I have a 2 x 6″ framed wall In which to put a 3 1/4 ” Thick eyebrow window 17″ x 48″. i want to make a cedar extension jamb. However that seems like a strong radius , Does anyone have any suggestions.
I was thinking i could rip a piece of cedar down to the right width, and ripp it the other way too, To about 1/2 Inch. Then i thought maybe i could throw it in the hot tub over night to soften it up, then i could bend it and pin it in place. Only problem : I don’t have a Hot tub!
i was thinking i could stick it in the one down the stree and ten sneak back in about 5:30 Am to retrieve it. Anyone have a better idea. Thanks
Where there’s A wheel there’s a way, got any wheels?
Replies
Drywall return, radius bead and cedar stain?<G>
Can I use that Outside Ralph?
Where there's A wheel there's a way, got any wheels?
Edited 8/28/2003 7:05:48 AM ET by MuleSkinner
Build a steam box. Here is a good steam bending faq:
: I've seen this posted a number of places. I got this version off Rec.Woodworking on DejaNews. It's more than anyone ever wanted to know, but it includes information that should help with your project.
: Subject: Re: Bending wood
: From: [email protected] (Gregg Germain)
: Date: 1998/02/04
: Message-ID: <[email protected]>
: Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
: [Subscribe to rec.woodworking]
: [More Headers]
:
: TimOdell ([email protected]) wrote:
: : Does anyone know of where I can get information on ways to bend wood?
: Below you will find my FAQ on Steambending which is posted in this
: newsgroup from time to time.
: --
: This FAQ on bending wood is provided courtesy of Gregg Germain. Any
: comments would be welcome. Comments should be directed to
: [email protected].
: I've been in the business of steambending wood for about 10 years now.
: I've built a variety of steamboxes and tried a number of boiler
: systems. What you see written here is a combintation of reading and
: actual experience. Mostly experience.
: All of my steam bending has been with either Oak or Mahogany. I've
: never tried any other wood as I do this work in my
: boatbuilding/restoration. So I cannot comment authoritatively on
: bending other woods like cedar, pine, poplar etc.
: And if I haven't actually DONE it, I will not comment on it. I will
: not state anything here that I have ONLY read out of a book and not
: tried.
: With that in mind, let's fire up the boiler....
: To start with there are several rules of thumb which work quite well.
: What you are doing when you are steaming wood for bending, is
: softening the hemicelluloses. The celluloses are polymers that
: behave the same as thermoplastic resins. [My thanks to John McKenzie
: for the last two sentences].
:
: And you need BOTH heat and steam for this. I realize that some people in
: Asia "fire" bend their wood but invariably, that wood is quite wet -
: typically quite green. The Norse boatbuilders used to get their planks out for
: shipbuilding and sink them into a salt water bog to keep them limber until the
: time came to use them.
: However, we are not always so lucky as to get green
: wood for our bending and you can have great success with kiln dried wood.
: It's useful if you have the ability to soak your wood for a few days
: so that the moisture content rises - those Vikings knew what they were
: doing.
: You need heat and you need moisture.
: The primary rule is the one for steam time:
: One hour of steaming per inch thickness of wood.
: I have found that you can OVERSTEAM as well as understeam. If you
: steam an inch of wood for an hour, try to bend it, and it cracks,
: DO NOT assume that you haven't steamed it enough. There are several
: factors involved which could explain the result - but we'll get to
: those later.
: It is smart, however, to have a piece of stock in the steam box that
: is the same thickness as the piece you wish to bend, and that is
: expendable. PREFERABLY a piece taken from the stock itself. Steam that
: with the target piece, and after the requisite steaming time, take the
: test piece out and try to bend that to the mold. If it snaps, then
: give your piece MAYBE 10 minutes more. But no more.
: The wood:
: Generally it is best if you can get green wood. I know that this
: makes the cabinetmakers among us shudder. But the plain fact is that
: green wood bends easier than dried wood. I can take a 6 foot
: long, one inch thick piece of white oak; clamp one end to the bench
: and hand bend the piece to the curvature I need - green wood is THAT
: limber. However it won't stay bent, of course, so I steam it anyways.
: In boatbuilding, rot is the main evil.
: For those of us that have to worry about rot, the act of steaming
: green wood removes the tendency
: of green wood to rot. So no worries there - boat ribs are typically
: made from steam bent oak and will not rot in a well cared for boat.
: But i've done a lot of steaming of kiln dried oak and it works fine
: too.
: One thing you want to try to avoid in your selection of wood for
: bending is grain runout. This will promote cracking when you bend.
: Steamboxes:
: It is not necessary - and is in fact detrimental to the bending
: process - to have a steambox that is absolutely airtight. You WANT
: steam to be emanating from the box. If you don't get a flow through of
: steam you will not be able to bend the wood - it will crack as if you
: steamed it for only 5 minutes.
: I know - I've created a lot of kindling in this manner.
