I did some porch railing and steps for a client of mine. The porch was concrete. There was previously a wrought iron railing there. Owner wanted a pressure treated railing. The trick was how to secure the wood posts the most attractive way possible to the concrete. The method I chose was to use a simpson strong tie post holder that stood the post off the concrete about an inch or so. Using anchoring cement I put a threaded rod into the concrete, then bolted down the post holder the following day, then attached the post. Job done, we left.
Owner called other day, the one post is fairly loose. This is also the post the owner wanted me to install a gate on so she could put her dog out. Owner did not want me to install gate on the brick wall across from the railing. She wanted it on the post. This loose post is the post that holds the railing for the stairs going up and where it transitions to horizontal railing for the porch. My gut said the post would work loose over time with a heavy gate hanging on it but owner said she’ll almost always have the gate open where it attaches via a lock alongside the horizontal railing.
So how can I strengthen this post to make it tight for the owner again? Here is a picture of the post with the gate closed taken at the time of completion. File size is large, I don’t know how to compress it.
Replies
What kind of simpson base?
all of them that I saw are only used to keep a deck post in place and not to support a post without and other support.
However the do make an Ez-base for fence post that might work, but it is not the nicest looking thing.
Look at this thread for an alternate.
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=105580.1&search=y
The client found a welder to fix the existing and I am not doing it unless the welds don't hold. So I have not tried them.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Resize and a bump
Thnks Bill. How do you resize?If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
Copied your pic to my desktop.
Opened pic on my desktop with Irfanview.
Image, resize to Half (once for your orginal)
Save file.
Post as usual.Irfnview is a free program that is the standard Breaktime picture manipulation program of choice.
TFB (Bill)
I would have used epoxy anchoring instead of cement.
But I would not have hung a gate from an un-braced post like that. Even with epoxy, the stresses from the movement and leverage can easily break the cement away there too. It is a design problem cause by you acceding to her dictates when she did not realize the problems she would be causing
Also, my eyeball tells me that this does not meet the 36" high and the 4" sphere requirements
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There are 3" spacing on pickets. The rail is more than 36".If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
It was the spacing under the bottom that seemed to large for th e4" sphere, but the narrower spacing on the pickets probably made it seem so, throwing off my persepctive when i assumed it to be 4"
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I took anothe rlook and see that you have a 4x4 post there with a 6" top rail leading to it.Try replacing it with a 6x6. That will give you more room for that idea somebody had of more than one piece of steel epoxied in. It be be more proportionate to the rail size too then.But I still have little confidence in swinging a gate from it.
I s that because she has a door immdeitately around the corner from the gate location and the swing would conflict with swing on the storm door?I am wondering about posts that would go up as high as the soffit that could be done decoratively like with some lattice fro vining plants to grow up onto. Or make the posts columns to support a pergola over that bumpout porch deck.That way, the posts could be stabilized back to the fascia or soffit. Or an artsyfartsy arch to walk through as you go in the gate.You really don't have too much to work with there. Good luck.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Willie
I haven't seen you post for a while, not that I read everything here.
Sometimes I leave for a while when life gets busy.
I have been thinking about you and your business and I have been wondering how are you doing at "Being Profitable"?
How the boys doing?
God Bless and I will keep praying for you and your business.
Rich
Just a thought. How about a bolt like you would use on a interior newel post. Epoxy bolt into concrete porch floor. Drill hole up into bottom of post. Bolt extends up into the bottom of the post. Through a hole in side of post install washer and nut. Then maybe add a trim around the bottom of the post to increase the area of the post to better resist the lateral force. It could also add a little to the look. As to the gate. Bad idea. Suggest that she get a removable gate like people use to keep there kids from falling down the stairs etc,.
Might think about a decorative iron bracket that doesn't stick out to far and become a tripper.
Put a caster on the latch side of the gate.
That requires that the floor be level
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"That requires that the floor be level"
Actually, I have used spring loaded casters which act almost like little shock absorbers for driveway gates. they can accomodate some uneveness without torquing the hinge posts too much.
Still, the whole thing is a mess- even if the gate doesn't yank the post over, what happens when large marge leans against it? I'd get my lawyer over there 24/7- he can hold the post up while having people sign waivers...
k
Large Marge, the kids on Halloween night,and the dogs chasing the felines that jump onto that railing! You got it.
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Yeah, Simpson won't give moment values for their post bases, right? Probably for just such liability issues. Not that we haven't all used them in moment situations, Ive even seen them in retaining walls. But if it falls over, it's on you.
or is there a post base with a moment rating?... I often say stuff that isn't true...
k
Drill four 5/8" holes about a foot deep in the concrete and the bottom of the post, making sure they align. Epoxy a 2' long rebar or threaded rod into the holes in the post, then epoxy them into the concrete.
(Note: Assemble it dry first, to make sure it will all align up properly.)
What are the steps made out of? (Was thinking that if they were wood, you could somehow have a 2x4 braced against the sides of the steps and then attached to the post for stability in one direction, but dont know about the rest.)
If the gate post is right in the corner of the porch where it meets the steps, (couldn't see much in photo), could you put a 4x4 or similar down all the way along side the porch, right in that corner, either attaching it to both the sides of the steps and the side of the porch, or stick it in a hole in the ground dug right in the corner and anchored with concrete? Then you'd probably need to extend brackets or something from it to the gate post.
The only other thing I can think of would be to use a hollow post and epoxy two threaded rods into the concrete and running the full length of the hollow post and then through a block near the top of the post and tightening those really well with nuts over washers at the top of the block. Cover the ends with the finial. Two rods will sort of help prevent movement better than just one, but still won't be foolproof. I suppose you could even run threaded rod down from the top of the post at a 45 degree angle to an anchor point in the concrete below the bottom horizontal rail that runs over to the house and use a coupling like a turnbuckle to tighten, but without much in the way of an opposing force, you may just pull it over.