How Do You Get A Roofer Back To Finish?
Withold the entire payment until you are 100% satisfied. He’d have figured out a way to do the job and get it done right. Now, you probably have to beg, stick a gun in his face or start the legal proceedings.
We recently had this situation with the drywallers who claimed that they knew how to do a smooth finish. It took them six trips. Every time they got closer and closer to being done. Every time they wanted their pay. Every time we told them no, not a dime till it’s done right, just like we agreed before they started the deal. Every time, they came back the next day.
Think about that….it took them three or four extra days, which isn’t a deal breaker. But….if we had paid them, do you think there would be ANY chance that we’d get them back there for the sixth time?
Bob’s next test date: 12/10/07
Replies
"Paid in full,(yeah I know I should of held some back..) "
Short of kidnapping his firstborn son, you are out of luck
not right, but IMO, you were just plain stupid to pay for incomplete work. Sorry to be blunt but there it is.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
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Pay another roofer to finish it. Don't be shy about telling everyone that will listen what he did to you either.
Pop, lock, and drop it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy3LM5_-i1Q&feature=related
You could try embarassing him. Call and ask him what it would take to get him to come back and finish. Ask if he needs more money (I'm not suggesting that you pay him anything) or what? Remind him that you paid him in what you thought full payment and that you would just like him to finish, or to at least be honest with you and let you know if he even intends to come back, so you can move on.
Give him an offer he can't refuse...and be willing to see the thing through......or
realize you were a sucker, learn from your mistake and NEVER pay in advance for ANYTHING ever again........Piffin's right on that account.
Suprised no one said the old standby response
Knock up his wife, he'll be at your house soon enough.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Welcome to Poo-ville, can I have your socks?
Seriously Folks, I need a home for 3 lovers of your life.
Give him written notice that he has 7 days to complete the work as agreed or you will have it done by others at his costs.
In 7 days time you get 3 estimates by registered/licenced contractors who do roofing repairs and hire the most reasonable one to do the repairs immediately.
Whatever the bill, take it to small claims court and collect it along with reasonable costs.
end of story and never do it again.
Gabe
He not coming back, no money in it for him. If you have paid him anything, Have him arrested for fraud. State of Mississippi has put 213 contractors in jail because of katrina fraud
State of Mississippi has put 213 contractors in jail because of katrina fraud
So now your tax dollars are supporting them?PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
yes but they do keep our highways clean, ' working on a chain gang..."
Get his home number and have your wife call and ask for him while he's at work.
Of course this will only work if he's married.
That is a great idea!
Have a good day
Cliffy
Even retired, unless a really scary roof, DIY in the first place.
Heck, I'm in mid-60s and did moms 12/12 roof 'cause nobody would bid (needed some framing work also)
wake up at 6 in the morn, Give him a call, cawffee time givem a call, lunch time call, Dinner time call, While drinkin your warm milk at 11 at night give em a call, Still no responce drive over to where his next job is tell the Homeowners or Contractor why your there, Your looking for your buddy the roofer.At least you will know when he hears the phone ring hes gonna be thinking about it, Always leave a nice long , long, Real long message, Ramble on and on so his tape runs out, In fact email me this bums number.
Put paint thinner on all his door knobs.
Pop, lock, and drop it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy3LM5_-i1Q&feature=related
He bid $1,800 for doing the decking, the roof, adding some Hardiboard siding near the top of the end gables, and adding four 1x8" W Red Cedar boards on each gable facia.
He "ran out of time" and didn't want to do the 4'x 10' sections of Hardiplank. We agreed that would deduct $200...
A contract is a contract, but you're gonna have a hard time getting him to come back on this. He way underbid it (not your fault) and is loosing money doing any more work since you've already paid him (your fault). Good luck.
http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
Does he have a license and is there a governing authority to call?
Was there a contract?
Here in OR if the contractor is licensed, you have a contract, and its clear the work has not been completed, one call to the Constr Contractor's Board would get the ball rolling.
"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."
looks like a whole short course in the first pic and some strange sidewall work
looks like a whole short course in the first pic
Yeah, that's weird. He's run a short course and then had to add another real short course to bring it in to the ridge. He's probably out of square and is stretching on the other end and we can't see it in the pix.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
somethings looks off.
