey. Petty good guy. One of the first to get going on the states new education requirements to keep his license. He's Trained by an accredited institution ( Forget which one) and for as long as I've known him has always been a pretty straight shooter.
Last year he killed two deals because his reports outlined defficiencies that prospective buyers could not afford to fix after purchase. Ever since his business has taken a pretty big hit. One of the realtors has made some pretty slanderous remarks about him and his business practices and a few of his peers have told him that now that he has killed a deal that involved Realtor X he might as well just move because the only thing he'll get called to inspect anytime soon where he is now might be a dog house.
Several years ago a friend and I were looking into a Home Inspection Franchise and while doing some investigating several people told us " Don't hide anything but never kill the deal and you'll be doing two maybe three a day six months from now" and " Kill a deal and you'll be done"
So how do you strike a balance in that business?
we have that same problem when testing concrete, piss off a contractor, no more work. So 1) must be unbias, totallity independent at all time, 2) accurate 3) only report to the paying client 4) document everything, make no assumesion, offer no solutions 5) apply service to different group of people, banks, engineers, insurance.. Be a tool instead of a service.. 2+3=7
In my area, only 1-2 per cent of realtors recommend me since my inspections are more thorough (= take longer) and my inspections have killed deals. Actually, I don't kill the deal, the house does! (e.g. rotten sills on 3 sides of house covered by exterior concrete "skirting"; 2 houses this year had 50-60% still active knob & tube wiring. They were inspected by others within the past 5 years with no mention of the K+T!!! Both cost the owners/vendors approximately $10,000- one buyer walked and the other house was reduced by the $10,000. The first vendor had the K+T replaced for $9,600 before the house went on the market again).
The real estate industry is definitely greedy and a good inspector has to meld his way, not through the realtors, but by reputation and other means. In my mind, I'm working over an addition to my website that'll get the buyer to contact me even if their realtor has recommended another inspector.
Edited 12/31/2005 3:48 pm ET by experienced
"I'm working over an addition to my website that'll get the buyer to contact me even if their realtor has recommended another inspector. "
Careful, Brian, you're courting problems there....Try the '2nd opinion' tack, but don't 'poach', eh.
I wanted to inspect our recently-acquired house, but the vendors' realtor suggested a good friend who'd built their house for them. I know I could have saved $330 + GST, but - had there been anything out of place (other than the MB bathroom door having no lock [!]), my word would have had no clout. He proved to be a knowledgable and honest man, and has maybe pointed me onto the path of HI-dom.
When I came to have our present house inspected, I was hoping the HI, who's by way of being a friend, wouldn't pick up on underheight guard rails, etc. (And, yes, the new owner was here today, and I informed him that the guardrails are not to code...I dunno, these owner/builders, eh).
How many other people out there have things they don't want to the purchaser to notice and will hire an unscrupulous HI? (and, no, I didn't hire Phil, that was the realtor's choice. Especially as he is reputable.)
All the best...
To those who know - this may be obvious. To those who don't - I hope I've helped.
As a professional HI, I have an ethical responsibility to do the best job I can for my client. The client is paying me to find any deficiencies in the house or commercial property. I am also liable for defects that I miss - I can be sued! I therefore perform a very through inspection and report facts - I do not report cosmetic items, only defects. A qualified and competent HI does not kill the deal - the house or the buyer kill the deal!
Reputable buyers agents, who have their clients interest in mind, refer me on a regular basis. However, on the other hand, if they are representing the seller - I'm the last guy they want to see show up to do the inspection. We give a free 90 day warranty with our inspections - we have to do a good job.
In Georgia, HI's are not licensed and I see more and more unqualified people entering the profession that do not belong in the industry. All the more reason to practice due dilligence when hiring an inspector - check them out and make sure they are qualified for the job.
Edited 12/28/2005 6:52 am ET by JohnSr
>>We give a free 90 day warranty with our inspections - we have to do a good job.Where do ou get your crystal balls from?<G>Every time I've ordered one, it doesn't work when Its delivered, I think it's the postal service guys tossing stuff around....
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Wish I had one that worked. Then I would have known not to test the garage door that broke when I operated it a couple of months ago.
Ladies (home owners) "divorce attorney" contacted me - usual threats (wonder how he is getting paid).... Cost me $452 to replace the top panel of the door that was obviously defective. Oh well, cheaper than going to court and possibly winning.
