I want to build a small (440 sf) hunt camp on some acreage I have in Northern Michigan. It would only be used for a week or two each year so I want to avoid the expense of electrical service and well/plumbing/septic system. I haven’t approached the powers that be regarding a building permit as I’m near certain (from on-line investigation) that I’m going to hear “No way. you’ll need well, plumbing et al.”
Experience tells me that if I approach this situation properly, ask the right questions and have the right answers, that local officials may say “Oh yes, there is a fine print note that allows you to………”
I’m wondering if any of you can give me some pointers on how to approach this.
Reg
Replies
just build it, I doubt that is even a permit board in that area.
build it on skids so it's a temporary sturcture. Shouldn't need a permit as long as it temporary.
If there is a building dept, than most likely runners of some sort will have to be the way you go to avoid the permits
Permit it for a barn or storage shed.
dug
You can probably build some type of structure under a given sf-age w/o a permit. Explore that first.
Friend of mine wanted to build a shack up in Waters. Building Dept said his plans didn't meet min SF requirements.
Turned out the inspector fished flies, too. They talked trout for a while, turned into a long while -- The Au Sable. The Manistee. The Pere Marquette. The Black.
Finally the inspector said, "Why don't you call this your tool shed? Main House goes over there."
So he put in the septic field, and built the "tool shed." Regular toilet inside, which we flush with a bucket from the rain barrel that fills from the roof.
Guess he musta run outa money, or something, before the well got drilled and the main house built. Yep, more I think on it , that musta been what happened.
AitchKay
I agree with calling it a storage shed. Purpose is to store equipment to maintain the property. Build it off the beaten apth and I'm sure it'll be "don't ask...don't tell" No! not the Brokeback Mountain type...
So where is "Northern Michigan"?? People who live in Detroit think it is West Branch, people who live in Grand Rapids think it is Gaylord or Cadillac, people who live in Milwaukee think it's anywhere in the U.P.
I can't imagine why you would have any trouble with a building permit. You don't have to tell them what you want to use it for anyway. Lots of people up here do what you are intending to do.
As far as they know, you are building a storage shed or a fancy deer post....although nowadays, some deer posts do have power and bathrooms!
You technically have to get a building permit for anything over 140 sq. ft. but I know of lots of shacks that size that have "appeared out of nowhere"
So where is "Northern Michigan"??
Anything north of I-96/I-69.
dont there build those ice shacks for fishing on the foozen lake, one got beached huh.
There's always a good number that go floating in the spring. Isn't that what happened to Frenchy?
Easier to ask for forgivingness than permission, when dealing with the Gov
The best answer is simply to talk to the people who have jurisdiction over the area, and or to read the applicable ordinances.
I can tell you that after ten years on the board here, most suggestions like what the first half of them in this thread are based on myth and will get you more trouble than you can beg or borrow your way out of.
There may be a good chance that you don't even need a permit as long as ABC, but as soon as you give the AHJ the idea that you are trying to skirt them, every nail you drive falls under a magnifying glass.
I've seen some of the same myths tried here to no avail -
and there are lots of structuyrres that can easily be permitted with no great inconveinience.
For instance,
"build it on skids so it's a temporary sturcture."
Our odinance does not recognize "temporary". A structure is a structure. placement and size are the dominating things of concern. Lot of people try to put a metal pole and canvas "Cover-it" type thing too close to water or the road or the side lot lines arguing that it is temporary, only to foind that they get to move it and that the permit would have only cost them $25 in the first place and saved them the trouble of moving it by letting them know where to put it.
"Permit it for a barn or storage shed."
Then as soon as you use it for something else, it is an unpermitted structure and that hundred dollar a day fine can begin to accrue. Lying to the AHJ is a really good idea!
"just build it, I doubt that is even a permit board in that area."
Better to find out if there is an authority and what the rules are. Far too often it is easy to get the permit but hard to fix the mistake of building without one. A guy who tried this basic same philosophy tore down his old shack first, then started building new. Had he gotten a permit first, his location would have been grandfathered, but by tearing the old one down first, he lost that advantage and had to move the new one back further from the water.
I am constantly amazed at people who proceed on an expensive venture like this ignoring basic protocol when it is so easy most of the time to do it right.
and this 'advice' coming from a concrete engineer who would never say "Just add water and slope it into the form" and an airplane mechanic who would never suggest just getting the plane in the air with a 'temporary' fix to hold the wing on.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
too-say
I certainly agree with you that he should get a building permit. Sooner or later they will find out about the structure and he will be in trouble.
But for his information, there is absolutely no requirement that he have anything other than the basic structure, properly built, for use as a deer camp.
I could go to a hundred relatively new camps in our area that use outhouses, pump water and maybe a generator.
I think he's worried that he won't be able to do that.
