Take a look at the attached. It is part of a remodel job.
A very old 2-floor sunporch will be knocked down and replaced with new work on the same 10′ x 22′ footprint.
The bottom floor deck will bear on three existing piers at the long outside wall.
So you see it: two floorframes, cleated to the adjoining house wall, eleven headers, six wallframes, all studs have to be cut because standard heights don’t apply, a shallowpitch hipped roof, and ceiling joists below the top roof that will likely be in a hipped pattern as the roof above.
Three men will work it.
Your estimated manhours, please!
Replies
Based on "the attached" I would bid the job at $9500.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Nah. It's got to be worth at least $44 SF.
$99,500.01
Seeking perfection in an imperfect world is a fool's errand. Making something look perfect is a whole 'nother story . . . .
$99,500.01
You must be bidding with union labor. I bid $9500 so you respond with a bid that $90,000 higher. Maybe it's the international labor pool I'm using down here.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
>>"You must be bidding with union labor. I bid $9500 so you respond with a bid that $90,000 higher. Maybe it's the international labor pool I'm using down here."
Nah, it's kind of a running BT joke I picked up from others with a few more years under the belt than me. Some think I'm dumb, but I learn quick.
Seeking perfection in an imperfect world is a fool's errand. Making something look perfect is a whole 'nother story . . . .
220 manhours.
c'mon gene, whassup ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Sorry, Mike. It was late and I forgot to attach. Here it is.
I'd give a rough estimate of three men, three days, not including the demo. Maybe 3.5 days.
Seeking perfection in an imperfect world is a fool's errand. Making something look perfect is a whole 'nother story . . . .
3 guys? One good long day. Looks like a 10 to 12 hour job for just the sticks and sheathing. But if I was giving a quote I'd give myself two days to get it done. That doesn't include demo. Assumes reasonable site access and material drop within 50' of the frame. Shallow pitch roofs tieing into old work are always a bear and take some fudging around with unless the old wall is dead on straight (never happens). I'm assuming that roof ties into a ledger attached to the existing frame's wall. If it ties into existing roof framing instead, we'd need more time and I'd need to see what I'm getting into.
If you'd want a 'basic' exterior trim package (we'd need to see the existing before I'd give you a hard number), the windows and doors installed, housewrapped, I'd give us another day.
If you want me to tear the old down, stuff it in a dumpster, clean up and get ready for the framing..... $45/man/hour until it's done. Probably another day and a half.
So.... soup to nuts. 'Bout a week but I'd probably bring four guys.
So you're saying about a week to tear it down, frame it up,facia,shingle band , drip edge, shingle, windows, and doors. Seems like a long week. Two stories you're going to have some set up, wall jacks, pump jacks or ladder jacks.
On 99% of my frames we don't do roofing or prep for roofing (drip edge, felt, I&W, etc.) . We've got a forklift to consider in the staging and moving materials around. And we normally work 10 hour days as production increases exponentially when you factor in set-up and breakdown time.
Oh yeah..... and we work our balls off.
So yeah.... 'bout a week. Of course I can't see what I'm tieing into or the site from here, so I'd never give a hard number until I walked the job with the set of plans in front of me. I also gave a WAG on the demo and quoted that hourly. But I'd still bet I'm within a day one way or the other in my guesstimate.
If you still don't buy it, there's a guy here on this forum who I did a similar job for last summer. It was a bit bigger and the roof framing was a little more complicated with a dormer in the front hip section and we knocked that one down in a week too. Maybe he'll chime in. Here's that addition...
EDIT: The more I think about this, the more I see the absurdity. I guess that's why bidding work over the internet will probably never become very popular. You and I could be envisioning two very different jobs based on the limited information we've been given. I'm seeing a very basic frame, so given the basic information we've been given, I gave a very basic estimate. I'll tell you this though.... my estimate will only go up from where it is now. I can think of plenty of conditions that would add time/money to the job and very few that would make it go down. Maybe you're envisioning more of these hiccups right out of the gate than I am.
