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Are you a homeowner or a contractor?
John Svenson, builder, remodeler, NE Ohio
I'm a homeowner, and I didn't know if this was a situation like a restaurant, where employers pay very little, expecting that the staff will receive tips.Janet
Lunch is nice. I own my company and I dont think I ever got a tip.
I did get a gift basket once for a bathroom we did around Christmas.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
It happens.
But supposed to? No.
I can imagine a scenario where it would be good - say if they are doing interior work and not only doing it well, but also showing special care to respect your space and place and belongings, not tracking a mess around and all that.
Soft drinks and cookies can go a long ways too.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
It is appropriate but not necessary.
Tip them before they are done and you might be amazed at what the affirmation will get you.
No. Never. Don't tip anyone involved in the construction of your house. Tipping is the bane of service industries where it has spread to include anyone who is simply doing their job. Negotiating prices and contracts is difficult enough without adding peoples expectation that they will be tipped too. If I had someone on my sites angling for a tip, they would leave with my bootmark on their pants.
I've been wanting to discuss the industry in general, but I'll save it for a new thread.Janet
It's your thread. Discuss anything that you feel like discussing.
So how bout the remodeler that recieves a 50" HDTV as a tip?
Should he give it back?
Declare it on his income tax?
let each crew member that worked on the house watch the TV for 1 week?
TV's, cookies, beer - those are all somehow different than a cash tip. We give our local librarians a gift basket at Christmas, but they don't expect 5 bucks for ordering a book I want to read. I wish tips had never been thought up.
TV's, cookies, beer - those are all somehow different than a cash tip.
only in your mind.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
"only in your mind."
You can't see the difference between a homeowner coming out with some cold beers and tipping? Try asking your wife if it's ok if you just give her cash on your anniversary.
You can't see the difference between a homeowner coming out with some cold beers and tipping?
nope.
people give cash or beer's cause it makes them feel good.
I've also had people tell me "instead of the usual beer" ... "I'll give the crew cash ... don't want to encourage drinking"
people who hand out cash also usually add something about buying the kids something or taking the wife out to dinner.
I'm usually not married to my customers ...
so mostly they don't know what size I wear or if I prefer silver to gold.
so thinking cash is OK from them.
and like Pif ... I've received ... and have never expected.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Ahh for the good old days when a simple...bl..
ah, nevermind.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
The world of people goes up and
down and people go up and down with
their world; warriors have no business
following the ups and downs of their
fellow men.
"I've also had people tell me "instead of the usual beer" ... "I'll give the crew cash ... don't want to encourage drinking"
Too bad that's not a very common attitude here. We had a new sergeant posted to our local RCMP detachment while back. She was horrified by the number of drunk drivers and decided to crack down. The local cells were soon full and her officers spent most of their time transferring the overflow into the city. She lasted two years before it all was too much for her. Sooke drunks 1, RCMP 0.
You're kidding.Arresting drunks is considered overzealous law enforcement?Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean.John Svenson, builder, remodeler, NE Ohio
No, no. She just under-estimated the extent of the problem. The culture of alcohol and cars is so ingrained here. Everyone drives drunk. It's awful.
Wow...Thanks for clarifying.John Svenson, builder, remodeler, NE Ohio
Sooke is a special case.
Great!
Now you tell me.
Spent a night or two at Sooke Harbour House on the honeymoon.
But then again, having gone to Victoria to see the Cougars (WHL) play against the Rockets, I know fom personal experience how much you all like to drink. :D
I really did have a problem following the puck with my eyes that night for some reason.
Impossible is an opinion.
Sooke Harbour House? Glad you enjoyed it. They have a pretty amazing chef!
There is a veneer of gentility that places like Harbour House, Point-No-Point and the local art galleries lay on for the tourists, but underneath Sooke is really a resource town. Nothing wrong with that. It makes for an honest, no nonsense kind of place. It would be nice if they didn't drink and drive so much, but the winding road takes care of most of them pretty quickly.
The painters are working on the outside of the house now, and I can't help wondering:How do you men answer the call of nature when you're on a job? Nobody has asked to use our bathrooms, and the shrubs are still alive.Janet
Paint buckets.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_oEx4-Mc4
The world of people goes up and
down and people go up and down with
their world; warriors have no business
following the ups and downs of their
fellow men.
