I’ve got 2 photos here, neither very specific to the topic, both showing a 30″ dia. by 40′ tall fir tree close to a house. It needs to be removed by an insured tree removal person who can do it without hitting the house or a couple of madrone trees about 20 feet away. What do you suppose this will cost, not including cutting up the trunk or hauling anything?
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$275 by a fellow that meets 'licensed and insured'
that's here in Indiana -
and that tree doesn't look to be 30" -
and it would appear to be taller than 40', unless some of the top is missing -
"and that tree doesn't look 30 "
and " it would appear to be taller than 40 '
are YOU even sure there 's even a tree there? lol
"Skeptism" with a capital "S"
ya - well I gotta wonder - in the setup...
...I've got 2 photos here, neither very specific to the topic, both showing a 30" dia. by 40' tall fir tree close to a house....
so, are the picts of the actual tree in question? if so, it doesn't appear to be described accurately - - if not, all bets are off, since it's the specifics that make the case -
my guy would drive up in a pick-up and be driving off with a check a half hour later (What do you suppose this will cost, not including cutting up the trunk or hauling anything?), but if it's actually a different tree, maybe with not such a clear fall path, and maybe with a compromised (hollow or split) trunk - then here comes the boom truck, and maybe there's not such a clear set-up area, etc, etc -
"there's enough for everyone"
In the San Francisco Bay Area where I had to have a 65' pine tree removed a couple of years ago, the estimate from the major tree removal companies was about $2500. In Portland, where I am now, I am told that the removal of a similar tree would be be about $800 - lots more unemployed loggers in the Willamette Valley than in the Bay Area.
Of course, you can always do it the way I did for one of mine - rent a manlift and take it down about a foot at a time. Makes for a very long day, however...
David, that doesn't look like much of a problem tree to fell, honestly. It appears to be leaning away from the house, and it could be felled with a 'hinge' to make it twist and drop into that open area in the first photo. You'd have to move that little shed out of the way, of course, but it looks like a couple of guys could just pick it up and walk away with it....
I don't know about prices out your way; I took down ten trees for a client this afternoon, including a couple that size. I've got some cleanup left to do tomorrow and the whole job will probably clock out at 5 hours, so that's a bit under $200. No climbing spurs or rigging needed. But I'm not licensed and insured.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Do you climb?
Do you climb?
Only if I can't avoid it, LOL. Heights don't bother me, but I've never gotten a real warm, comfy feeling out of that whip you experience when the upper section kicks the trunk sideways as it falls. And I purely hate being strapped in place when I might prefer to dodge. You never know when Murphy's gonna sneeze, after all....
I prefer to rig the tree down, if that's possible, putting preventers on it so it can't fall where it mayn't. With big conifers that are well furnished with large bushy branches, I have been known to rig a pair of opposing tackles to the upper part of the trunk and then lower it slowly to rest on the roof of the house in its way, not even scratching the paint. It's a lot safer to take it apart while standing on a nice, solid roof than while you're waving around 75 feet up on a skinny little pole.
Unfortunately, that's not always possible, so....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Im gonna mention why I asked .
Since you climb mountains and ski I thought maybe your butt hung on the edge on this one too. <G>
Side bar;
Have a very good family friend thats a GC that builds custom homes. He was down on his luck several years ago and wanted to try to finish his own drywall . I advised against it since hes a kick butt carp and his time is worth far more than trying to finish a 4000 sg fter by him self. Anyway , I loaned him three sets of stilts. Short to tall. Two days later he brought them back and said he couldnt walk the little ones which are 18 inches. I said whats the deal? He just coulnt deal with it . I said thats funny to me and he asked well why becuse thats not very nice . I told him I had seen him walk a 12 foot wall not braced properly and I was scared watching . He said yea, that is funny.
Tim
You'd be doing him a favour to drop it ON the little shed! ediot - this was meant to be funny, but now that I see the limbs have started falling, it seems out of place. guess I'll duck and run now
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 11/1/2005 3:42 pm ET by Piffin
That tree dosen't need to be cut down. Leave it alone.
I watched a do-it-yourselfer drop a 40" diameter 60ft. Oak dead in the middle of his Chevy Nova parked in the driveway.
"
I watched a do-it-yourselfer drop a 40" diameter 60ft. Oak dead in the middle of his Chevy Nova parked in the driveway.
"You have to be careful dropping an oak....a Nova makes a perfect soft landing spot!Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
a Nova makes a perfect soft landing spot
True enough, but the sawyers sure don't like mirrors or antennae in the buck . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Mostly helpful responses. Yours is definitely the dumbest, so I'll reply to you.
The tree needs to come down. There is an addition being built and that tree is in the middle of the future bathtub.
Any other helpful comments?
