How do I fasten dishwashers to granite?
Were down to the punchlist and one of the items is fastening the dishwasher to the granite top.
I tried spiking it with my nailgun but the three inch nails just richoceted out. I was hoping that they come though the top and I’d clinch them. That way I’d know the diswasher would never wriggle loose!
So, how do you guys do it?
Bob’s next test date: 12/10/07
Replies
Also, I was incharge of cleaning up the kitchen items. The oven has a membrane on it that won't peel off like normal. It's baked on Texas style! When I peel it, it's leaving a gluey film.
Whats the best cleaner for that film on stainless steel?
Should I take a blow dryer to the film to soften it up?
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
warm the plastic membrane only a little...
paint thinner for the gluey after mess...
heavy glue deposits....
power eraser...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Does the dishwasher have side mount holes so you can mount to cabs instead?
Or epoxy a block to the top if space allows......or my least favorite, silicon mount bracket to granite.
John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
Good question John.
I didn't look to see if there are side hole mounts. I'll look tomorrow.
Even if there aren't side hole mounts, I'll rig some up. I dont have room for a block at the top. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
try your ramset and 2 1/2 pins
Can the clips be moved to the sides? Some manufacturers make side mount kits.
Is there space between the clips and counter? try cutting a piece of wood that goes from cab to cab and fasten to the cabs and the clip
Some people adhere wood pieces to the top and screw to that if there is room
I would be hesitant to screw anything directly to the top
What color shots should I use for granite? I'm thinking red. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Me, I'd go right to the purple loads and if it blows through the first side, you can always try red on the other side or use the proper size nut and bolt for the hole the load created.Don't forget lock washers for the vibration
Barry E-Remodeler
purple...
treat it like NYC concrete.....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"treat it like NYC concrete....."What does that mean? Watch out so you don't hit the bodies of mob informants while you're drilling?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
nothing harder than a concrete corner stone in NYC...
Jim could just bed the thing in PL and call it good....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Maybe I'll double shoot the reds and countersink them a bit.
We were a bit hesitant to drill and mount direct to the top too. I had visions of a big chunk flying out of the edge. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I would be hesitant to screw anything directly to the top
Why? I'm not trying to be sarcastic.
Most people get to worried about granite tops and how fragile they are. A lot has to do on type of granite but for the most part they're pretty tough, especially once they're in place.
Drilling a hole in them isn't really all that dangerous or scary, especially after you've done it a few dozen times.
Edited 4/15/2008 10:32 pm ET by CAGIV
Nothing to be scared of, just don't like taking a chance of having to buy a client a new top on my dimeAs you know granite have fissures and veins that might be close to where you drill and cause blowouts. Anchors can add stress because of expansion. It is also near an edge. Vibration from the DW and slamming of the door over time potentially adds more stress. If there's a safer way, why not do it
Barry E-Remodeler
You might not be scared. I'm scared.
Remember, theres a bunch of rough frame carpenters on the end of the drill. They'll have that drilled all the way through and cuss at me because the top is "too soft". Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
As long as they are able to learn from their mistakes, they will do better on the next one.
Barry E-Remodeler
LOL! You don't know my guys! Learn Schmearn! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
next question ...
if the side mount ain't workable.
ok ... even before that ... for future reference.
How much did the granite guy say it'd cost for him to run back out and drill it for ya?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
That's a good question. If the granite guy is anywhere close, he'd probably do it for a beer or nothing. If he's crosstown, no amount of money will get him there for two holes.
We did have the dishwasher onsite when he installed it, and we would have been wise to have him drill those holes when he did the install. He did all the fabbing onsite anyways, so a couple more holes for achors wouldn't have fazed him a bit.
We expected the plumber to fasten it. They normally fasten it but obviously, they don't "normally" do it here in Austin. We've learned a lot about how Austinites work and most of it has been a surprise. For instance, today Frank told me that he had to force the HVAC guy to do the bath vents and metal firestopping.
Ths small stuff is the learning curve for us her in Austin land. We'll be a bit more mentally prepared on the next one. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
one phone call may solve all yer problems ...
ok ... maybe one minor problem.
but that's better than nothing.
I'd call for a price check.
I'm all for having my sub's help me out at punch list time.
sometimes it works ... sometimes it don't.
never hurts to ask though.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Thanks for that very obvious suggestion. I'll have Frank call the guy tomorrow. He'll know his products better than anyone. If he tells us to drill an anchor, I'll feel a lot more confident about it.
I will look tomorrow to side mount it first though. I'm pretty good at boogerin' stuff like that and it sounds simpler overall. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
those hidden side fasteners can be hard to find.
