…that’s 26′ high?
That’s the situation in my church, where we have track lights to supplement the main chandeliers. I found a device called Vac-A-Light which “has a vacuum cylinder that is activated via a rod in the in the light bulb changer handle. Pulling down on the rod when the changer head makes contact with the bulb creates a vacuum and holds the bulb in place while you unscrew it.” This sounds like it might do the trick, but before we spend $160.00 on this, I’d like to know if anyone has used it, or if another option or device can be suggested.
In the past we’ve used an extension ladder against the ceiling, but it’s not very secure, and understandably no one volunteers to do this. Once we even rented a scissor lift, but that was expensinve and we had to remove and replace some of the pews. There’s 30 bulbs in all, and we currently have four that are out. As you can see, there is minimal clearance between the can and the bulb, so I don’t believe the kind of bulb changer with the fingers that go around the outside of the bulb will work.
Thanks in advance.
Edited 4/24/2006 8:57 pm ET by OverKnight
Replies
Cheaper version, don't know anything else about it. The tele-pole part is about $20.
http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1814411
Kit http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1814410
Edited 4/24/2006 9:19 pm ET by MarkH
Scaffolding. 26 ft high, that's what, 5 lifts? Relatively easy to work around the pews.
I'll rent it to you cheap. Cash only.
View Image
Always bragging about your fabrication skills...
I don't have any suggestions for how to easily change the bulb, but you may want to consider replacing them with long life bulbs. In the picture it looks like a PAR lamp; you can get LED PAR lamps nowadays that have a life span of maybe 50,000 hours. Check your local Yellow Pages for a lighting showroom or lighting distributor, they may be able to fix you up with something.
There are also CFL par lights, but they can't be dimmed as far as I know.
Thanks, Mark. I had seen the changer from ACE, but I wondered what happened once the bulb was screwed back in; would the six suction cups release without putting too much force on the bulb and fixture?
I don't know, but I suspect it would release fairly easy.
Thanks, Stuart. I believe they are PAR-38 bulbs. Can the LED bulbs be dimmed?
To tell the truth, I'm not sure if you can get dimmable LED lamps for that kind of fixture or not...they do make dimmable LED lamps, but I don't know enough about them to tell you for sure just what's entailed; I've read about them in my electrical trade magazines but haven't had the chance to use them anywhere yet. Hopefully you can talk to a local lighting rep that knows more.
The LED's themselves are inherently dimmable. They don't care if you do it with current, voltage, or duty cycle. I doubt that there's much to the 120 VAC version that would have trouble with a dimmer, they're not complex like flourescents. So, try one and see what happens.
Definitely avoid CFL's in those fixtures. They'll get hot and not last as long as conventional incandescents. I've had that happen.
As for getting up there, a good ladder and scaffold company will be able to find you some rolling scaffold that'll straddle the seating. You can probably buy it for the cost of 6-8 rentals of the Genie lift.
-- J.S.
buy a 24' step ladder. one guy climbs the ladder and grabs the bulb. the rest of the congregation turns the ladder until light bulb is lose. guy comes down , another guy with a new light bulb climbs up. repeat last step in reverse direction until light bulb is tight.
do this with all bulbs.
kinda like the snake handlers you need to show your faith huh ?
I didn't mean to abandon this thread; my son was hospitalized last week.I should have initially posted the link to the bulb changer I was speaking of:
http://www.budgetlighting.com/store/agora.cgi?cart_id=4881370.8305*7_2GU4&page=light_bulb_changer.html
Has anyone seen or used this?I appreciate all of the suggestions. We'd rather stay away from renting anything, simply because of the expense. However, the LED bulbs may be the way to go, especially if they last a long time. Am I correct in thinking that they cost a lot less to run? I don't think the installing a cable setup to lower them will be economically feasible, since there are ten sets of these light fixtures. One of our church members wants to install collar ties, so that a ladder would be easier to position, but some of the more influential members vetoed this idea. Skip, when we do get around to changing them, we do change all of them.Thanks again.