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Edited 3/6/2006 10:10 am ET by dieselpig
ican see four good guys, forklift, and no roofing or prep, one good week.
me, i'd hire dieselpig and mark it up...
or , i'd do it with your three men, demo, tie, headscratching, frame two floors and roof & sheath.....
two weeks minimumMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Wanna come up to Lake Placid?
Don't be fooled....just cause I'm fast doesn't mean I'm cheap. The speed factor goes in my pocket, not yours. ;)
Reason # 9000 why there's not much work I'll do hourly or by the day. When guys ask me how long I think job 'X' is going to take I throw a pretty meaningless number at them. Short enough that it won't blow their schedule, and long enough that they don't re-crunch my numbers and try to figure out what I "should" be making per day.View Image
We know you aren't cheap, Brian. We are just wondering if you and a couple crew members would like to drive up to Lake Placid to knock it out, enjoy the mountain air, catch a trout, whatever. A relaxing little road trip sometime in the first half of May. Could be fun.
All you would need is small tools like a few guns, skilsaws, chopsaw, hand tools. We have all the rest. No way one could get a Lull back there. We have the ladders, jacks, pumpjacks, picks, etc.
Oh.... you were serious. I'm sorry dude, but that flew right over my head. I'd guess I'd consider just about anything, but I can't imagine how it would be cost effective for you when you figure in travel time and a pair of hotel rooms for a week. Also don't know if my insurance is any good for NY either. I don't know the answer, but I doubt it. Never tried to work out of state to be honest.
I can't believe that you don't have a framer near you that would love to have something like that as a 'filler'. I'm home right now beating the bushes looking for exactly such a job to fill in a week between my last job and the next one where they hit water while digging the foundation. Doesn't anybody else build over there?
You said, "We know you aren't cheap, Brian." Two things about that: By your reaction, it sounds like you think I sounded arrogant. I'm sorry if you took it that way, really I am. I thought we were talking hypotheticals and was just trying to stress that I tend to view our production times as none of the customer's business, as long the time frame agreed upon in the contract is met. Sometimes guys try to pick apart my numbers as they feel they know what I "should need" to make in a day... and then try to tailor the price to suit the dreamt up figure in their head.
I'm actually quite reasonably priced or I wouldn't still be in business. Framing has always been a very competitive sub market and may even be more competitive now than it ever has been with all the illegitimate and half/legit crews available for hire on the cheap. We do try to squeek a few dollars more out by offering what I truly believe is a superior product to the current industry standard, but I wouldn't have much work if we were outrageously priced.View Image
Two weeks.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
$1000
blue
You wouldn't touch it, would you?View Image
Right now I would. We'd stand that up in a day or so, just like you. I didn't look at the dimensions that closely, but it looks like four guys would be tripping over one another.
We do small additions like that for a builder on occasion. For simple stuff we charge a flat 10 sf and that looks simple. Most of the demo is done and he does all the cleanup. He doesn't mind us submitting bills for anything that we didn't have covered in our very loose agreement. The entire deal is based on trust.
blue
I've got a couple of those arrangements too... they're great for fill ins while I'm waiting for the next foundation. One guy doesn't even ask me for a price. In fact I'm praying for one for this week as a matter of fact. It's funny how I always try my hardest to give the best deal to the guy who doesn't ask me for a price?!?! How's that work?
I'm literally sitting here looking around my the first floor of my house wondering how long it'll take me to pack it all up to the new second floor and get it out of the way to start tearing down walls tomorrow. That's one good thing about living in a work in progress.... I guess you've always got work.
Now to convince the wife that the time is right...... right now!View Image
On a remo addition like that, you can spend as much time on demo and tie-in as you do on that actuall framing.
THAT is the kicker!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
No doubt.... and it's often harder work too. I like working hard.... I just don't like hard work!View Image
I'll take either one. It's the suprises that hurt - like the rotted sill or the missing header...'course, the older you get, the harder it is to be truly suprised.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!