It was no real roofer
That's pretty rough looking work. From the deal you struck with this guy (you buying the materials and his low price), I suspect this is an uninsured, unlicensed guy with a pickup and a ladder that just got laid off from the factory.
Since he did the sheathing, is this new work or a re-roof? If it's a re-roof, who did the tear-off?
http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
A contract is a contract and at the end of the day he should honor it. That being said... you got just about what you paid for. I'd get a decent roofer in there to 'tidy up' a bit so you can sleep at night. The original guy isn't coming back.
I was trying ot be nice, with that price I might try the fed court house(bankruruptcy court)
He's got one of those orange guns...I tossed my out.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I've got 2 of those orange guns. Work great for punch out......I would never consider framing with them. I see alot of them on our jobs(plumber, sparky, HVAC). No problems yet after about 2 years.John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
I obviously bought a lemon!
I have never been able to fire more than 10 nails without a misfire. I stopped picking that up to try it two weeks after I owned it. I used to laugh at Frank as I saw him misfiring it.
We had our tool guy look at it. We took it back to the tool store and they looked at it.
Basically, I'd go back to handpounding everything before I'd use that orange thing again. I'm glad you can make them work for you. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I do't think yours was a lemon.
I've never purchased one because any of those I ever used, or saw being used, had issues.
Compound that with the need of charged battieries and a supply of gas cartridges, and I'll have it hand nailed before most guys have theirs up and running.
Too large a job for hand nailing and the compressor comes out.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Pp, Qq
Bill,
From what I see I would hire another roofer to repair and finish everything. I would not want this guy back ever.
Russell
"Welcome to my world"
Weight,size, and cost of use. Much cheaper to use a pneumatic gun.
John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
That's a pretty bad roof job. Was this guy a well established roofing company or just some guy with a pickup and a ladder that says he is a roofer?
It always bothers me when I see work done buy others that just do not know how to do it right. It is not that they are trying to rip anyone off they just do not know what they are doing. They low ball bids leave things undone and what they do is not done right.
I am sorry you got burned and I do not know enough about your job or the guy you hired to place any judgement in your situation.
But in general I find in these situations the fault lies equally with both the home owner and the so called contractor.
Why? well one was putting too much emphases on saving a buck and they other was doing work they did not really know how to do correctly or have enough experience to know what the job should cost to do right. I know a job should be done right no matter how badly they bid it and we all like to save money but I find you usually only get what you pay for.
Some times it means you have to hire the guy with the higher bid to get a job done right.
Now there are guys out there that DO know they are ripping someone off they are just plan crooks.
"Other than my right arm is now bigger than my left, due to its 8lb weight, and it won't fully drive the .131 by 3-1/4" ringshank nail in pressure treated or just wet plain lumber.... Why wouldn't you use it to frame?"
LOL...I guess those two pretty much sums it up. My Hitachi drives them all home, without misfires.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I think I might offer him more money to finish, and then not pay it when he does finish. But that's just me....
after seeing his work it might be better in the long run to pay him not to come back
you get what you pay for.
looks like average quality work at best.
grant is right, the guy underbid it.
in terms of what you paid, i think you got the work done for a very low price.
quit wasting your time calling the goof and get a decent roofer to come out an finish and look for any other issues.
pay the decent roofer to finish and you will still be ahead.
one last thing, are the shingle manufacturers still requiring that the shingles get cemented as well as 6-nailed on slopes as steep as yours ?
check your wrapper.
carpenter in transition
Edited 4/14/2008 12:26 am ET by timkline
I get calls like this a lot, now im looking at a job i have to fix but the fix price is high compared to the first job, Now im gonna have to 'babysit the job" figuring everything from now on im getting the call Not to mention a little resentment i did not get the call or job in the first place, remember roofers talk to each other to, If one is busy who wants to pull off good customers to chase a mess, just saying thats all
the guy isn't coming back.for the money mentioned originally--- I wouldn't have shown up in the first place.