It might make sense to fabricate a sort of temporary collar tie that can be put in place while changing the bulbs.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
Thanks, Dan. I'd thought of clamping something to the top of the ladder that would span the arched beams, but 1) I'd have to reposition it on the ladder at least twice for each of the five beams, and 2) to make it strong enough, I was afraid it would make the top of the ladder so heavy that it would be difficult/unsafe to move. I'm open to suggestions, though.
The problem with the pole things is that you have to be coming at the bulb fairly much straight on, and the spots like yours are usually at a fairly good angle, meaning the pole isn't straight up but is leaning at about a 30-degree angle. You can usually control it well enough to remove the old bulb, but installing the new one can be a trick.
Use the cheap pole and as big a ladder as you can.
I believe the church has a 10' step ladder.
Then put your tallest guy on it.
That may be enough or you can rent a 14-16 foot ladder to get you closer. Cheaper than a lift.
Yup, I'd thought of that too, Dan. They're aimed to light the sanctuary evenly, and I don't want to move them, if I can help it. I don't know how tight the mounts are. I'll find out soon enough.Thanks.
You might want to look at renting a "genie" type of lift.Ie, boom lift.Here is one example.http://www.genielift.com/zb-series/zb-z30n.aspSome have a small footprint and can get into ilses and don't need to remove the pews.If you do go that way you might want to check out hiring someone that has one.They might be fast enough that it would cost less than miniumum rental cost.
Another option is to have the light bars hung from cables, so they can be lowered for changing lights. Expensive in the short run (and may not fit the decor), but could save time/money in the long haul.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
how to change them?
somple ask who ever decided to put them there
Well, since it's in a church maybe someone higher up can help you!)
Jeff
If there is a Psychatrist in the church he can do it by himself.
However the lightbulb has to want to change.
Edited 4/25/2006 11:31 am by booch
you might want to change all the bulbs at the same time
We have the exact same situation in our church. We rent an electric Genie lift that is small and can be wheeled around (see link). It only fits one person and requires outriggers to be set before the stick is extended. Because it can be wheeled around by hand, we can man-handle it up the stairs of the chancel area with the help of a few sheets of plywood for ramping.
If I recall correctly, it costs around 80 or 90 bucks to rent for a day, but delivery and pick up will be 40-60 each way. It is small enough to fit in a pick up or on a utility trailer if the yard you're renting from allows you to pick it up in person.
Since we don't have a huge budget for repairs, we typically go ahead and change every bulb that's in the air while we have the lift (bulbs are cheap compared to the equipment rental and hassle). It would really suck to have another bulb blow out the week after spending the money on the lift.
http://www.genielift.com/ss-series/index.asp
By the way - as alluded to earlier, we tried the pole and suction cup method but found it way awkward and it moved the lights changing the aim.
Edited 4/25/2006 5:03 pm ET by KevinH
I can't resist this (from a Lutheran friend:)
How many Lutherans does it take to change a lightbulb?
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Change?
Fighting Ignorance since 1967
It's taking way longer than we thought
This is most certainly true.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
Work out a deal with the rental company for a cheap regular rental for you to get the genie lift at slow times. Then change everything high up whether it is out or not.
Also, find a longer life bulb option. {PAR lamps, Dimmable R-30 CFL's, Dimmable LEDS ( you need to use electronic low voltage dimmers with these to get good dimming range)}
There are no electrons! It is all made up. Don't believe it.
Electricity is made by GREENIES.
I had forgot about this thread when the other day I came across a site that had LED lights and incandescent.And the incnadenscents where rated for 20,000 hours. Not cheap, but not that expensive when compared with the problems of replacing them.But I don't remember the site.
We've been 'round and 'round with this at my own church. We've changed a few with the $20 pole and the tallest step ladder. It's cumbersome, but do-able. I'd hate to change more than 5 or 6 that way.
In spite of the money, we've pretty much decided that, when we begin to have several failures at one time, i.e. the general life of the 80 or so bulbs is obviously coming to an end - we'll hire it done. Change them all.