Seriously? Is the crew told "don't bother the customers"? Because I have told them that I'm leaving the front door unlocked so they can use the fridge, microwave, bathroom, etc. I want them to use the bathroom--but not nearly as much as I want them to wash their hands afterwards. Not much expectation of that, though. (I used to order supplies for the office, and *never* had to replenish the soap in the men's room.)Janet
Well, it depends on the crew.
I personally have trained my body to evacuate before I leave MY house, I try to NEVER use a customer's bathroom, unless it is a dire emergency, and in that case I'd head off site to a gas station or qwickie-mart.
Now, going out and watering a tree is still gonna happen, but thats me. Some sites there is just isn't a "safe" tree, so again, I'd sooner find an empty gatoraide jug , vs. useing the home owner's restroom.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_oEx4-Mc4
The world of people goes up and
down and people go up and down with
their world; warriors have no business
following the ups and downs of their
fellow men.
the shrubs are still alive.
I can't recall ever using a client's bathroom to pee when my work was outside, whether an invitation is offered or not. There's always a semi-private spot somewhere, or a likely container which can be held up behind a partially closed truck door.
As gracious as it is of you to leave your house open, it's not a wise idea. On outside jobs I've always told clients who offer, to lock their homes when they leave for work or errands.
I don't want the responsibility of protecting their homes nor the possible problems which might come my way if they have a burglary sometime later.
Edit: Something else that many women don't understand...there's a necessary change in attitude required, going into someone's home when working outside on a construction job.
It's not an adjustment that most of us make easily so I prefer not to enter that environment. Even after work is done for the day, I feel much more comfortable speaking with the clients outside.
I pretty sure that I've offended several people, over the years, by refusing their hospitality but that's the only way I know of to keep things in proper perspective.
Edited 9/17/2008 3:45 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
I don't want our guys (or me for that matter) going inside to use the restroom when the work is outside. Between mud, dust, potential liability, unhygienic bathroom behavior, etc., it's much better left outside.When we're remodeling their kitchen, that's one thing, but if we're building a deck we will either get a porta-john, or drive to the nearest convenience store.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
"So how bout the remodeler that recieves a 50" HDTV as a tip?"
Happened to me a week & a half ago. Th homeowners did not call it a tip, but rather "a gift from the heart".
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
As we all know , tips come few and far between for the tradesperson. But when they come they are welcome and usually deserved. To take that away seems miserly. What's your point?
I can't understand why anyone would expect extra money for doing a good job. And that's my point.
Tips may have started in the service industry to reward exceptional service, but that isn't at all the case now. I don't see why I should pay a waiter to wait on me, and I hire my trades because they do a good job - why should I tip them? Should they tip me for being a good GC?
I'm not at all against showing appreciation with some gift, but tipping is a slippery slope that ends with people expecting the gratuity and soon enough, like waiters, relying on it. That the OP had to ask about tipping has me worried.
I don't see why I should pay a waiter to wait on me,
Because tipping is built into the restaurant business. It's a long established custom.
Waiters and waitresses are legally paid less than minimum wage as a means of keeping the price of individually prepared meals reasonable and as a strong incentive for them to make the meal as pleasant as possible, thereby earning tips.
Anyone who eats at a place which has a wait staff attending them should understand that tipping isn't optional, it's an obligation. The only choice is the percentage of the check.
If you object to tipping, you can eat at places where you carry your own food to your table.
I often eat lunch at buffet style soup&salad places because I like to see and select my food and because I don't have to wait for the kitchen to prepare my meal. Even then I usually leave a dollar for the person who busses my dishes.
Edited 9/10/2008 11:20 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
I agree with you entirely, but I'd hate to see a similar situation come into play in other industries.
I do a lot of work at a nearby resort and see how the wait staff rely on the extra money. Because they share tips, it doesn't really reflect on their individual service, it is more a form of profit sharing based on the restaurant's volume of business.