Back off. I though Kowboy's comment was interesting. And if you don't like the occasional dumb response, Breaktime isn't your forum.
And if you can't handle the occasional snap back then it isn't yours either.
You might want to back it off a bit yourself, dude. You're entitled to think Kowboy's comment was interesting...but David is just as entitled to think it was dumb, too.
As for your suggestion that 'Breaktime isn't [David's] forum', since he's been here for two years and has contributed almost six times as many posts as you have in a longer period of time, I'd suggest you aren't particularly well-placed to make that kind of comment.
Chill.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Touchy touchy. I've been here for considerably longer than two years (under my previous name -- Javier -- before I had to re-register) , but what does that have to do with it? You actually checked to see which of us had the most posts?? To find out which of us had the right to lecture the other?? Maybe YOU are spending too much time on BT.
Anyway, I hope David solves his tree problem, and that is the main thing. I just thought Kowboy's story about the car was funny and I didn't mean to offend. May I point out that the first one of us to be nasty was David who characterized Kowboy's post as, and I quote, "stupid."
You actually checked to see which of us had the most posts??
No; I checked to see which of you participated more in the forum. Since you've been here 'considerably longer than two years' and have only contributed 400-odd posts in all that time, that indicates you have more interest in being a lurker than in being part of the community. Which is fine in itself, but for you to tell an active, well-respected member of that community to go elsewhere is a bit out of line, IMHO....
Kowboy looks like a relative newbie who so far doesn't seem to have found a way to post without cheesing off people from time to time. He either will figure that out as time goes on, or he won't, in which case I'll ignore him. I don't like some of the things he's posted, but I chalk that up to his newness and will refrain from jumping in his sh!t until it becomes obvious what the story is. I made some gaffs of my own when I first joined the forum, and people tolerated those; so as they say, what goes around, comes around....
But generally, when somebody starts posting in the imperative voice--which is to say, giving orders--it's going to piss people off. Especially when they do not have all the information necessary to evaluate what the situation they are commenting on really is. Kowboy ordered David to "Leave that tree alone." You then ordered David to "Back off." Neither one of those comments added anything positive to the discussion and both annoyed more than a few people.
I merely suggested you might want to consider taking a bit of your own advice, after all....
Now if you're really interested in finding out about felling trees, get back on topic. It's a particularly dangerous kind of work, and a post giving good technical tips on that shouldn't get hijacked by a pissing contest.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
I do not consider "cheesing people off from time to time" unfair or inaccurate criticism and far from an insult. I would love to know which things I've posted you liked (if any) and didn't like and what you consider "gaffs".
We agree that technical tips shouldn't get hijacked by a pissing contest. I smile everytime I see your signature picture with your daughter(?).
We agree that technical tips shouldn't get hijacked by a pissing contest. I smile everytime I see your signature picture with your daughter(?).
Actually, that's my son. That picture is from a bit over a year ago; hard to tell sometimes when they're that age.
I do not consider "cheesing people off from time to time" unfair or inaccurate criticism and far from an insult. I would love to know which things I've posted you liked (if any) and didn't like and what you consider "gaffs".
I haven't been keeping a list, actually. I figure you'll get the hang of it sooner or later. I could pass on advice I received from one older and wiser than I, which is that it helps to remember when posting to a forum like this that it's easy to misinterpret what someone was thinking when they wrote their post because you couldn't look into their eyes as they were writing it. So a good policy is to ask for clarification if in doubt as to the intent...or just wait a while before replying to see if further posts by other participants will make the meaning clearer. There's no hurry, after all....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Am I a lurker? Maybe -- as I DIYer I definitely benefit more from the postings than I contribute, so that is a fair criticism. And it's a criticism that could be levelled at any non-pro on the forum. I meant no offense to David, and he doesn't seem to have taken any, since his recent postings to me have been cordial. Having said that, I do not think it's your place to lecture me on forum etiquette. Nowhere is it written that participants have to pass some probationary period, or contribute a critical number of useful posts before they can crack a joke or needle another participant.
But, Piffin is right, the branches are falling, so this is my last comment on this issue. You can have the last word, if you like.
Actually, I used the word 'dumbest' but that's beside the point. If this forum had a half-decent search function you would be able to see that I've mouthed off at him before too. Why he was even slightly motivated to post what he did is beyond me. We've all heard stories of trees falling on unintended targets, and he has absolutely no idea about what it is I need to do or why. An uncontrollable urge to push the reply button... every forum has a few.
Hope your tree problem gets solved. This is actually a very interesting thread. I've dropped a few trees in the 12 in dbh range, but nothing bigger. Sometimes I'm able to direct the fall, sometimes I'm not so successful. I do make sure everything and everyone is well out of the way, and I give myself a good escape path. We had a tree guy look at some trees that were pretty close to our Maine cabin -- he said not to worry, they were so close, that if they fell, they would not generate sufficient force to smash things up. Hope he's right.