: Steamboxes can come in many shapes and sizes. You want one big enough
: so that you can suspend the wood off the surface, and get a good flow
: of steam around most of the wood surface. A box made of 2 x 8 pine
: boards will work. One suspension method is to drill a hole through the
: sides and run a hardwood dowel through. The dowel holds your wood up
: and minimizes the amount of wood touching a surface. You don't want
: the box to be SO big, however, such that the amount of steam your rig
: generates is too small to fill up the box. You want a wet, steamy box
: BILLOWING steam. So the box has to be sized to the boiler (or the
: boiler sized to the box ;^) ).
: I have 2 boxes:
: For small stuff like 1 1/2 x 5/8 by 6 foot long oak for ribs, I use a
: 2 inch diameter piece of PVC. I have it resting on a 2x4 so that it
: won't deform under the heat. I've also nailed sides to the 2x4 so that the
: tube doesn't flatten. For a boiler i use a whistling tea kettle
: with the whistle and top taken off. A length of radiator hose connects
: the kettle to a suitable reduction on the end of the PVC. For a heat
: source i use one of those counter top electic burners.
: Works great.
: When I had to steam bend 17 foot long, 7 inch wide, 3/4 inch thick
: mahogany for the new cabin trunk of my boat, I used a steambox built
: with 2 x 12 inch pine. For a boiler i had a 20 gallon steel boiler.
: Heat source was a propane burner I bought at Ace Hardware Store. This
: burner is GREAT because it's convenient and mobile. It generates
: 45,000 BTU of heat. It's an aluminum
: bowl on 3 legs with one burner about 8" in diameter.
: Lately, I noticed a 160,000 BTU propane burner in the West Marine
: Catalog for $50. I bought it. Now I'll be able to generate enough
: steam to bend ribs for the Constitution.
: Now when I say "one hour of steaming per one inch of wood" I mean one
: hour of SERIOUS steam with NO interruptions. Therefore you have to
: pick a boiler whose capacity will be sufficient for the steam time you
: are looking for. I have used a 5 gallon UNUSED gasoline can for this
: purpose.
: NEVER put the wood in the steambox unless you have full steam and the
: box is completely filled. Be ABSOLUTELY certain that you don't run out
: of water BEFORE the necessary steam time. If you do, and are forced to
: add more water give it up...you'll generate kindling.
: One way of maximizing the water use is to have the box tilted at an
: angle so that any condensation within the box runs BACK towards the
: boiler.
: Another way is to set up a siphon system so that the boiler is
: constantly being refilled at the rate at which water is boiling off.
: A crude ascii picture of this follows:
:
: hhhhhhh s Where: b's are the boiler
: h h s s's are the steam outgo
: | h | h bbbsbbbb l's are a level indicator:
: | h | l b b metal tube from side
: |wwwwwhw| l bwwwwwwb of boiler with clear
: | h | l b b plastic vertical tube
: | | llllllllb b h's is water hose from
: | | b b auxilliary tank
: --------- bbbbbbbb w's are water levels
: Aux tank boiler
: As the water in the boiler evaporates, the siphon brings more water
: from the auxiliary tank. the level gauge is a simple metal tube
: extending from the side of the boiler with an elbow pointing up. Over
: the elbow you slip a piece of clear plastic. This way you can
: observethe level of the water in the boiler. The feeder hose from the
: aux tank fits inside the clear plastic level hose so that you can get
: inflow and still see the water level.
: One important point:
: If you find you have to add water to the auxilliary tank, be
: sure to add water a LITTLE BIT AT A TIME. Otherwise the flow of cool
: water into the boiler will inhibit the boiling and you will get an
: interruption in steam generation: not good.
: It's also best to begin with a full aux tank to start with so
: that you minimize the need to add cool water to the aux tank. I like
: to leave a little air space in the boiler when I begin.
: Many steam boxes have a door at one end to allow you to slide in
: pieces when you want to - and take them out when needed. For example,
: in ribbing out a boat - something you'd like to do in a day if you
: can, you crank up the boiler and (when steam is up) you put in your
: first piece of wood. 15 minutes later you put in the second. Fifteen
: minutes later the third and so on. Then, when the first piece is
: ready, you yank that out and bend it. This is all supposing that the
: process to bend and install the rib takes less than 15 minutes. When
: the first rib is in, the second piece of wood is ready..and so on.
: This allows you to do a great deal of work while avoiding
: oversteaming.
: The door serves another important function. And the door doesn't have
: to be solid either - on my small steam box i LOOSELY stuff in a rag. I
: say loosely because you want steam to be able to come out of the end
: (remember you need steam flowthrough). The secondary purpose is to
: preclude cool air from entering the steambox underneath the suspended
: wood.
: Bending:
: Assume you have the wood cooking (it makes a nice smell) and the jig
: is ready. Take pains to place everything so that the operation of
: removing a piece from the box and bending it is a FAST SMOOTH
: operation. Time is CRITICAL.