What is more interesting to watch is the effect of tipping on the maintenance staff. They employ someone to split and deliver firewood to the 24 cabins. On occasion guests will leave some money or a couple of beers in the wood box. Over time "Bob" began to take longer to deliver the wood because he was spending more time ingratiating himself to any guests he happened to meet in the hopes of getting a good tip when they checked out. He also began complaining that he needed to stop his other work and begin the wood earlier because it was taking longer.
You can see there this is going. The Owner's options are to tell Bob to hurry up and stop worrying about his tips, or say fine from now on your raises come in the form of any tips you can extract from guests.
My other complaint about tips is that you never know where you stand in a relationship with someone then a tip is involved. Who wants to talk to a seemingly friendly wood guy who may only be giving you the time of day in the hopes of a fiver?
I don't stay at resorts but I can appreciate how tipping could get in the way of the normal flow of work in such businesses.
I'd say that "Bob" should be given a specific amount of time to do the firewood chore, just before his lunch break or quitting time. Let him decide how much of his own time he wants to give to working the guests for tips.
There will always be situations when it's difficult to know if a tip is expected or deserved. My remedy is to ask the owner/manager of the business what is customary, when I'm not sure.
In Europe the tip is automatically added to the bill, which I also find annoying. If you have to pay it no matter what, why not just include it in the list price? It makes no sense to me.
As someone who once worked as a waitress I have to say that tips are motivators for better service. Without tips I made less than half minimum wage at the time. I'm usually a good tipper, unless the service is REALLY bad.
My grandfather used to leave 2 pennies when he got bad service to let them know that he didn't forget the tip, they just didn't earn it. I which I had his chutzpah.
In Europe the tip is automatically added to the bill, which I also find annoying. If you have to pay it no matter what, why not just include it in the list price? It makes no sense to me.
I believe the sense of it is, that those who would normally tip are informed that the tip has been included, and that those who don't normally tip get the message that tipping is customary and obligatory.
I have a firm belief that you can tip anyone, but never be obligated to do so. I don't feel obligated to tip any waiter, if they are not worthy of being tipped then they should find a new business to be in. In a more sensible world they would be paid a wage just the same as everyone else then tipping wouldn't be such an issue, rather a sign of respect as I believe it is.I've been tipped by customers, I've tipped all sorts of professions, and I've given discounts to clients for being exceptional to work with. I am not rich because of it but I am happy.gk
I don't feel obligated to tip any waiter, if they are not worthy of being tipped then they should find a new business to be in. In a more sensible world they would be paid a wage just the same as everyone
As previously noted by a former waitress, the restaurant business is allowed, by law, to pay substantially less than minimum wage to its wait staff. This is allowed because a. it's anticipated that they will receive much more than minimum wage in tips and b. to help restaurants keep the price of individually prepared meals relatively low.
When you participate in a part of the economy which includes the custom of tipping as a means to assure good service, you are obligated to tip the person who waits on you, as long as they fulfill the minimum level of courteous, prompt service. Even promptness isn't guaranteed during very busy serving times.
If we decide that we don't want or can't afford to tip in eating places where it is customary to do so, then we have numerous other choices regarding where and how we feed ourselves.
"In a more sensible world"...we would all treat each other with love and respect at all times, finding joy in serving each others' needs and desires in every moment.
Until that great day comes about, it will be necessary to offer incentives to make sure that certain types of food service jobs are done with courtesy, even under the stress of trying to keep four or five groups of people happy and content at the same time.
Edited 9/10/2008 4:58 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
I suppose I just look at tipping as I do anything I do. I make a personal stance towards the direction I believe is right. I tip graciously for excellent service and return as a customer, which is what they want. For poor service I do not tip and do not return. Mediocrity (which is actually rare in the waiting field) is given a mediocre tip of 10%. I have been a waiter and it is an easy job. Those with good personalities can make more money than you or I just being a good waiter. Obvious to you now, I have a poor personality for waiting. I didn't make a lot of money so I became a carpenter. No tips but at least wood doesn't complain.I heard what you said the first time, I just don't agree with it. As I said already, I will tip anyone if they deserve it. In general, I usually just make up my own rules in life. Sometimes I build without permits; I usually drive 10% over the speed limit; I don't support unions but I try to only buy American (or European); I don't watch g-a-y movies or sitcoms; and I may or may not have unregistered firearms. BTW: I am not a Republican or a Dem or other.Better stop there, getting a bit off the OP, don't want a tavern brawl in public.gk
I tip graciously for excellent service and return as a customer, which is what they want. For poor service I do not tip and do not return. Mediocrity (which is actually rare in the waiting field) is given a mediocre tip of 10%.