I forget which brand ... but even after reading the directions I had a hell of a time believing it was posible w/o drilling the the box.
then ... took a second look and found after removing a coupla plugs, and removing the weatherstripping ... and removing some trim ... there were the factory punched holes ... that still had to be drilled out!
but ... they picked the location, not me ... so that was gooder.
after reassembly .... it made more sense ... I'd complicated it.
and Bosch(I believe) ... has that strap which can be popped, turned, bent and popped back in. I've seen some straps which are easier to install by locating the DW ... eye the strap ... bend it ... then pull the DW and pop the strap.
screw the strap first ... leave it hang ... then slide the DW back in and pop the strap back into position with a screwdriver pushing down from the top.
otherwise ... the DW gets in the way of screwing in thru the strap holes!
I work with what every they send on the sub jobs ... so can't remember which makes ya do that for an "easier" install.
and some just leave room to drill thru the box and Bang , Done!
that's why I'd see how friendly the granite guy is first!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
This covers a question I asked in the very first post I ever made in this forum. The guy who responded sent me a thin section of corian. I epoxied it to the countertop, drilled plastic sleeves into it, and secured the DW to the added piece with the sleeves. Worked great. No problems removing it for repair when the time came."The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
couldn't you have done the same with wood?
it's under the CT and on top of the DW.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
to Jim Allen
The idea of fastening to the counter is to stop it from tipping forward. What I have done a couple of times ( had nothing to do with granite) was to fasten the rear feet to the floor after sliding it into position. I would partially screw a piece of wood, onto the floor, on either side of each leg and when the unit was in position I would reach under and swing each piece of wood around and on top of the feet . With a stubby screwdriver or small ratchet I would screw home the screw. You could slot the piece of wood and add another screw.
The new dishwashers are awfully low to the floor and you might not be able to even get a hand in now so I think I would make a slotted plate or piece of wood and install them before the unit goes in and then slide the unit in. The rear feet will slide under the plate and all you have to do is fasten the front feet to stop the unit from coming forward.
We used to get very inventive.roger
Edited 4/15/2008 11:27 pm ET by roger g
"...I would make a slotted plate or piece of wood and install them before the unit goes in and then slide the unit in. "Sounds like you're describing a stove anti-tilt bracket.
BruceT
Yes but they didn't have them 20 years ago and when they did it wouldn't fit a d/w plus you would still have to prevent the unit from sliding forward (as to tipping forward)
By fastening the feet securely to the floor it stops the wiggle.
It worked for me back then and maybe things have changed and my way won't work anymore.
Install instructions don't always apply to all situations so you have to try other approaches.roger
The Bosch DW I installed a few weeks ago came with an anti-tip bracket similar to those provided with stoves. I couldn't use it, but even if I had, they recommend anchoring the unit to the CT or cabinets in addition to the anti-tip bracket.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to make it work.roger
what brand dishwasher?
sometimes I resort to reading the directions!
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Directions?
They were all in Spanish. Remember..I'm in Austin now. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Get some little plastic anchors, a drill, a masonry bit, and some silicone.
Drill a hole in the granite sized to the anchor you have, do not use a hammer drill.
squirt some silicone into the hole, pop in the anchor, trim off the part that sticks out, and screw it in place.
The silicone holds the anchor and the screw in place.
Oh yeah, don't go all the way through ;)
Been doing it that way for at least 4 years and haven't had a problem yet.
That said, if the dishwasher has knocks out on the side, it really is easier to just screw to the cabinets.
Edited 4/15/2008 10:32 pm ET by CAGIV
side mount the DW to the cabs.....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I sub out the granite install, and make certain the installer knows ahead of time that a dishwasher needs to be installed. I tell the HO ahead of time that I will not be drilling into their new granite, because with my luck, I'd hit a weak vein and it would shatter. I leave undermount sinks and dishwasher installs to the granite installers. Different installers have different methods.
One installer grooves the granite near the front edge under the CT, the groove filled with epoxy. The mounting screws are threaded into the epoxy.
The company I used a few weeks ago told me to call them back once the DW was installed. Once the DW was in place, they drilled holes in the granite where the mounting tabs were located, filled the holes with plastic anchors, and screwed the tabs down into the anchors.
A year ago I saw the cheesiest method. They used shims to wedge it in place. This was done after I left, and the HO doesn't seem to mind. Not the ideal situ, though.
Some DWs (the Bosch I installed most recently) has mounting tabs on the side.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
We have just epoxied the metal clips to the underside of granite and not used any blocks.
how do you get the DW out later????
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
We just use a little dab of epoxy on the bracket ant then we have used an old chisel placed between the top and bracket and usually a couple of taps with a hammer will break it loose.
We were thinking about glueing the thing directly too, but then started thinking long term and wondered how the next guy would get it out.
