Could someone ‘splain to me how a recirc line works?
Specifically, if the water heater is in the basement, and a recirculating pump and line is plumbed to a second floor bath, should the line and pump be plumbed into the cold (inlet) side of the water heater, or should it be hooked to the hot (outlet) side?
My plumber has installed such a line to the cold water side at the water heater, and the first floor tenant is getting hot water at the sink for about 45 seconds, then you can feel the temperature start to drop, until it gets to lukewarm after about 1.5 minutes.
The natural gas fired, 40 gal water heater then cycled for 22 minutes.
Is this line hooked up to the wrong side?
Please ‘splain.
_______________________________________________________________
I just want you to feel you are doing well. I hate for people to die
embarrassed. – Fezzik the giant
Replies
Greetings Heck,
This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again which will increase it's viewing.
Perhaps it will catch someone's attention that can help you with advice.
Cheers
_______________________________________________________________
I just want you to feel you are doing well. I hate for people to die
embarrassed. - Fezzik the giant
I just did a search on this subject, and it seems that the circ line is hooked up correctly, although many prefer to hook up to the tank drain.
I am wondering now if I have a stuck check valve, or a bad water heater._______________________________________________________________
I just want you to feel you are doing well. I hate for people to die embarrassed. - Fezzik the giant
too big of a pump or the thermostat on the WH is headed south...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Pump is unplugged, same results._______________________________________________________________
I just want you to feel you are doing well. I hate for people to die embarrassed. - Fezzik the giant
carbon (soot) build up in the heat exchanger..Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Fairly new gas water heater, 6 - 8 months I think, no heat exchanger, maybe a broken dip tube?_______________________________________________________________
I just want you to feel you are doing well. I hate for people to die embarrassed. - Fezzik the giant
yup on the dip tube or an eratic thermostat...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
so what was it???Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Haven't had a chance to pull the dip tube yet, pump has been shut off._______________________________________________________________
I just want you to feel you are doing well. I hate for people to die embarrassed. - Fezzik the giant
If you get the same result with the pump unplugged, I wonder if there's no one-way valve in the line like there should be.There should be a valve in there somewhere that only lets the water flow in one direction. If it's not there, whe you turn on the hot water faucet it will draw water from BOTH sides of the water line - Both the hot side and the cold water return.Just a shot in the dark, but it would be worth checking.
Licking is lovely - It doesn't matter where you do it. [Lisa Snowdon]
I think that has to be what is going on, either no valve or bad valve.
Will check it out tomorrow am._______________________________________________________________
I just want you to feel you are doing well. I hate for people to die embarrassed. - Fezzik the giant
what was wrong with the six different post explaining how a recirc line works, the two saying they don't work, four that admitted they had dismal results, one asking for yur wet stamp and the eleven that said to call a plumber...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
That's about what I got out of it._______________________________________________________________
I just want you to feel you are doing well. I hate for people to die embarrassed. - Fezzik the giant
Not for nothing, but why use a pump? Thermosiphon could work great. Been there, done it, loved it.
got a link???Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
A link to what? It was just my house. Asked plumber to do it. He ran the 1/2" recirc line to the bottom of the tank with a check valve with a hole drilled in the flapper (drawing blank on official terms). Recirc line went to furthest reaches. Got instant hot in 3rd floor master suite. Never had the quick cold this poster describes. Probably paid a price on energy usage, but enjoyed every single time I got no-wait hot water.Now, I can wait 60 seconds at the kitchen faucet that's probably < 30' from the water heater. Aggravates me every time. Without recirc on the prior house, how much water would have been wasted to get hot to the 3rd floor easily double that distance away? LOVED that feature. Still not over that, RFH, the sound proofing, humidity control, computer controlled lighting........geez, now I'm all depressed. Thanks a lot, Marty. <g>
Cloud,
Agree, works great. Wondering though...How much extra energy (electric, in my case) do you figure it takes to constantly heat the circulating water? Doesn't the WH work harder in this set-up? And wouldn't it crap out earlier?Todd
>> ... extra energy (electric, in my case) ... to constantly heat the circulating water?Well, if you're thinking about a pumped system, you do definitly want to insulate the loop. :) (A thermosiphon system depends on some heat loss to drive the circulation.) I don't have numbers, but if the loop is well insulated, my guess is not very much heat is lost.Besides insulation, you can also reduce losses by adding a thermostat, so the circulator only runs when the return water temperature falls below your specified threshold, and/or a timer, so the loop only runs when people are likely to need quick hot water. Of course, both of these will increase the cost and complexity of the system
Uncle,
My thermosiphoned system is insulated (supply and return) except for the last stretch headed back into the tank. Several online sources said that the little bit of temp differential would help assure flow. Made sense at the time.I work at home, so a timer wouldn't be appropriate. Just seems like the thermo system makes the WH work harder and use more overall energy
at the savings of some water (I have a well and pump, so that's really trade off.)That said, the instant hot water throughout the house sure is nice, kinda like magic.Todd
>> My thermosiphoned system is insulated ...Ah, I didn't understand from your post that you already have a system in place.>> ... the little bit of temp differential would help assure flow.