I don't see anything to disagree with there.
Having worked in coffee shops and restaurants in my younger days, as a busboy, dishwasher and short order cook, I learned how hard the wait staff works to make meager tips. It's only in the better quality restuarants where tips are assured and relatively generous.
Most people don't understand the economics of the food service business or how ridiculously low the wages are for wait staffers. So when this topic comes up, my past association with, and appreciation of hard working waitresses reminds me to explain their wage situation and why tipping is required.
It is sad that so many people do not understand the concept. Like said before most operations have a tip sharing setup to cover the bus staff and maybe even cooks. I have a little problem with the sharing concept. I have had some who will make you feel like a king (or queen) and really provide excellent cheerful service makeing the dining experience special.
Then watch some other staff performing like the soup n*** in Seinfeld. Hurts to see them sharing. In Europe the service is usually added in and some almost take offence if you tip too much over and above. Common practice in Germany is to leave the coin change from the check (called Trink Geld, drink money losely translated) for the server.
In college I worked at a bar that did lunch, I used to clean up on tips from little old ladies. If it was not for the sharing some staff would really be making money. I have watched in some moderate level restaurants (Carrabas, Olive Garden) where one may have six tables with tabs of $100+/hour). If all did 15-20% it would be $90-120 in tips.
I usually do a little extra if we only get water to drink and base the tip on any pre-coupon or discount offered. Usually only do 10% on buffet if the do good job keeping drink filled and dead plates removed.For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
If it was not for the sharing some staff would really be making money.
I don't agree with tip sharing either. It's supposed to make it possible for the restaurant to run more informally and without potential favoritism in assignments. But the end result is that the incentive to provide high quality service is lessened.
The origins of tip sharing come from earlier times when waiters were required to "pay" their assigned busboy a specific sum per shift, in cash. The best paying job I ever had in food service was as a busboy working in a high end restaurant which had that arrangement.
Of course that was an early work experience when I had yet to establish a career path, so I wouldn't say it was a great job, just one which showed me that there were tolerable ways to earn a living near the bottom of the ladder.
"the restaurant business is allowed, by law, to pay substantially less than minimum wage to its wait staff"
Isn't it incredible that this situation has been allowed to develop? Some weeks during November when it rains, the resort restaurant has only two or three customers a day. Luckily the wait staff have quite a good basic wage.
Can you imagine if carpenters made minimum wage and could maybe take home more if the customers thought they did a good job?
Imagine if presidents and congressmen made minimum wage and maybe could take home more, if they did a good job...Imagine if police and firemen made minimum wage and maybe could take home more, if they did a good job...Imagine if doctors, accountants, engineers, you name it... made minimum wage and maybe could take home more, if they did a good job...
Signed: Bubba Hussein Obamalama.
Bananafana-bo-bama
Fe-fi-fofama
Bamalaama
What a fool believes he sees
No wise man has the power, to reason away
Click here for access to the Woodshed Tavern
I think you may be on to something. Lets get Piffin or Sphere to try it out. They bid the job at seven bucks an hour and it's up to the client to tip them more if they think it is warranted.
I think you saw the wrong 'something' in my post.My point is that I think that arrangement sucks.But... If it is good enough for a waitress, it is good enough for the POTUS. If it is not good enough for the POTUS, it is not good enough for a waitress.No one, not even a waiter/waitress should have to live with that kind of a situation. The entire restaurant thing is an artificial construct. Charging less, to attract more customers, but taking the cost for that move, out of the employee's paycheck... Became acceptable practice in the restaurant business a long time ago.There is a LOT of moaning in here, about how 'illegals' undermine the financial structure of the construction business. The restaurant business is a good example of just where the construction business is headed, if it is allowed to become acceptable practice.It should never have become acceptable practice in the restaurant business either. People should be paid a wage that they deserve. Not have to depend on the largesse of fickle customers.Charge enough for the meal, to be able to pay the staff.It is nice to give some kind of recognition of good service/work. As in, it would be nice if the OP of this thread gave the painters coffee and donuts on their last morning there, if they have been doing a good job.But it should not be expected. And it sure as hell should not be part of the wage...IMO It foments a caste system. It is the modern equivalency to slavery. You picks mo cotton, you gets mo grits, and less lashes from the massuh...Tipping should be a way of saying thank you. Not a way to keep the servants in their places.