I'm going to figure a way to side mount it, even if I have to jury rig something. I'm scared about finding a vein as mentioned above. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Jim, try Goo Gone, or De Solv It on the sticky stuff... thru bolt the DW, easier to change out later. If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
Update.I pulled the dishwasher out to see what was involved with creating a side mount. Basically, I could easily hook up a tab, but then the problem was: how do I screw the tab into the side, when the dishwasher was in the way.So, after ten more seconds of deep thought, I realized that I could put a screw through the side of the dishwasher tub because I there was an inch or two of the tub outside of the gasket. I put some gold piffin screws in there till I get a couple stainless steel screws. Problem solved: one minute....no granite drilling.The oven was much harder but actually easier in a way. I just went to meet Oldguy for lunch and when I came back Steve was done cleaning it. He basically had to rub the stuff off in little balls using his fingers. This stripped most of the glue and membrane. There is a hint of the glued shadow left and we'll polish that out with stainless steel polish. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
"how do I screw the tab into the side, when the dishwasher was in the way."
that's what I meant when I said some ya have to smash back into place with a big screwdriver for leverage .. usually metal strap into a plastic block.
they always seem to leave that part out of the instructions ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Just about every manufacturer now has side mounts, some also use floor anti-tipping brackets, like the ones you use on a range. Do not attempt to drill the granite, it can be a very expensive mistake, now or later.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Were down to the punchlist....
Therein lies your problem.
The countertop fabricator should have been responsible for drilling and plugging the underside of the countertop to accomodate the DW connection.
Duct tape will do ya though.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Pp, Qq
Theres no way I would drill into a granite top (liability wise). My plumber said he just silicons them in and lets the silicon set over night. I think the granite companies may use an epoxy.
If it doesn't have the side mount holes, on some you can remove the tabs and relocate them to the side. If neither of those are an option, there is a kit available with two part epoxy and two screws with flanges that you fasten to the underside of the counter top.
I wouldn't try to drill into the counter top. But then, I don't want to have to explain to my insurance company why I was doing it in the first place.
Naw man,, just use them framing spikes from the INSIDE of the dishwasher, and go sideways into adjacent cabinet. Then cinch. Nail em up high, maybe you'll hit a drawer also,, and nail it closed.
Sounds like fun,, hope the straps can be moved onto the sides,, keep us posted!
I still say just bed the DW in a half inch of PL...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Silicone acutally! ,,,,hmmmmmm,, started out as a joke,, but,, It WOULD work!
A nice layer plunked up top,, that stuff works miracles. I've hung stuff with silicone.
Its a horse thing!
no... noooo....
the entier DW to be beded.... to the floor...
not the clips or brackets...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Why not do a nice low expansion foam around perimeter?
now there's an image!Its a horse thing!
Foam would make it quieter for sure!Its a horse thing!
around the entier tank and the PL...
sure make it quiet...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
And just think of the hot water savings! So energy effiecient,,
Golly they'll be thanking us for years to come!
hope it's a long lasting unit!
dave
Its a horse thing!
and cake and pie to install...
all that saved labor....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Why not a bunch of duct tape? And you could leave the roll for th e HO,, because it might have to be renewed every now and then?
Sorry,, can't help but have some fun with this! How did you make out anyway?Its a horse thing!
Could you imagine the poor schnook 10 years from now that had to R/R the dishwasher after it was embedded in foam? :>)
yeah but all you'd need is a drywall saw to cut the bead of foam, and voila!
I hope no one is taking me seriously!
Ah yes. Have you ever tried to fix one when you can't get it out?
Quite a few times someone tiled the kitchen floor with nice thick tiles and it became impossible to remove the d/w to repair it.
Give me an installer who also repairs anytime:)roger
If your nailgun still doesn't work....
Someone makes stainless pieces that gets epoxied to the underside of the granite. They are about 1.5" in diameter (the last set I saw was hex shaped) and there is a machine screw nut welded to the center. After the epoxy sets, the dishwasher is bolted in place. A granite shop should have them.
Most newer dishwashers have reversible side trims with pre punched holes to fasten into the cabinets. That should be detailed in the instructions.
Did not read all posts, so this may be a repeat.
Had it done two different ways by granite counter installers, and one by me.
1. drill hole in bottom of granite w/ an 18v hammer drill, and use a nylon sleeve w/ a screw.
2. they used epoxy to fasten a nifty little 3/4" X 3/4" metal "washer" with a raised center that was drilled and tapped to accept a VERRRRRY short pan head screw...3 threads max.
My method....use the optional holes in the sides to fasten to adjacent cabs.
All 3 ways worked fine.
Good idea. I didn't have any "optional holes" in the side, but I made some anyways LOL! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
They usually plug em with plastic plugs (about 3/8" to 1/2" Dia) that you have to pop out.
But sounds like you gots it covered any way.
You crack me up...
A Euro sink I put in under a cc counter came with these beautiful little full stainless wedge anchors intended for granite...
I didn't use 'em. I think I still have 'em. I could mail 'em to you! ;-)
SOunds like the post further down's got it with dwal anchors in holes with silicone... maybe.
"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."
http://integra-adhesives.com/dispensing.html
Kowboy