Here in NC HIs are required to be licensed. The test is somewhat rigorous and you are required to either work as an "apprentice" for 6 months or so (I forget how long) before you can get your license. If you are a licensed GC you can forgo the apprentiship. Annual education is required to to keep your license so between that and the licensing fee it is about $500/yr. I had the license, but let it expire because it just didn't seem to make sense money wise and I decided that it wasn't to me. A thorough inspection takes maybe 4 hours, an hour or 2 of paperwork, throw in an hour or more of travel and the cost of the necessary insurance and it just didn't seem like much fun working in a very potentially adversarial situation...
"How many other people out there have things they don't want to the purchaser to notice and will hire an unscrupulous HI? (and, no, I didn't hire Phil, that was the realtor's choice. Especially as he is reputable.)"That is strange. The HI should be working for the BUYER.That is the way that it works in MO and I think most of the US.A friend of mine is an RE agent and she said that they don't recommend any HI, but will give them a list of several inspectors for the buyer to use.
Many moons ago I used to be a HI in Anchorage Ak. On the standard purchase contract that all of the realtors use (I think the MLS puts it out) there is a clause that allows the seller to approve or not approve any home inspector.
All of the realtors say they have nothing to do with the selection of the HI. So how would a seller know to not allow a particular HI on their property.
It was my experince that the realtors almost totally control over the HI selection process even though they will strongly deny it.
I miss inspecting home a little, I don't miss realtors at all.
A friend of mine is an RE agent and she said that they don't recommend any HI, but will give them a list of several inspectors for the buyer to use.
That sounds like a recommendation to me. Who made the list? Are all HIs on it, even the "bad ones"?
It is unethical for a real estate agent to "recommend" inspectors, mortgage brokers, etc. However, it is common practice, at least here in Montana, to provide a list of service providers as long as there are at least THREE choices on the list. You can then relate to clients which ones you have had personal and documented experiences with...but this is getting into a gray area. Best to provide three names of people you trust and then let them decide. jesse
realtor (previously remodeler and timberframer)
Who decided on the number 3. What if there are 20 inspectors availble?
I don't know who decided on the number 3. I guess the lawyers did? But it is standard practice here amongst real estate agents to always provide three choices when somebody asks. This is not just in my office - it is what is taught in pre-licensing, ethics, and continuing ed classes.
I think in order to really sincerely be impartial a list of 5 or 7 or more choices should be supplied. I can see 3 as a minimum, but personally I don't perform my work in a minimal manner. If 3 is all that are available, that is another matter.
Edited 12/31/2005 9:58 am ET by Matt
>>It is unethical for a real estate agent to "recommend" inspectors, mortgage brokers, etc. However, it is common practice, at least here in Montana, to provide a list of service providers as long as there are at least THREE choices on the list. You can then relate to clients which ones you have had personal and documented experiences with...but this is getting into a gray area. Best to provide three names of people you trust and then let them decide.There might be state laws or regs which would dictate such a "rule," but in and f itself I don't think there is anything unethical about giving a business referral where there are no hidden interests.Now, if a RE agent were to refer "X-Ray Vision Inspectors" and not disclose that "X-Ray" pays a fee for those referrals, then there would be an ethical concern.A harder case is where the RE agent refers an inspector who is known to "go easy" on houses.But real world, there just aren't many of them that In know of - quick way to lose your shirt.Hardest case: an HI who gives straight-forward opinions, neither exaggerating or downplaying the significance of what he sees, as compared to the inspector who makes a big deal out of everything.By referring the first, is the agent serving his/her interests to the detriment of the clients (an unethical act) or serving the client's interest?Flip side: is the killer "deal is dead Fred" inspector serving his client's interests?
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
True -it is up to the buyer, but I was giving a vendor's POV. Perhaps I should have said "Hope for an unscrupulous HI". And I believe our buyers were given a choice as to HI - but when they come from 2000 miles away, who are they going to accept, except maybe on the RE's recommendation and past experience.
All the best...
To those who know - this may be obvious. To those who don't - I hope I've helped.
Edited 12/28/2005 11:40 am by piko
>>hire an unscrupulous HI? In my area, there aren't many unscrupulous HI's, you'd get sued out of your socks real fast. (That 20-20 expose 8 years or so ago could have started with the investigative reporter saying "We spent a year trying to get a home inspector to go easy on a bad roof, and we finally found one." But, of course, they stared with the footage of the guy who agreed to go easy and buried the mention that they'd been working on the story for a year way at the end.)(A far bigger problem in the biz is inexperienced folks getting into it without significant guidance.)>>That is strange. The HI should be working for the BUYER.95% of my inspections are for buyers, sellers sometimes hire me for a "pre-listing" inspection so they know what to expect and can take care of or at least disclose problems up front, rather than have the deal take a major shot when the buyer's HI is doing his thing.