Signed: Bubba Hussein Obamalama.
Bananafana-bo-bama
Fe-fi-fofama
Bamalaama
What a fool believes he sees
No wise man has the power, to reason away
Click here for access to the Woodshed Tavern
I got your something, and agree with everything you said in your reply. I was just trying to be funny. Something that I am singularly unsuccessful at over the internet. Maybe I'll have to learn all those emotecons. :)
That's why I use the emoticons, even though many here consider them "ghey".They are a tool.Would you use a hammer to dig a hole when you have a gardening adze available and within reach ?Why ridicule and ignore a tool that helps you to communicate better ?=0)
Signed: Bubba Hussein Obamalama.
Bananafana-bo-bama
Fe-fi-fofama
Bamalaama
What a fool believes he sees
No wise man has the power, to reason away
Click here for access to the Woodshed Tavern
No. I would not use my hammer to dig a hole mainly because it's only three weeks old, titanium and cost $125 f'ing bucks. :p
In order to guarantee wait staffers a fair wage, our government has to become more pro labor in it's law making and enforcement.
Considering that a great majority of our citizens earn their living as wage earning or salaried employees, one would think that wouldn't be difficult to do. Minimum wage should be a living wage, right?
But the unheard shout of the middle class to minimum wage earners is, "the status quo suits me just fine" and "you should be motivated by low wages to seek a better education and corresponding higher pay".
This presumptuous, self serving thinking ignores the plight of those who aren't able to rise above the level of minimum wage jobs.
I know men who work two minimum wage jobs, to keep their families together. Eighty hours over seven days.
Middle class prosperity is partially dependent on those low wages, as it is on low cost products made by oppressed people in other parts of the world as well.
So who among us, we of the middle class, is going to step forward and reject the status quo in favor of a system which will cause our standard of living to decrease?
Or are there other solutions to a fairer share of the world's economic prosperity for all?
Edited 9/12/2008 9:05 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Well said, and good point.I would offer that there must be SOME interest in the issue already, or there would be no such thing as a federal minimum wage...
Signed: Bubba Hussein Obamalama.
Bananafana-bo-bama
Fe-fi-fofama
Bamalaama
What a fool believes he sees
No wise man has the power, to reason away
Click here for access to the Woodshed Tavern
Some would say that our form of minimum wage allows legalized oppression of the ignorant. But there are other, equally valid or invalid, points of view on that topic as well.
There are a lot of problems with the way our government and capitalism work together, good for many hours and pages of discussion.
Honestly, I'd like to see a national debate on just that subject, among our elected officials and other qualified people. The real nuts and bolts of it all. Get all the special interests completely out of their respective closets and let the chips fall where they may.
On a related note, I've been told that on the East coast you're expected to tip the lumber yard employee if he helps you load your vehicle or collect your purchases. True?
I don't get what you are saying whatesoever.I have known a lot of waitresses who specifically choose the job and LIKE doing it BECAUSE of the big money they can make.Taking that job is a CHOICE just like any other one.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Some weeks during November when it rains, the resort restaurant has only two or three customers a day. Luckily the wait staff have quite a good basic wage.
You're talking about a resort in Canada, right? I suspect that Canadian labor laws may be more favorable to the employees than in the U.S.
The reason behind the U.S. law fits quite well into exactly the situation you've described. When there are few diners, the lack of revenue for the restaurant is partly absorbed by the lower wages which, in turn, fits the nearly zero work load.
When there are many diners, the incentive for the wait staff to shift into high gear while keeping a positive attitude about it is clearly present in the potential for high earnings from tips.
I'm not trying to justify the reasoning, just making the point that the price of individually prepared meals is partly a reflection of the low wages paid to wait staffers.
