I just replaced my old 3-handle Gerber shower with a Delta single handle, from the front, through the goof plate oval. Pretty tricky. No clearance to swing a mini tubing cutter or hit two sides of a fitting with the torch. I wasn’t super confident on a couple of joints.
Before I covered the hole I capped off the tub and shower spouts and left the test cap in the valve body with the water on for several hours, no leaks. However, I’ve read in a few places on the internet that people have had leaks develop a week or weeks after the job. It’s made me a little paranoid.
So I’m wondering does that really happen? If so, how? Ever seen it?
Replies
In my experience, if its going to leak from a bad joint, its going to leak right away, especially under full pressure. It sounds like your test over a few hours should be conclusive enough.
Joints that develop leaks over time are probably prone to vibration probably the result of improper securing of the line. Or some corrosive property in the water or like pinholes in the copper.
Webby
Edited 7/26/2009 10:23 am ET by webby
the only thing to watch for with the lines capped is you need to get the air bled off ,otherwise you can have nothing but air and a leak won't show. from what you have done i would now put things together,run some water through it. come back in 10 minutes,if it's dry install the trim and called yourself a plumber.
the older i get ,
the more people tick me off
Great point a.o.b.. There was a bit of trapped air at the capped ends, but not near the joints in question. I filled the system with hot water at first and felt the heat at the joints.
true about the air pocket but if you left it pressurized for a few hours that would have been enough time for a leaky joint to bleed the air and show the water.
Chuck
maybe to be safe take an object and tap the fittings if it is going to leak you will know it after a few taps .
Almost every time I've heard of a connection failing after a few weeks, was because the plumber fitted several pieces together with flux and then he went back to solder them all, only he, would miss a joint. This has happened more than once in our company. The connection is mostly in straight runs along a wall or similar, the pressure won't blow the pipe apart because it is held in place too well. The flux can act as a seal, for awhile, but the water will ever so slowly start to push it out, once a small drip starts it will just keep flushing out more flux, and more and more water escapes, until you have a flood situation.
When we test our water lines we pump them up to 120psi. If your system is tight, it will hold the pressure throughout the rest of the building process. It also tells the drywall guys if they sink a screw into a water line.
How long is the minimum time to test it?
The longer the better, but 15 - 30 minutes is our minimum, over night is always preferred.
Also, don't test your system for at least 20 minutes after your last soldering.
I hope this helps!
Thanks to everyone who replied. I learned some great tips for next time.
When we test our water lines we pump them up to 120psi
That is a bunch!
We are reguire to have 60 to 80 lbs on all domestic water lines when the inspector arrives for the rough in inspection. He will look at the guage when he starts the inspection and again as he finishes. If it has dropped off while he is there you fail.
I generaly pump up the lines the night before and check it the first thing the next morning. If it is down I pump it up agian and get the soap bucket out.
The only time I've seen 120 psi used for test pressure was on some 6 and 8" chilled water lines. That poor little compressor kept tripping its' termal overload trying to pump that system up. I think it took almost 16 hours to fully load the pipe, but it held.
Hey Dave,You are not the first one who has made the same comment about using 120psi. And here, in KY, you can pass inspection with less pressure.The way my boss explained it to us was that, the water mains can go up in pressure to 120psi and even more. Now some of our air compressors can't do the job, and then you just take what you get. If you use standard plumbing materials and every thing holds at 80-90psi then in most cases you are good to go, but my boss says he sleeps a little better when we test at higher pressures.Plus while testing the water main pressure myself, I've seen close to 120psi. And during the night time is when the pressure will peak, especially in areas where most activity stops at night.Same thing when we install gas services. Gas co. tests at no more than 15psi for 15min. We have to test at 120psi, when we can, and it has to hold for 24hrs, when possible.So basically it's company policy to test with that much pressure. That is one thing I like about this company, we plumb above code requirements in several cases.It's good PR to do a better job than your competition.
Where in KY are you?
I'm outside of Louisville, near LaGrange.
I seen 120 psi on maines in Henry Co. That is why I always use pressure regulators out there. That kind of pressure spike can ruin a HWH in short order.
I'm down here in Bullitt County, Lebanon Junction.Yep you guessed it God's Country!!! HaHaHaHa.
As a kid I would watch my dad, a plumber. he would do the same.
Fit and flux a bunch of connections then make a big pass with the torch, fast!!
Every now and then he would miss one, he would blame me if I was talking to him!!
You distracted me!!
The helper always is the scape goat!The idea is that if they always blame the helper, the he will start watching what's going on and he will learn to double check the plumbers work. He will begin to spot things out of the corner of his eye.Actually, that's just a line I throw out to the new guys so they don't whine as much when I blame them for something they had no control over!!! (I'm baaaad sometimes)The new guy! It gets real tempting to mess with the new guy!!! hehehehe!
Yea!!!
But I was only 8yrs old!!!!!!
I used to cut and clean his copper for him.
He was probably just practicing on you! lol
U S Navy shipboard tests were (years ago) for 30 min at usually 125 % of system pressure. They usually tried to get them solid with water first tho.
Remember watching dad run black pipe for gas lines and to test it he would whip out his Zippo lighter and lite it with 1 hand, and walk down the line.
A couple times I saw a flame!!
"Remember watching dad run black pipe for gas lines and to test it he would whip out his Zippo lighter and lite it with 1 hand, and walk down the line."
I do remember when that was a standard method for leak detection. I was a little biddy feller back then.
Try that nowadays and there will be a news event for sure!!! You or me, get caught doing that and,..... well there will probably be a mug shot or two!!!
For some reason a scene or 2 from "Up in Smoke" keeps popping into my mind!
I keep seeing images of Cheech & Chong with that burnt look after the car they were in exploded!!!
This is making me laugh!!!
My dad was the ole time plumber, started off as residentual, then commercial, specialized in schools. At a very young age I would sit in the basement and watch dad run the soil pipe. I would play in the lead pot & could do a good lead joint at 10 yr old.
My dad was a little guy but had arms of a gorrilla, lugging the CI pipe all day!!
He worked 90 MPH, gotta save the company $$$$. He knew all the tradesman on the jobsite and learned thier trades as well as his own. No matter where I went, everyone knew, Fred the Plumber.
thanks for making me laugh Plumber Bob!!
Hey! You got one on me when it comes to plumbing!!!I have yet to cast my first lead joint.As for the humor! You are very welcome!
I have seen pinhole leaks develop after weeks/months. Probably where a joint was not properly cleaned and some crud prevented a full solder seal. I've even seen some of these leaks re-seal themselves, apparently from crud in the water.
These situations are very rare, though.
Eldan,
I have never seen this happen before. If you followed the basics such as
brushing and sanding you copper, using lots of flux, getting the
copper nice and hot, and getting good flow you should be in good shape.
You should be able to inspect your solder joints using a flashlight and mirror.
Think twice before you decide to touch up your solder joints because it may
be impossible to get all the water out of the lines, around the valve, without cutting
one of the lines or removing the cartridge and sucking out the water with a vac.
A plumber Rich Monroe wrote a great article @ finehomebuilding.com on
"soldering copper"
hope this helps,
Al
Thanks Al, I can fairly say I did the best I could under the circumstances, which were far from ideal. Since I found no leaks I ain't touching up nothin'!
I was just wondering about the possibility of a "late developing" leak on a joint that doesn't leak immediately, and how it might occur.
I agree that FHB has a couple of very good articles on soldering.