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
"In my area, there aren't many unscrupulous HI's, you'd get sued out of your socks real fast."That is why my RE friend says that they don't recommend HI's.While they don't want a deal to fall through likewise they don't want to be on the list of defendents when problems are found AFTER the sale.
>>That is why my RE friend says that they don't recommend HI's.>>While they don't want a deal to fall through likewise they don't want to be on the list of defendents when problems are found AFTER the sale.Yep, it's a high liability industry.The key is making sure clients understand what they can expect and can't expect for the amount of time they are willing to pay for.
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
High liability? Nearly every inspector I know has a limitation of liability in their report that reads like it was written by a team of Philadelphia lawyers!
- We're not responsible if it's concealed.
- We're not responsible if it's dark.
- We're not responsible if the sun's in our eyes.
- We can't take anything apart.
- We're not liable for any damages in excess of our fee.
- We're not experts in plumbing, heating, electrical or structural systems, don't rely on us.
- Don't rely on us for zoning or code compliance.
....... and on and on.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
>High liability? Nearly every inspector I know has a limitation of liability in their report that reads like it was written by a team of Philadelphia lawyers!Yep, but those clauses are far from bullet proof. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother to pay the thousands for E&O insurance every year.And for all of those exclusions (at least the legitimate ones) you listed: it is simple dollars and cents.I offer two levels of inspection: my "standard" with most of the those Limitations you mention, for the going rate for the amount of time it typically takes.I also offer an "inspection plus" lifting most of those limitations, for additional fees to cover the increased time and increased risk.Not one person out of over 3000 has been willing to pay for the amount of time such an inspection would take. (And the big dog in town does the same, 1 bite out over something like 25,000 inspections, I'm told.)>>- We're not responsible if it's concealed.How much would you charge to assume liability for stuff you can't see?>> We're not experts in plumbing, heating, electrical or structural systems, don't rely on us.To get experts in each of those fields would drive inspection costs up 5-10 fold. Think of us being like your family physician: we aren't expert in every technical detail, but we are trained in spotting when a specialist is needed.I think you need to think through the market realities a bit before condemning the business on the bases you've set out.
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
I suggest that you go back and reread my post.
I never condemned any businesses.
I commented on the contracts that I have seen.
Stop being so sensitive.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
OK, I reread your messsage.I had said: >>I think you need to think through the market realities a bit before condemning the business on the bases you've set out.As you pointed out I was wrong, you didn't condemn any business.What I should have said was:" I think you need to think through the market realities a bit before making such ill-informed comments."Feel better?
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
I had the same situation when I was practicing law, problems with the brokers not liking me. I guess my input squelched a few deals too. I had one old lady that was selling her sister's home, that was a wreck, and it was going to be subdivided. The builder wanted her to wait for the money, until after the subdivision. I wouldn't agree to that, and he signed the contract then came back a few months later and insisted he needed time. He got about another 2-3 weeks, then I said put up or shut up. The place was dirt cheap. I knew if he backed out it would be resold in a week. He came through with the money.
The broker went behind me to the client and told her I wasn't doing my job. Problem was, I explained everything to her before I did it, and she agreed with me. Builders were a sort of consistent problem with subdivisions like that.
I also used to tell my clients that they had to honestly fill out the seller's disclosure forms when they sold, and I required them when they bought property too. Most of the sellers here would rather just give a small credit ($500) on the purchase price instead of filling out the form.
You get a reputation, one way or the other. I was in the position that I didn't need the closings to keep the doors open. I would rather be honest and up front and know I told the client the truth. You don't have to dramitize it, just be honest.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Some home inspectors are certainly worth the money. Unfortunately its another one of these occupations that anyone can do who can read a book, take a home study course and off you go. The reason people call a home inspector in the first place is because, as the home buyer, their construction knowledge is minimal to nothing at all, that said it attracts slackers looking for easy pickings. You are better off finding a competent and willing builder and pay him a days wages to go over the place with a fine toothed comb. A friend of mine bought a house on the east coast several years ago. They hired a home inspector and paid him 300 bucks to check the place out. I ended up remodeling the house, a total gut job. Their final comment was it would have been worth the cost of a plane ticket to fly you out to look this place over before we bought it. The guy was a complete shyster, the structural flaws he signed of on warranted a lawsuit but he managed to cover his azz in legal jargon. I wouldn't hire one unless he could prove he has a practical working knowledge of the trades and has actually worked in the field he plans on critiquing.