Without low wages the price for meals would necessarily rise twenty-five percent or more while the quality of service would surely go down.
One anecdote: I was driving through a resort area in the Catskills one Saturday morning when I saw a young man wearing a waiters uniform, hitchhiking, so I stopped.
On the short trip to the hotel where he was working a big weekend I asked him if he was a member of the local hotel workers union and how much it paid.
He gave me the basic wage and benefit package which was just slightly over the minimum wage, plus health insurance for full time workers. As only about twenty percent of the wait staff worked full time the health insurance was a joke.
Then he told me that his union membership was just one piece in the work puzzle. He said that he also had to kick back half his wages to the restaurant manager in order to get hired and keep his job, even though he only worked summers and on busy weekends.
So he was completely reliant for his income on the generousity of the vacationers who came to that resort.
As he was a Puerto Rican immigrant without much formal education his job prospects were very limited. Of course this was true for all the other waiters as well. That's why it was possible for the manager to intimidate them into paying him off.
I asked him if he'd be willing to go to court to stop this robbery. He said he had too much to lose, possibly his life.
Considering that all Puerto Ricans can enter the U.S. legally, it makes me wonder how badly some of the illegals are being treated here.
Edited 9/11/2008 3:02 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
"you are obligated to tip the person who waits on you,"
no you're not.
at least I'm not.
I bartended and managed bar's for 8 years ... pretty sure I know the rules.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
You want be right, take one remark out of context and refute it.
sorry ...
next time I'll want to be wrong.
promise.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Same here. There have been waiters/waitresses that I have not only not5 tipped, but have sought out the manager to complain to about. There have been others who have been so god as to get a 30-40% tip. I have relatives in these positions too, who are professionals at it, and they dispise the kind of establishment where tips are shared among all the staff. That system is counterproductive.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"dispise the kind of establishment where tips are shared among all the staff. "
But the waitress has an obligation to share the tip with others on the staff. When I cocktailed, we always tipped our bartenders a percentage of our take - they were helping us to acheive our own tips. Likewise, had it been a food establishment I wouldn't be surprised or despise it if I was tipping the staff that made the preparation and presentation of that food possible.
as an exbartender I can say it was our job to help the good waitstaff make us all more money ...
and to make the bad waitstaff cry and quit.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
"why anyone would expect extra money for doing a good job. And that's my point."Expected tips is not what this OP is about here. She is considering gifting for above and beyond, isn't she? Maybe I'm wrong. I have never seen a painter EXPECT a tip, not any other tradesman.But most I know that are tipped show their appreciation.I have been given unexpected and un-promised bonuses over the years totally in excess of $25K ( and reported and paid income taxes, if anyone is wondering) and I have paid out a good fifteen grand in un-promised bonus pay and tips to subs and drivers and delivery people.Giving to those who perform above and beyond or consistently with loyalty advances the cause, welds people together in advance of a goal, and generally keeps the wheels turning smoothly.On the other hand, I can agree with you when it comes to EXPECTED bonuses or tips. I have seen outfits where for instance, the Christmas bonus gets to be expected by everyone on staff and then they get to comparing "How much did you get..." and the whole idea loses its effectiveness and can even breed indifference or petty jealousies.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I wonder why he hypothetically put you an I in the same boat?
Any way, your turn to row (G)Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
The world of people goes up and
down and people go up and down with
their world; warriors have no business
following the ups and downs of their
fellow men.
But I've only got one oar in the water!I was wondering the same thing.Hey, I got a lead the other day on a good glazing putty that works well but sets up faster for restoration and repair work. wrote it down - in the truck right now, but will do a thread on it in the next couple days.
Watch for it.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Will do.
Hey I counted the lites I have to R & R on this job, I may have missed a few but by my reckoning, it's 2,812 individual lites.
Aye carumba.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
The world of people goes up and
down and people go up and down with
their world; warriors have no business
following the ups and downs of their
fellow men.
That is 11,248 sides, and at least 22,500 glaziers points.Better you than me.I wonder how many Andy did on his house.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Using my Azek glass stop method, no points. BUT a boat load of SS 23ga pins. At least 4 per 8" stop, 5 for 12".Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
The world of people goes up and
down and people go up and down with
their world; warriors have no business
following the ups and downs of their
fellow men.