The entire problem is actually the lack of a rentable boom truck or lift here. If I had a Genie 65 I could just do it myself and pocket the difference. These days I'm too chicken to climb a 20 foot ladder much less a tree while carrying a chainsaw. The guy with the spurs and the ballz wins.
My apologies. Ever since my grandfather-in-law cut down a spectacular 100ft. 70" diameter beauty for "fear of falling on the house", I always try to save the tree. My reaction was instinctual, no malice intended.
I thought my post offered helpful consequences to consider as did CaseyR's. I've been called much worse than "dumb" but I don't recall your "mouthing off at him (me) before". I always appreciate feedback, good or bad, on my posts.
Golly -- was the car OK?
The Nova was totaled. I appreciate the support.
"Golly -- was the car OK?"
Must be a low-rider now.http://www.costofwar.com/
Dunno, david, those big firs look nice, and provide real landscaping value to the house. Are their roots crowding the foundation? Consider you'll miss their shade next summer.
For $100 I'll drop the two next to the front steps.
http://www.costofwar.com/
Edited 11/1/2005 1:31 am ET by Pierre1
Edited 11/1/2005 1:33 am ET by Pierre1
probably get someone to just fall the doug fir but way I've seen they usually trim off the branches then cut the trunk in 2 or 3' sections until she's down to the ground
more work but more sure $500 - $650 insured
Around here - $500 - $800. Stuff like that all depends on it's proximity to something that matters - like houses and power lines. No way I'd get someone who wasn't licensed and insured for that job. Even though it is leaning well away from the structure, I'd guess that a pro still might take it down in pieces.
Dont pay to have that tree taken down....let nature do it for free. <G>
Stan
I remember that you posted an areal photo of your shop. I wonder if a new photo would look anydifferent now that you have a new found liking for trees in the vicinity of a structure? :-) ie - more "open space"?
ya finally got around to cleaning and straightening it up, eh?
$500 to $800 around here. You don't touch a thing. The shed can stay and my guy takes care of clean up and disposal. They use a boom truck with a box bed under the boom, and pull a chipper with them. You get to keep the stump.
Dave
Oud neighbor had a similar elm tree dropped about 10 years ago. I believe it ran them $800. Everything dropped in the yard - Nothing hauled off.
after these hurricanes, thats a $2000 tree.
Dave, I don't know your location or address, but IF i'm ever in your area, i'll cut it down for a coffee and do-nut. All it will take is approx 3 minutes (a direction notch,and then a back cut and it's down) .thump!
There was an article in the paper a month or two back about an unlicenced tree trimmer who was removing a tree from some people's yard. He clobbered a power line, which blew a transformer... which then domino'ed and took out the power to two small towns. Also some localized damage by power surges. They put the total damage figure at $100k. Last I heard, the tree trimmer and property owner were going to get hit for the tab.
But as someone already mentioned, you could just take it down a foot or two at a time. Not as dramatic as yelling "timber!" and watching the whole thing fall, but it gets the job done.
jt8
"Real difficulties can be overcome; it is only the imaginary ones that are unconquerable. " --Theodore N. Vail
Funny you started this thread and I havent read it .
I just paid to have a 60 footer cut down by the house that a limb killed my jeep. Reputable tree cuter with a boom truck4 ton charged 300.00 . He told me though in La they would get 1000.00 easy right now. Several of our tree trimmers are working in greener pastures.
Oh yea, as some else said ; they used a chipper truck tied to a flat bed dump for the tree and hauled it all off . Yes, I got to keep the stump.
Tim
Edited 11/1/2005 9:42 am by Mooney
Dont know about you but our HD rents a stump chipper. My neighbor took down 100 pines 4 inch to28 inches for the wood. Hes 72 . Saved me a bundle. The power co. was real nervous about the trees that hung over their lines and offered to cut them. He declined. I rented a small cat and used the winch to pull the stumps, he was my choker setter.
I guess I should have added that the tree that I got the $2500 quote to remove in the Bay Area had a large limb that hung out over a power line (it was a higher voltage line running along the top of the poles and a standard municiple voltage line running on "T" bars lower down on the poles.) I would have taken it down my self but have this aversion to acting as a grounding conductor to high voltages...
After getting bids of way more than I wanted to pay to have it removed, I contacted some guy from Craigs List who said that he would do it for $800. I was an absentee landlord at the time, living about 600 miles away and the house was handled by a rental management firm. I told the guy that he would need to show the rental management company his proof of insurance and make arrangements with them for payment for his services. I never heard anything more from him, but since he hadn't contacted them the rental management company said they had contacted him and he said he was no longer interested in doing the job.