Ah, yes, live and learn. You are 100% right.Since the purchase of this house, I have educated myself and become friends with a number of builders and other tradesman. Believe me, this will never happen to me again. And if I have anything to do with it, it won't happen to my friends, either.And $300 seems cheap. Most out here are $450 and up.Happy New Year!!
It'll be interesting to see how my daughter's situation turns out. HI appeared to do a thorough job from the report I saw. In the attic, in the crawl space, on the roof, etc. Caught some stuff that indicated he was doing his job. Then a month after she moves in had an electrical issue. Opened the panel (main & circuits in a single external panel, right below the meter); found an inch of water! Turns out it was an internal panel; luck she didn't short out the whole neighborhood! Oh yea, the feed was a guage too small as well.
Home warantee company says it's not covered cause it's illegal. They're working with the RE now (a friend) to see what their options are. And yes, the panel has been replaced!
Great info on this thread - thanks all!
You are better off finding a competent and willing builder and pay him a days wages to go over the place with a fine toothed comb.
That's funny!! In the past 2 years I've had a contractor hire me to inspect potential investment properties for him. Others who also have hired me in that time are: a municipal BI, the provincial building code official (an architect) responsible for adopting/changing our building code, a Phd civil engineer, two research civil engineers, two electricians, a licensed carpenter
A contractor does not get the in depth knowledge needed- that's why he has to hire a lot of the work out to subs.
A contractor does not get the in depth knowledge needed- that's why he has to hire a lot of the work out to subs.I said Builder, not contractor. A builder builds stuff, knows how things are put together, know how to fix things. A contractor just knows who to call to get the job done.
In my part of the woods, builder and contractor are used interchangeably and generally refer to the GC. The association that represents house builders/GC's is called the Canadian Home Builders' Association.
I think we're just splitting hairs here now. In my post, fill in "contractor" with "builder" and we get the same meaning/ sense/ context. This person would still not be trained to do a full house inspection.
This person would still not be trained to do a full house inspection.My point is a person who has worked in the trades all of his life is still going to recognize more building defects than the guy who gleaned all of his knowledge out of a book and got his license out of a box of cereal. 30 years ago there were no home inspectors and people get by reasonably well. Now they are crawling out of the woodwork and people rely upon them when in fact it provides no more than a false since of security. I also agree with bob in the respect that people don't want to pay for a first class inspection. That's part of the problem, maybe the biggest part but people are reluctant to pay for someone's opinion when they have no experience to back them up. I have done about a dozen inspections in the past. ####full blown check takes all day, about 200 bucks worth of time. Most don't want to pay it and simply ask what do you think about the roof or what about this and that, hoping to get by with a cup of coffee. In the case of my friends east coast house I spotted four major problems within two minutes of getting there. A 10 year old could have done better than the schmuck they hired.
>> I have done about a dozen inspections in the past. ####full blown check takes all day,Took me a long time when I was getting started, too.After 3000+, I'm a bit more efficient than that.Earlier you made the comment>>I said Builder, not contractor. A builder builds stuff, knows how things are put together, know how to fix things.IMO, probably the best sort of builder to get would be a disaster recovery type, as he's going to have a pretty good idea how to fix a lot of stuff. Of course, he'll take awhile figuring out what to do and how to do a home inspection.And the word "builder" covers a lot of ground and there aren't many around who do everything.Would your average builder know what he was looking at inside the main panels/or sub panels? Would he know what the inside of a heat exchanger looks like? What it should look like?As already noted: How long would he take? I do inspections everyday and have it down to an efficient system.Would your average builder know the sorts of problems he's likely to see in the various developments he goes into before he gets there? A lot of the problems I find in houses is one "builder" screwing up something another "builder" did: cut joists, framing against furnace and water heater flues, cut trusses, etc.Yes, there are a lot of bozo wanna be home inspectors. There are a lot of bozo wanna be handymen and "builders."There are people who are also very good at those trades because they work at it and develop the skills and knowledge needed.>>In the case of my friends east coast house I spotted four major problems within two minutes of getting there.I'm curious, what were they?