Using my Azek glass stop method...
What's that? Was it discussed before? Got a link?
Thanks.
Yeah, I did a thread that flopped in General Disc. called "Simple Sash" lemme see if I can advance search it, but my comp is running way slow , weather messing with my satellite speed.
If I don;t post back with an edit, go advance search, from me, to anyone, about less than 2 months ago, called simple sash, in General or consrtechniques.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
The world of people goes up and
down and people go up and down with
their world; warriors have no business
following the ups and downs of their
fellow men.
Got it:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=108631.1
Thanks.
"I wonder why he hypothetically put you an I in the same boat?"
"He was not in the least like me, really; yet, as we stood... side by side, with our dark heads together and our backs to the door, anyone bold enough to open it stealthily would have been treated to the uncanny sight of a double captain busy talking in whispers to his other self."
Joseph Conrad
Exactly.On all counts.
Signed: Bubba Hussein Obamalama.
Bananafana-bo-bama
Fe-fi-fofama
Bamalaama
What a fool believes he sees
No wise man has the power, to reason away
Click here for access to the Woodshed Tavern
"I can't understand why anyone would expect extra money for doing a good job. And that's my point. "
you are the only one who said anything about "expecting".
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Tipping starts out just like giving your dog a treat every morning. Soon it is waiting for the treat. Contractors don't expect tips. But if they become common they will be expecting them - just as they do in other service industries. I thought that was a simple, fairly non-contentious point.
With all I have gotten, I never looked for or expected it. It is simply a reward for excellence and it encourages the same.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'm sure you don't realize this, but waiters and waitresses get taxed for their tips based on their SALES.
So whether you tip, or not, your server STILL has to pay taxes on it.
(Also, they don't get to deduct what they tipout to the kitchen, hostess, busser, and bar.)
>>> Fishrite, spending more time at the nice people's table where she will hopefully get tipped enough to cover her taxes on the sale and avoiding the crabby old coot in the corner since he's not going to tip anyway. >>>
"Everyday we learn something new. Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. It doesn't have to be an "A" the next day, but let's hope it improves." 08/27/08
Matt Garcia 1986-2008 22 yo Fairfield City Council Member, shot 09/01/08 RIP
About the only tip they will get is, "Don't spend your $9/hr. all in one place!"
If they did a great job I think it would make their week to get a tip.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Your not supposed to tip the painters but if you feel that they did something extra/special then go ahead and show some gesture that lets them know that you appreciate the hard work.
Doesn't have to be in the form of cash either. We just recently finished a two million dollar house. We'd see the homeowners on a regular bases, never said anything other then a nod or a small hi, but we never could tell if they were happy with what they were seeing or what. Our boss would tell us that they were ecstatic over the place but you'd think the HO'ers would maybe say it to the men that were actually doing the work! I would.
I did see a few e-mails that they sent to the boss and they did go on and on about the place but you'd never know it to see them.
My point in this is that if you think the painters are doing a good job then let them know it, cold pop, snacks, if its a great job then cold beer! but what ever it is let them know it. The gesture goes a long way, and it doesn't have to be anything expensive.
But if you're just planning on giving them a tip because you think they should get it based on their wages, not on their performance then I wouldn't. They hired on to do a job for X-amount, that's their problem if the pay isn't what some would call high paying.
Doug
Ive never recieved a tip in 30 years of work.
I always thought it was odd that a waitress expects it .
We were at a very expensive place to eat on vacation and the whole show that night was a server getting stiffed on loss of a tip. It ruined the experience . Weve had a better time at a Dairy Queen. By the time the dinner was over we were hoping the server would just commit suicide . The world would be a happier place .
That kind of thought isnt present in the trades. They dont expect a tip at all.
Tim
"I always thought it was odd that a waitress expects it . "
that's code for "cheap".
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I'll tip guys who are working alone doing what should be a two-man job, or somebody who goes out of their way to get it right. Instead of just handing them money I'll usually say "Let me buy your dinner" or something like that along with a sincere thank you for their work.