: You have only seconds.
: When the wood is ready take it QUICKLY out of the box and bend it.
: GET CURVATURE ON THE WOOD!!!!!!!!!!! As fast as humanly possible. If
: inserting the wood on the jig is complicated, bend it with your
: hands (if possible).
: On ribs for my boat - where there is a curve in 2 directions - I
: take it out of the box, slip one end into a brace and bend that end
: then bend the other end with my hands. Try to bend it MORE than the
: amount you need in the jig. But not too much more. Then
: slap the wood on the jig.
: But I repeat you MUST get curvature on the wood immediately - like
: within the first 5 seconds. Every second the wood cools it becomes
: less flexible.
: Length of wood and curvature at the ends:
: There is practically NO WAY you can cut a piece to exact length and
: expect to get curvature near the ends. You simply don't have the
: strength and you will be thwarted by springback.
: By the same token, if all you need is a 3 foot length, and
: the wood is greater than, say, 1/4 inch thick, you had better cut the
: piece 6 feet long and bend THAT. You can trim the wood to fit later. I
: am assuming the lack of some sort of hydraulic press in your shop - i
: know i don't have one. Cut the stick overlong remembering that the
: shorter the stick the harder it is to bend.
: And if you cut it overlong, you'll have more curvature near the final
: finished end - the last 6 inches of a 1 inch thick piece of oak will
: be dead straight. Depending upon the curvature you need, you may have
: to resort to carving the curvature out of the end of the wood and
: should size it with that in mind.
: Jigs:
: When you steam bend apiece of wood, and clamp it to a shape, you wait
: 24 hours for it to cool thoroughly. When you take it off the jig, that
: wood will spring back somewhat. How much depends upon the grain and
: the type of wood - it's hard to say. If your stock has a natural curvature
: in the required direction to start with (I try to take advantage of this
: whenever possible), you will get less springback.
: So if you have to get a certain curvature to the final product, make
: your jig with greater curvature.
: How much?
: Tis is the realm of black magick and I can't personally give you a
: figure. One thing I DO know is this:
: It's infinitely easier to unbend some wood that was overbent,
: than it is to put MORE bend in a cool piece of wood (assuming you
: don't have incredible leverage).
: Once caveat: if you are bending pieces that will be glued together to
: form a laminate, be sure that the jig is the exact shape you need at
: glue time - I rarely get much springback from well bent, glued wood.
: There are an infinite variety of jigs you can build. No matter what
: type you choose, you can't go wrong if you own a clamp making factory
: - you can never have too many clamps. If you are bending wood greater
: than 1/2 inch thick you must see to it that the jig is built extremely
: strongly: the amount of stress on it is quite high.
: Quite often people will use a metal strap along the outside of the
: wood as they bend. This helps to distribute the stesses along the
: length of the wood and helps to prevent cracking. This is especially
: true if you get grain runout at the outside edges.
: Well that's all i can think of now. If i think of more I'll add it to
: the FAQ.
:
: --- Gregg
: "I don't want to die, baby.
: [email protected] but if I gotta die......
: Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics I'm gonna die last."
: Phone: (617) 496-7237 Robert Mitchum
Kerf, kerf, kerf? Then almost no reveal?
Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
Edited 8/28/2003 8:11:34 PM ET by Hasbeen
Any advice On how deep to kerf a piece of 1 x ? maybe I will have to use that flex trim, by the time i get the steaming formula down I will have a day into it. I hear it is expensive. Maybe kerfing is the way to go.Where there's A wheel there's a way, got any wheels?
Depends on the radius. How close to put the kerfs depends on the radius and the width of the kerf.
Get a piece and using a fine kerf, start with 3/8" deep 1/2" apart, bend to the desired radius and see if the outer corners of the kerfs touch just as you reach the radius you want. IDEAL.
If the outside of the bend splits or deforms in any way, make deeper kerfs, if it bends too easy make 'em shallower
If the kerf korners touch too soon, place 'em closer or make 'em wider, if there is too big a gap 'tween the kerf korners do the opposite.
You will have to play with kerf bending to see what works best in your application.
I like to fill the kerfs with epoxy before bending (the final work) and use wax paper to keep it from sticking to the form.
SamT
What Sam said!Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
Oh! God I hate that kind of Answer! It means i have to do the work Ugh! LOL Hey Thanks Guys I think It is the way to go. beats the price of that Flexitrim. It will probably look better too. Have a good holiday.Where there's A wheel there's a way, got any wheels?
I've actually used wiggle board on a couple of oval windows. I sanded them smooth and gave em' good coats of exterior paint....
although my votes for saw kerfs if you don't want to get involved with steam boxes.....the one I saw in a past FHB used a piece of aluminum leader I think attched to a propane tank of a a grill that kept the water at a steam temp.pretty clever.
Be well
andy
Its very hard to grow, because it's difficult to let go of the models of ourselves in which we invested in so heavily
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