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I’ve been a DIYer (a pretty good one, I think) for many years. But as the size and scope of my projects have increased, I find myself limited. I really need a helper — sometimes two — but I have no idea how to find one.
In addition, I have been seriously contemplating a a new line of work, buying and rehabing “deferred maintenance” homes and putting them back on the market. But, obviously, I can’t touch this one without a good small crew and a list of good subs. I have no idea how to find either, nor how much they ought to be paid.
I would really appreciate the insight and wisdom of you pros who have been doing this sort of thing for years. How do you build a solid network of subs and workers?
Replies
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Ml:
What line of work are you in now? You mention DIY'r. Do you have the time to juggle a job and trying to renovate "rundown homes?" There's money in them no doubt, providing you're in the right neighborhood for it.
Good subs are booked for months at a time and more and they're very happy with the rates they are getting. Tough choice..the labor market is so tight right now here in the US. I'm sure the other guys here can provide some great insight!
:)
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M1,as far as finding good subs, its like finding a good woman you have to try a few before you find the right one.Talk to friends that have used different tradesman, check their work and try to get to know them.It takes time to build relationships that last.Pay on time,listen to advice about what they know best.At the same time you have to keep your eyes open and stay on top of things.Finding good help depends alot on you,how much do you know? Can you tell if a guy really knows what he says he knows.Sometimes I'll stop and watch guys on a job site and pretty soon I can tell just by the way they move who the experinced guys are.Try it sometime.Vince
* M1,
Joseph Fusco View Image
*Joe, we must be on that same leave the house at about 6 a.m. and finaly have some time to our self at 9 p.m. schedule again.And this is really the first time I've ever beat you to the punch.Vince
* Vince,
Joseph Fusco View Image
*ml first like any sub you have to have a relation with your crews and subs. This starts with paying on time. Notice that I didn't say early but on time. I agree with taking a look at the crew and subs as they work. I can lean more about a carpenter by watching him a few minutes then all the talking in the world
*I think its important from the get go to make it clear that you're not looking for a sub for a one time job or the low bid. I want someone I can count on for long term relationship. I dont want to have to sort through subs everytime I do a job. I think that maybe the best advice I ever got as a G.C. was to try to have 2 good subs in every trade. They'll keep each other honest, and you'll have an option if you're main guy is busy. Also, if you can help one of them through a tough time, it's good karma.JonC
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I think I can tell a good tradesman/worker once I watch them work. It's finding them in the first place that's a problem. Yellow pages? What?
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fred, you're speaking in tongues again. I can't believe that you forgot to mention the liquor store as another prime labor pool source.
China Beach?? To see the show, you have to be the show??? That's right up there with that famous fuscoism: a dollar short and a day late. And, as the obtuse one would say, "all right already! enough with the TRIPE replies." Fred, YOU really do think you are the show, don't you, please, start seeing your doctor again.
ml, besides the other good advice here, I have put ads in the paper, on building supply bulletin boards, and just asked around. The problem with real good help, is that they learn, and usually move on and up (can't blame them, can you?), so don't invest too much time in them unless they'll stay with you.
Good subs on the other hand, are almost impossible to find, so, when you do, treat 'em right. Exactly like you would want to be treated. Don't stack them up on top of each other, don't tell them crap, give them apples to apples in the bids, and don't try to knock them off their price. Reno/remo is tough work, and even tougher to bid, be fair when something extra comes up.
That should keep you busy for a couple of years,BB
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ml. Check the agencies that help refugees relocate. I have a small advantage over some contractors because I will use non-English speaking people and teach them our trade. Many have more English ability then first apparent. + It isn't unusual to find one having skills going to waste because of the language barrier. Not the skills we need tho. Due to dumb luck I picked up my team leader six years ago at the local state job center, kid drove me nuts with his limited English for about 6 monthes. But, he had the potential and attitude we all want and now speaks at about 95%+. Six monthes later I hired another non-English person out of the local City Mission who couldn't understand much of anything I said. He is also doing very well. The others are new, working on their English and I sturggle with my Spanish.
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Babbling Bozo,
Joseph Fusco
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*Here I am, jo jo. See, that wasn't so hard, for one of your immense intellect, was it. Glad to see you got that spell checker working.Hey, we're all bozos on this bus, and I'm glad to be on it, BB, whoops what did we just hit? Oh ,just that nitwit, but doesn't he have the most handsome butt...???By the way baboon boy, increase the medication, you're cross threading.
* Babbling Bozo, a.k.a. j. holland eshelman. Bet the "j" stands for jerkoff.
Joseph Fusco View Image
*Joe, shut up. OK? You are without a doubt the sickest character I've run up against in a long time. Billy, in my experience , has never done anything up offer up good, helpful, advice. You ,lately,specialise in useless personal attacks that contribute nothing. ( I know, I will expect the usual sick, profane, pathetic email from you; I've compared notes with some of the other guys who don't buy into your crap). Take a poll; most of the steady guys on this board wish you would stop this garbage, and if you have something useful to say, say it and walk on. Is this BRUTAL enough for you?By the way, looked at your website, I've got no reason to take a step back for you, bet the same goes for most of the guys here.