That sound you hear is me clapping . Well put.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I just don't understand the great need to skirt the procedures. Most people only hurt themselves that way, and doing from the assumption that it might not be permitted instead of real information is doubly confusing. One simple phone call and he knows something!So how goes it? Haven't seem much of you since the Great Tavern Pogrom Fiasco...;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
It goes well. Progressing on my winery project, ready for the first set of small mono trusses on Wed. (Weather permitting, we are having one of our periods of winter where the temps will be in the 20's during the nights, below freezing days after 2-6 in of snow.)
On budget and right on schedule so all is good there. My worry right now is concrete freeze. Poured the 6000 sq./ft. slab 27 days ago and have had nothing but fog and rain ever since, bit worried about slow cure and moisture in the crete freezing and popping the top. I had been debating covering the slab with plastic/straw but then it would be impossible to work over it if any moisture is present. These condition don't occur often here (maybe once every four years or so )so I am a bit out of my experience range and the experts here I have consulted offer a lot of "maybe's and it is possible's" to "You won't have any problems"" Forecast temps as of today show a range from low teens to low thirties but forecasting these events here is a bigger wild card then they allow in casinos Sitting here watching snow fall right now so the decision appears to have been made for me by my inaction. Today I will jump in my rig and drive up to the site which is well up into the heavy snow elevation and check things out. Could be we will have a weather induced stop work order come tomorrow morning, no sense risking life and limb for a days progress.
I have already called all the suppliers and told them hold deliveries until I call, the road up to the site is a long, narrow, twisty and steep blacktop 2 laner and shaded for a lot of it's length and I don't want one of my delivery trucks getting out of control on an icy grade. Funny because the last winery I did I had the same conditions (but worse )on and we shut down for 3 weeks until I could access the site safely. I escaped the general tavern slaughter and again the most recent one over the "Right" to marry issue. I have been observing more, posting less unless the topic is one close to my heart. Life is good, family is good, and not being an investor I just can sit by and watch the market stuff happen with a benign look on my face except for knowing that it all affects all of us. To You personally and All in general , I wish a Good Christmas and Holiday Season and may next year keep us all healthy and working. Sorry for the wordy reply, , up early and too much coffee! John
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Glad to hear it all Werdy
;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
One certainly can read a lot into things people write (or don't for that matter). Seems to me that when talking about the written word and how it's interpreted, 50% is how it's written (to include the mood/attitude/motivation of the writer) and the other 50% of the perception is how it's read by the reader (to include the mood/attitude/motivation of the reader).
Yep, that's why I say to talk to the AHJ. you get the prevalent interpretation that way.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Oh and hey, that's former aircraft mechanic
LOL, it was a temporary stint, eh?;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Life is temporary.
Now that's what I'm talking about. I appreciate all the comments as I'd rather have some options in mind when I talk to the local officials. I've been pounding nails long enough to know that if a local official is having a bad day you are likely to get the most conservative interpretation of local regulations.This camp will be in the UP of Michigan and located in the middle of 53 acres. I'm a small MI contractor so am not trying to avoid a permit, but do want to avoid as much of the bureaucracy as I can. According to a list of requirements I received from a local code official, I'm required to have the flora and fauna evaluated, wetlands evaluation, Corps of Engineers approval (I'm 1/2 mile from water), land use approval, and I think a couple of other things. Hell, I just want a spot where a few of us can drink beer, smoke cigars and tell lies for one week a year.Thanks much guys.
put it on a trailer
that sounds like the way I'd go. A lot of RVs are on the market cheap since gas costs skyrocketed. Pull it in easy and quick and leave it there so all you need to bring in each year is gas for the generator, and the beers. The lies take care of themselves. And if it turns out he has to move it, it is easy to do.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
What county are you building in? You will definitely have problems with the DEQ if the building or the road is in a wetland area.
Since most of Delta County is a swamp, I'm guessing you might be there??
Well said, My front porch rotted off and i started to rebuild it when my wife said she wanted it closed in with windows, Iffy if i needed the permit but i went to town with my pics and told them what i was doing, I got chewed out, took out a permit and im very glad i did as they told me the neighbors had already asked if i had a permit.
Here in Michigan you're not required to pull a permit for structures under 200 square feet. That's what all these skid barns are people are talking about. Look around. Do you see alot of skid barns over that size? Not too many.
A week or two a year?
Buy a outfitters wall tent (or two). http://www.cabelas.com
IF you want to go uptown, build a platform for it.
No worries about maintenance, vandalism, etc.
Cliff
Put it on wheels like this -
http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/
If you keep it simple, it shouldn't cost too much
http://www.lodge-on-wheels.com/
Many of these little houses have solar to generate electricity. You can heat them easily and put in an incinolet if you think you need bathroom facilities.
I would try to get it permitted, though. Saves some hassle down the line.
Edited 12/14/2008 2:02 pm ET by SquarePeg
Build it out of recycled material so it looks old... if you et caught just tell them it was on the property when you bought it.
I see some people here build carports to put over there trailers with storage sheds on the side, So they drive down, park under a roof yet have a little shed for generator, BBQs shovels etc, Maybe a trailer would work then your self contained if you can get through the roads.