>> Made sense at the time.Still does. The density of the water varies inversely with the temperature, and it's the variation in the density that drives the flow. Really good insulation would mean no heat loss, therefore no tempearture difference, therefore no density difference, therefore no flow.I don't know how good the insulation has to get to stop the flow, and there's clearly no point in using more heat than you really need to drive the siphon. You could experiment with that. Add insulation to the uninsulated stretch until it's all insulated or the hot water at the most distant faucet is not as hot as you'd like, whichever comes first. I would do this in summer, or at least not make the insulation permanent until you've been through a summer. It's easy to imagine a fully insulated loop working OK when the room with the WH is cool and then stalling in the summer when it can't lose enough heat to drive the circulation.>> ... makes the WH work harder ...Absolutely. It costs something to move the water. The pumped systems take power to run the pump. The thermosiphon systems take (some kind of) power to reheat the water. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.All the numbers you need to calculate the cost are easily available, except one, and that's the flow rate. You can measure the temperature drop between the outgoing and return water. You can calculate the volume, and therefore the weight, of the water in the loop. There are noninvasive ways of measuring the flow, but I don't know any of the details, or even if they work at thermosiphon flow rates. With weight, temperature drop, and flow, you can calculate the heat loss in BTU, and from there it's a small step to KWH.>> ... instant hot water throughout the house sure is nice, kinda like magic.And to my mind, that's the real benefit, not the water you save.
Uncle,
You are right about goofing around with the insulation. I didn't do that...what I did was to shut the ball valve down to reduce the flow. Have no idea what $$ difference it made and am way too lazy (and ignorant in such matters) to try and calculate BTU's!Todd
yur welcome...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I think the pump is probably coming off as soon as I can get back over there._______________________________________________________________
I just want you to feel you are doing well. I hate for people to die embarrassed. - Fezzik the giant
Agree with BossHog: The tie in to the cold water supply entering the cold side of the heater is fine, but it should have two check valves, one on the cold water line and one on the discharge side of the circulator. Without the check valve on the cold line you will have a hot feed to the to the nearest fixture on the cold line, hope this helps, lots of luck.
......................................
"If all else fails, read the directions"
I hadn't thought about the check on the cold line, makes sense, although cold water at the nearest tap is cold._______________________________________________________________
I just want you to feel you are doing well. I hate for people to die embarrassed. - Fezzik the giant
note that...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Have to stick with my original post. If you have a fixture thats before the problem that runs cold, how close to the circulator is it tapped in?, the distance may explain why you don't have hot water at that fixture. Best that I can do without seeing your actual piping, put a check valve in! Luck.
Thanks to all, turned out integral check valve in pump unit not working. Now have check valve on both the recirc line and to prevent backfeed on the cold water line.
Hot showers, and all are happy!
Thanks again._______________________________________________________________
I just want you to feel you are doing well. I hate for people to die embarrassed. - Fezzik the giant
Dang! You mean I was actually right for once ???I'm gonna have to wriet this no the calendar.(-:
What do chickens think WE taste like?
It was bound to happen sooner or later. :=)_______________________________________________________________
I just want you to feel you are doing well. I hate for people to die embarrassed. - Fezzik the giant
Heck -- I had one installed last year and it is great - costs $12 a year to run and is supposed to save $150-250 a year. Pump is connected to the out bound on the HW heater & at the farthest sink you have a jumper beneath the faucet that jumps from the hot side to the cold side so it can circulate -- mine is on a timer and only runs when the thermostat at the HW heater says to send hot water -- check grudflos (sp?) web site -- good luck Dudley