*ml - you have hit on one of the most pressing issues in our profession. Pick up any trade journal and you are likely to find some reference to a dwindling labor pool, industry wide. And it will only get worse as we move further into the "information age". Sweat is equated with dirt. Toil is equated with animals. The good news is, for those of us who are willing to pursue this profession, there will be a growing demand. At some point, we (and the farmers) will get the respect we deserve, along with the monetary compensation we already get. - jb
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Joseph Fusco View Image
*Sad that an innocent could ask a simple straightforward question in a polite manner on the FHB main board and end up with this kind of crap on his thread.JonC
* JonC,
Joseph Fusco View Image
*...good point, JonC. Wasn't that the origin of the "Woodshed" when George started it? To give folks with a bone to pick with each other a place to do it without discouraging discourse by others? Surely Taunton Press doesn't appreciate spending who knows how much on this board, only to have it rendered unusable for folks with questions. - jb
*Joe, I'm gonna tell you as straight as I know how.I'm just coming back to building after spending most of my adult life in mental health. The bulk of that time on locked psychiatric security wards, most of it as a supervisor in the criminal treatment programs.Here's a canned speech I used to give when the blood was being mopped up and we were trying to determine how many of the healthy bodies I'd signed for at the beginning of my shift no longer fit the description and how many of my staff had been injured. I dont give a shit who started it. Any two of you shithouse lawyers could spend the next year picking points, confusing issues and still have me chasing my tail. I was hired for my Skinnarian tendencies. I want to know A) When could 6 out of 6 low IQ gas station attendants tell we had an ugly sitiuation. b)Who actively escalated the sitiuation from that point. c) Who actively tried to deescalate the sitiuation from that point (which as I'm probably proving right now is often counter productive but I'll give you points anyway) d) Who had the good sense to just walk away.Not about to get suckered into figuring out who started it, where or how.JonC
* JonC,
Joseph Fusco View Image
*ml,As you can see there is a lot of infighting going on here. Just ignore the BS and look for the info you need.Good subs are very hard to find. A key word in your post is "years". It takes years in this business to find who you like to work with and who works well with you. It's like there may be a great plumber that someone has had a lot of good experiences with, but you may think he is a total waste.If you want to get into this business, you'll have to do like the rest of us and take your chances. Knowledge of what your doing will be your best asset. If you don't know what your taking about, I'll know in a heartbeat. If you tell me you need my advice, I'll respect that, and treat you like an equal. Don't try to BS your way through. It won't work.Good luck in your endeavores.Trust your gut.Ed. Williams
*Think you just made my point about shithouse lawyers. Going to bed now.
* JonC,
Joseph Fusco View Image
*'Nuff said, I started out trying to be cute, and got carried away. I appreciated you all jostling the reigns.I apologize to all for using this forum as a ring, you didn't need that.John Holland Eshelman aka BB
*And the tavern boys with their chests expanded to the max, spilled out onto the regular board!!!!...I think I'll have to help sean write up a parsing scheme that shunts you all down and auto tosses you all back inside the Tavern!...It's fun to click accidentally into one of the b "Fusco Firestorms" as it compares up there with professional wrestling...Hey Joe, you might think of running for Mayor of NYC when Rudy goes to the senate...What do you all think, Mayor Fusco???aj
*Jack, is there AC in that tavern?Sorry, it's hard to type with anti-perspirant ALL over myself.. and the pond is boiling..BB
* Jack,
Joseph Fusco View Image
*Sounds like you DID think about it, though.I know ,I know, I just couln't resist. BB
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ML, I am a third generation homebuilder, so I inherited many of my subs. However, I have two suggestions for you. 1) Check with suppliers relevant to the tradesman you are looking for. For example, you might check with a drywall supplier for suggestions as to hangers and finishers, a millwork company for a trim carpenter, etc. 2) Take note of your better competitors' subs through inquiries or jobsite drive-by's.
With option 1, I always ask a prospective sub who else they work for in order to help me to assess how they might fit into my program. With either option, there is no substitute for seeing some of their work firsthand.
Good Luck!
Mark
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I've been a DIYer (a pretty good one, I think) for many years. But as the size and scope of my projects have increased, I find myself limited. I really need a helper -- sometimes two -- but I have no idea how to find one.
In addition, I have been seriously contemplating a a new line of work, buying and rehabing "deferred maintenance" homes and putting them back on the market. But, obviously, I can't touch this one without a good small crew and a list of good subs. I have no idea how to find either, nor how much they ought to be paid.
I would really appreciate the insight and wisdom of you pros who have been doing this sort of thing for years. How do you build a solid network of subs and workers?