As far as finding someone else to finish this thing up---good luck with that. I get calls like that pretty often and I am simply not interested in getting in the middle of someone elses mess.I DID get a chuckle out of the "3 year labor gaurantee"BTW--insurance company can/will do NOTHING for you.chalk it up to "lessons learned"--and concentrate on finding someone to finish it for you---but frankly I can't imagine that anyone you would actually WANT to do the work will be interested in your problem.
stephen
"chalk it up to "lessons learned"--and concentrate on finding someone to finish it for you---but frankly I can't imagine that anyone you would actually WANT to do the work will be interested in your problem."
I was thinking that the whole time . Its really not fair but its life .
Whenever someone has called me in the past with a problem they have had with another contractor and want help; I just think , well I dont need a problem either and IM pretty busy.
I never know whos right or wrong but Ive got nothing invested in it so pass on it.
Next thing the customer is never happy at that point . I dont need that either . Lots of happy folks wanting work done .
Next thing ; I have never enjoyed working somewhere it might be questioned that I get paid . I dont need that either . He already paid once . Mebbe he figgures he shouldnt have to pay again.
The customer is a marked man, fairly or unfairly.
keep in mind that getting somebody there to "clean up" costs extra....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
That seems to be what it is
It all goes back to the "fast, cheap, good - pick any two" axiom. But unfortunately, most times when the cheap option is picked, the good option is not the other one.
I haven't been able to get the OP to answer the question about whether the "roofer" was really a legal contractor or a guy with a p/u and a ladder.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
tim--you have nailed it exactly--- i would only add that once contractor #2 comes in"just to finish up"---he has,like it or not,--as a practical matter just taken on a lot of liability for the 1st guys work.when problems surface down the road--who is gonna get the call?
certainley not roofer #1---the guy currently not returning phone calls right nowit's gonna be roofer #2
stephen
I thought you said you hired a roofer!
That work was not done by a roofer. It was done by a hack. I would not have paid him one dime. I'd rather NOT have him back on this job to screw it up more.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
"Why wouldn't you use it to frame?"
Fine for a one man DIY, but too slow and expensive for production work.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Well..... at least he's consistent. ;)
Well, it's funny how things work.....
This evening, radar turned yellow, then red, then BLACK.... So much wind to 60+mph, then golfball size hail, it turned the yard white and lasted more than 20 minutes....
No windows broken, no leaks in that roof or our home so far, however the home's windturbines are wobbling and beat-up....
All I have is a disposable camera, but I'll post what it looked like when I can get them developed tomorrow....
No telling what shingles will go for....Guess what company AIN'T gettin' a roofing job...;>)
Well at least the unfinished shingles didn't get hit!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You may know this better than I,
But this guy just suffered an insurable loss from the storm. His insurance company should be contacted about the damaged roof. Once they pay to repair (to code, etc.) wouldn't they possibly look to this roofer for remediation? And take over any legal pursuit?
Pete,
the short answer is-as a practical matter the insurance company isn't gonna go after the last guy.
the good news is- the O.P. has just hit the lottery,courtesy of a hailstormHe will hopefully get a check from the insurance company for the hail damaged--and can use that check to replace his roof properlythe bad news is---his check from the insurance company may not be enough to pay for the roofer he should have hired in the first place!I am a roofing contractor-my own zip code was hit with a major hail storm 6-8-07
circumstances now make me much more of an expert about this than I really want to be
the sad fact--as explained by multiple claims adjusters over the last 11 months--is that insurance companies track the average per square cost of installed roofing across the nation--and break it down by zip code.
They only want to pay the average per square cost for the zip code of the insured
TWO problems--
1)no roof is average----they are either easier or more difficult than average
2)--no contractor is average-they are better or worse than average
using myself as an example
I specialize in difficult roofs-if it's easy-I don't really want to do it
furthermore- i specialize in roofs within about a 12 block radius of my home( my zip code!)- i do very little advertising-----and have worked this way for 20 yearsin short---in this zip code i would be very much the guy you want to replace your roof
BUT-- your insurance check won't cover my costs! sorry to toot my own horn---but the OP-has potentially just exchanged one problem--for a second problemHe may get a new roof done by a storm chaser-- pay over his insurance check---and in 3 months learn that his new roof---is actually WORSe than the bad one he has right now all in all- I feel kind of bad for him.
Best wishes,
stephen
But,
If they track the average price based on zip code . . .