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
In the case of my friends east coast house I spotted four major problems within two minutes of getting there.I'm curious, what were they?A basic description of the house.Built in 1945, 2 story duplex, typical of the 10-block neighborhood, full brick exterior.As soon as I got out of my truck I noticed long cracks in the exterior brick wall at the corners of 4 windows and both doors. Previous job experience had shown that many homes built right after the war were 2 row brick and masonry construction with no wood framing for the exterior walls. I inspected the tops of the window casing and did not see any sign of the typical lentil commonly found in all masonry construction. I suspected due to the steel shortage of the era a wood header had been used. I took a screwdriver and was able to shove it up along side the casing and as suspected drove it right into punky wood. Later on we replaced the first floor windows and every one of the headers supporting the brick above was a severely dry rotted single oak 2x6 with a 2x2 ledger nailed on one side. We ended up replacing all the rotten lumber with steel angles mortared in place.Interior. The kitchen ceiling common with the bathroom floor above sagged 1-½ inches in six feet, along the outside wall. The inspector wrote it off; as having been built that way and the proof was 50 years later it was still there so was not a concern. My gut told me the second floor joist were imbedded into the first layer of masonry wall and the ends had dry rotted off. We gutted the ceiling and found my prognosis had been correct. The whole mess should have collapsed long ago except for the fact that the bathroom floor above was tile over a 2 in thick laver of meshed concrete. As the joist ends rotted off the concrete slab, with the cast iron tub, settled down and was now using the iron soil stack as a support post eventually breaking the lead seal of the toilet causing a small leak to form.Service Panel:I knew it was outdated however the long-term water stain directly under the panel had me concerned. Upon removing the cover I saw where rainwater had been funneled down the conduit into the box corroding the main lugs to the point the screws were no longer visible due to the oxidation.I could go on but you get the point. The jerk should have been sued however after taking the contract to a lawyer it was determined he was liable for nothing short of a total collapse of the building.And the word "builder" covers a lot of ground and there aren't many around who do everything.Yes its one of those words that has lost it's meaning. The word builder was and still should be Carpenter. Have you ever heard a plumber refer to himself as a Plumbing Builder, or an electrician as a Elictrician Builder, etc. No I don't think so, builders are carpenters and as builders they have more contact with the other trades than anyone else. Yes I do think a good builder can reconize a problematic furnace, service panel etc. Maybe not know how to fix it but at least call attention to the need to have it checked further by a expert in his field. I can tell from reading your many posts that you are a stickler for detail and are very good at what you do however I think as home inspectors go you are in the minority. The person who has the need to have a presale inspection done is more than likely going to hire his remodeling projects out as well. So it would stand to reason why not have your builder look at the project before you buy the place. Easier said than done, especially if you are new to the area, like you said finding a good builder is no easy task, another case of buyer beware.To each and all have a great New Year.
Interesting what some people may claim as a major deficiency!! My first house I bought as a shell and renovated. It had major deficiencies according to the current code since the rafters were framed 4' oc -perfect for adding 2 small front dormers. In our codes, anything framed more than 2' oc must be engineered. In 1992, when a contractor came to my house to buy equipment (I was downsizing and moving to where I am now), he commented on how straight the old place was for 60-80 years old. I had to correct him on the house age as it was about least 200 years old at the time. (Note:The family I bought the house from bought it back from me!!)
So did I have to change the roof framing?? It stood the test of time and will still be standing in another hundred years if these folks keep up maintenance, replacement, etc. I see framing every week that does not meet current codes but is not indicating any problem. Should I call it if it has been in place 30-40-50+ years with no problems........I don't think so!! That brings an item into play that is not an issue.....I've made the judgement call on it and have to live with it.
Even municipal BI's do not require a lot of framing be upgraded on a renovation unless severely cut (joists, rafters), or something more than the regular 1/2-1" sagging that most older floors show from wood compression, wide spans, etc. It isn't near failure and if the owner will accept it to save $$, what's the problem.
After 22 years of part and full time inspecting, I've never been sued and have paid 2 clients a grand total of $102 for a couple of small things so they won't be blabbing whatever around (good PR). Both items I called on site such as this one- "when you get that stuck "open" municipal water shut-off valve loosened, it most likely will leak at the valve stem and you may have to to replace it" Sure enough it had to be replaced and he sent me the $47 bill. I paid it as he was a recent immigrant engineer and by his tone, I felt he would surely spread crap around his large firm where I was getting 1-2 relocation inspections every month. Good PR!!
Edited 1/1/2006 10:53 am ET by experienced
interesting discussion, thanks...