Logis is - many of us on the "Board" are self-employed. It would be catastrophic if any one of us were injured trying to do something like this. A Genie lift wouldn't be much use for two reasons. Our pews take up much of the available floor space and they're bolted to the floor. You couldn't get a lift under a great number of the bulbs. To run TWO lifts with a walk board between them, well, you're risking life and limb. Second problem is that our floor slopes, maybe 5 to 8 degrees, but when you run a Genie lift up to 22 feet, the center of gravity changes dramatically. The tip factor would be impossible to overcome.
I'd patiently change them with the tool, from a step ladder, or bite the bullet and hire it done. When you weigh the cost of the bulbs against the cost to set staging and change them, you'll want to have them ALL replaced.
Greg
Here is where I saw the 20k hour bulbs.http://www.smarthome.com/prodindex.asp?catid=603And they also have LED bulbs.And here is the manufactures of the long life bulbs.http://www.aerolights.com/
You might well be able to get rolling scaffold with leveling screws that will straddle the pews. A lot of movie theaters do it that way.
-- J.S.
Rent a Genie Lift if money is a big problem, buy one if it isn't. I went thru the same process at my church in the early eighties. They still use the Genie lift I bought then, and in fact they bought another a few years later when they added a gym across the street. I know there must be a lot more options than there were in 1983, but that was by far the best option for us back then, even at the cost. Genie makes a one man lift that fits thru a standard 3'0" x 6'8" door, can be handled by one stout person, off and on a truck, even up or down stairs, and makes the work go fast and safe.
I also got the package that attached to their one man lifts for straddling church pews. As I recall the lifts themselves came in 18, 24, 30, and 36 foot heights. The pew straddler added about 3-4 feet to the working height of the lift. You add six-seven feet for the person using the lift to get the working height. So the 18 foot lift with a straddler would give a man of average height the ability to work at 27-29 feet.
It worked beautifully at our church. Our sanctuary, choir, pulpit areas were on four different levels. Before we got the Genie, they'd bring an electrical contractor who set up and moved scaffolding for most of 2-3 days and change every light in the building. They spent a lot more time assembling and tearing down scaffolding than anything else, and still it was a dangerous job. They did this once a year. After we got the Genie the maintenace guy would roll it out every couple of weeks, change what needed changing and roll it back in the closet, couple of hours tops.
I am sure there must be other ways to skin that cat, especially after twenty years, but at the time I could never envision a way that was easier and safer, and ultimately in the long run for our church, much cheaper.
jjohn83 is right, we have used them in the past, believe me the 1 man extension lift is the only way to go, rent or contact your local churches to pool funds for renting/buying the lift and do a group relamp, change all the bulbs at once not just the burned out ones.
PS. the brain surgeon that suggested the 1st Genie Articulated Lift doesnt realize that his suggestion weighs over 7 tons on a 4x5 footprint and if your church has a basement, it will be in it. ;-)
Edited 5/2/2006 7:09 pm ET by Bigman
Edited 5/2/2006 7:10 pm ET by Bigman
I am still waiting!And I filled out my profile.
Bill, thanks for the links to the LED lights. John, the LEDs I saw were NOT dimable, and the sites Bill provided made it sound like they were inherently not dimable. Can you provide a link to them? Greg, you raise an excellent point about the safety issue. I don't know what a simple Genie lift would cost, but unfortunately I'm sure it wouldn't be in the budget.So no one has used the light bulb changer in the link I posted? I was hoping to get some feedback, good or bad, before I purchased it. It seems like the best one out there.Thanks again, everyone.
Actually, there's nothing that inherently prevents LED "light bulbs" from being dimmed. To get optimal brightness without setting fire to them they have to be switched on and off rapidly. Just changing the duty cycle would allow them to be dimmed.But apparently the current electronic setup doesn't support dimming.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
I could bring my trained monkey to change them, but he wont work for peanuts.