. . . and you've been the big guy in your zip code for 20 years . . .
. . . shouldn't your prices BE the average?
good question don,
but your math is a little off1)- I am not the big guy--there aren't big guys
basically i would estimate my market to have a population of say 25,000.
there are maybe 3 of us that are pretty well known here in that market---and literally dozens of other outfits that come in and out----start up-go out of business etc.
2)-- there is no way that one of us-or even all 3 of us can set the average.-----also-- i am not real interested in the "average house"
have a house with mature landscaping totally surrounding the home-------say a dutch colonial with 3 layers of asphalt shingles over a layer of wood shingles& skip sheathing?- Need it torn off, re-decked and re-roofed??????
THAT is the roof I seem to want/get there is just no way I am doing that for the same price per square that 2 guys in a beater truck will be happy to get for a 2 bedroom bungalow.
however-THAT is exactly how the insurance companies want to price it. fortuneately for me-- the insurance company doesn't set my price---I set my price.
also fortuneate- the insurance company is NOT my customer--the HOMEOWNER is my customer. My customers pay the difference between what the insurance company gives them-and what I actually charge. the long and the short of it is that I really don't care what money the customer gets from the insurance company----that is none of my business2 interesting things happened to me recently in regaurd to this.
A) when i was a kid there was a pair of brothers --Dave smith and Bernie smith that pretty much "owned" this neighborhood.
Dave's business handled windows and aluminum siding
Bernies business handled roofing
i remember very well--- Bernie roofed my dads house circa 1978, and dave sided it and installed a new front door.thursday- i was headed home for lunch when i saw a truck i recognized nearby- it's owned by Dave's son-who is largely in the same line of work as his father was------it is a nice truck-and I have always thought it had outstanding lettering on it---so i stopped and told the guy" hey- I don't want to bother you- i just wanted to tell you that I see your truck often and I admire the signage"-we got to talking a bit and he mentioned to me that back in the 60's /70's---- Bernie and dave did about 600 houses in the neighborhood.ya could have knocked me over with a feather at that moment---because i realized in that instant i AM Bernie and Dave.the guy I was talking to mentioned the house HE grew up in----I kept my mouth shut about the fact that I just roofed it a week and a half agoYesterday i ran into his cousin" Bernies son"-at the landfill---small world!
B)-- someone I know very well had a check from an insurance company and asked me to look at their roof.
I examined it and told them that in my opinion the roof was fine-they didn't need a new roof-but if we did it it would be X amount folks,it seemed, wanted a second opinion.-called one of the other 2 guys who are currently well known here. Mentioned that i had already looked at it and felt it didn't need replacing.
competitor told the folks" If Steve has already looked at it and told you that it is fine, I am not even going to bother looking at it--you are fine. that made me feel pretty good!
anyway--sorry to ramble" Be of this time, BE of this place "
stephen
It was a good ramble .
tim, I should maybe apologize a bit
my last post might have come off a touch more pompous than I would have intended itI was just caught up in the whole " Circle of life" thing.
I just can't believe how fast time moves. so--sorry if I came off as an Ahole,
stephen
After our dec storm the insurance adjusters came from texas and based everything on Texas prices, Which were lower then even the jacks could do it here, They even told people the roofers here were "ripoffs" excuse the roofers pun.I had read about how you work in a certain block area and thought that was amazing, Then thought about it today and realized i have the same thing in my biz except we are stretched out a little more, At any rate sometimes i dont leave my town for months and dont go more then 4 miles . I gave up going to the towns 10 miles away.
I thought it was a good post .
I didnt say that ??
I think its cool you have a good relationship with the other guys .
I used to be the painter everyone used to spray rough cedar too so I know what the main call guy is like . I did drywall hanging , finishing and painting so I shored up customers that only wanted to deal with one person. I was the only one that did all three for a living around here. I had gas rigs and compresssors too and that got me all the farmers work spraying gates , fences , barns ,roofs, shops , houses, etc. I even painted hundreds of implements. That got me into the only guy doing sand blasting . I worked as an industrial painter for 3 years union shop.
The guys you spoke about that went in and out of business did one thing . In this rural country I live in theres not enough work doing one thing unless you travel. Painters starved to death in the winter and any time building stopped because they didnt have retail clients that would trust them inside. Drywall is even pickier than that. Contractors dont want to wait on one guy to finish a house and write a check for every single thing every time a sub drives his last nail. I billed the first of every month payable by the 10th. That was convient for the contractors and I charged accordingly. I was higher . I took the winters off and hunted if they would let me do it . I worked 6 or 7 -10s every week in the summer . If ya add it up it works out the same as 8 hrs , for 40 all year. Just work 10s all the time you work. Saves on gas and lunches. Get in and get out faster making contractors happy.
Same stuff basically isnt it ? Its a service not every one sells . It costs a little more.
Ive painted those nice houses I couldnt get a ladder close to for the flower beds too and it all has to be covered. It costs more to make it look like you were never there. Pick up every night and leave it clean. Yes , Ive been there . SQ FT prices would have nothing to do with it .
Tim
Even if the insurance company would pay your going rates they would not pay full price for a job like that.I am not sure if this is common or not, but I have heard that in this area the coverage only covers the existing roof. That is the top layer of shingles. The HO still needs to pay for everything below that..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
The HO still needs to pay for everything below that.
I had hail damage back in 1990 and there were three layers of asphalt on top of the original wood shingles. Insurance paid for all three layers of asphalt to be removed. I remember seeing the insurance adjusters paper work, he specifically paid for each layer and disposal of said. I dont know whether or not it would have covered the cost of getting it done because I did it myself but I did get paid for the removal of all the layers on the roof.
Doug
Bill,
i haven't had an insurance company object to paying for a tear-off.
1 layer
3 layer
they pay--but they don't pay much different for a 3 layer or a 1 layer tear-off.Of Course-that isn't my problem, because the insurance company doesn't determine my price
insurance company also wants to pay only for 15# felt
( but my customers deserve-and get titanium UDL) insurance company only wants to pay for 25 year 3 tabs
( but Stephen has the receipt from when he roofed this house 9 years ago--30 year owens corning supreme 3 tabs-----so customer NOW gets 30 year dimensional shingles) insurance company wants to pay $40 to flash a chimney
( but stephen usually spends 3-4 hours on a chimney and he isn't working for $12/ hour) insurance company doesn't want to pay for ice gaurd because the house built in 1926 that has 1 layer of wood shingles under 2-3 layers of asphalt shingles was built BEFORE icegaurd was invented
( yes-but the building code-and common sense dictate that stephen use icegaurd today) Basically- the insurance company seems to think that the contractor is a charity subsidizing the customers roof.
stephen BTW-- I apologise if I am sounding to smug or self involved here.
Basically If I am gonna do the project- I am gonna do it MY way.Here is the reason
remember-insurance company only wants to pay $40 to flash a chimney?????--the contractor who accepts $40 for that is simply gonna pound masonry nails through sheet metal and scab it on to the outside of the chimney, smear it with caulk--and head back to Texas
On the other hand-- I literally live next door to these folks-or across the street from them. If I flash the chimney I am getting out the grinder and a diamond wheel and grinding the mortar joints, bending the metal on a sheet metal brake, tucking it back into the mortar joint etc.
i HAVE to stand behind my work
the insurance company doesn't stand behind my work(or their work for that matter)and the $40 chimney flashing"roofer" who has skedaddled back to Texas ?--he doesn't have to stand behind his work either I kid you not, Bill.- i spent 19 years roofing houses here in this neighborhood. this year is my 20th year------ and it is very melecholy- every day I am roofing a house I already roofed in the past and remembering how young I was THEN- how young my kids were, how young the customers kids were-remembering coaching those same kids in Basketball and baseball. the insurance company doesn't pay me for THAT eitherNext year, I firmly believe that if i haven't retired- I will be re-roofing many of the houses done by the Storm chasers LAST year. I am already getting calls for repairs for some of those roofs( they are less than one year old!!!!)
It is really heartbreaking to see your neighborhood raped by insurance companies and the fly-by-night storm chasers they steer the customers towards
but i can only do so much.
stephen
Thanks to all of you that had humor, positive comments, and understanding of both the roofer's actions and the possible happy ending to the nightmare he left and never came back....
Bill
somebody tell dockelly this is another thing I don't know;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!