Only later did one of the neighbors tell me that he had come out, dropped the limb on the high voltage power line which caught the limb on fire and which then dropped on someones car. The fire department came out to put out the burning limb. At least thirty houses or so were without power (didn't find out for how long). It has been about three years and I have heard nothing official about this from the power company or the owner of the car - or the fire department or the city for that matter. I am hoping that there is a three year statute of limitations regarding this that kicks in about yesterday...
The only good thing about it was that with the overhanging limb removed and since I had removed most of the limbs on the opposite side of the tree, I was finally able to get an insured tree guy to take down the remainder of the tree for $1200, not including cleaning up or picking up anything.
The quote I got was $900. Limb the whole thing, lower the limbs that are over the roof. Drop the trunk in 3 sections without hitting the other trees. Leave the whole mess. It seems kinda high to me. I have an excavator coming separately so it won't be hard to move the stuff. There's a good open space to burn the small stuff.
Around here it's hard to get stuff like this done. It can be hard to get anything done. The guy I found has the requisite insurance and can name me as additional insured. Did I mention what a hassle that whole element is? He'll 'bid' the job and says he can show up on schedule to do the work. My other option is T&M with a guy who doesn't return calls, quote prices, or schedule in advance. Or, I could get Asplundh to bring a truck over on the ferry... probably cost thousands that way.
If I could skirt the insurance reqs I bet I could get someone for a few hundred to drop it and haul it all away.
The photos don't show it but the incoming power lines are tied to the tree and then run over the roof to the weatherhead. Same with the phone. So to add to the hassle and expense I have to get the utilities out to move their lines to a temp pole.
Will throw in a few tree pixs here too.
Had a 42" DBH leaning toward the pump house, dropped it OK, had to cable it a little to be precise of the fall. Measured 168 ft dropped, was tallest treee around, even bigger than some of the 120 YO D.Fir.
82 YO neighbor logged in the Cascades in the 50's, let him make the final backcut for 'old times sake'
Last pix - the poor 440C does not like a wet cottonwood stump this size, just a 'little' front heavy.
I took down a couple 25 ft. Italian Cypress myself. Cut most of the limbs off, dug out around the stump about 18" deep and cut as many roots as I could. Then I pulled them over with the truck. It took a lot of pulling, but had the advantage of using the trunk to lever the stump out of the ground. On one of them, I had to go back and do more digging and root cutting. I had the rope fairly high up, and both of them pretty much came down straight behind the truck.
-- J.S.
It took a lot of pulling, but had the advantage of using the trunk to lever the stump out of the ground.
John, a good trick for getting stumps out is to use an old door or a pair of sheer-legs to redirect and multiply the pulling force. Like this: stand the door or sheer legs up above the stump, leaning slightly towards it, say about 15-20 degrees from the vertical. Run the chain up and over the top of it and then down to the stump. Spike the chain to the top of the door so it can't slip and will haul the door with it.
Now pull. The leverage of the door or sheer-legs being hauled upright as it travels up through the arc towards the pull will amaze you.
Note you do need to make sure the bottom of the door or sheer legs can't sink in or slip sideways.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
What kind of door would work for this?I imagine the forces would be pretty high, high enough to split most doors. Can a pine raised panel door with a center mullion withstand the forces?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
luan hollow core -
"there's enough for everyone"
Roar! Doud beat me to the joke, LOL.
I learned this trick from Ashley, who noted it as a technique used by farmers to pull stumps using horses or mules. So I guess it would be save to say that pretty much any door built using the techniques and materials that applied when horses and mules were still the standard source of power on a farm would probably do the trick.
I've used a pair of sheer legs made out of 2x to pull old foundation piers that were 6' deep in the mud and basically glued there by the suction. Not having a mule handy, I hitched a 4-part purchase to the chain, made off the stationery block to a very large rock, and pulled those piers up one after the other with me own muscles....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
I was going to do the same (suggest a Masonite door) but Doud got there first. lol
Nice old-timey terminology there Mr. Dinosaure. What's a 4-part purchase - a four-wrap prussik loop? I like that "made off" bit too. And a Cockney finish to boot, perchance?
:)
http://www.costofwar.com/
There are stumps and then there are stumps. Have not been able to buy dynamite since 1972.
Have seen a D10 need to dig around a big DFir stump to finally get it out. Think a D10 has about 400,000# drawbar pull.
Got a 8 ft dia DFir stump still in the back from the old virgin forest (logged 1917 have been told), maybe some day work on it, still standing about 10 ft high, the springboard cuts 7 ft off the ground.
Tried to pull one of 2 1000 YO stumps that were about 10 ft apart with 2 big blocks, 3/4" wire rope, and a 6 ton roller chain come along, had been told a pull a day on the that setup with the 2 blocks and one pull a day on the comealong would pull one or the other out of the ground. 6 months later nothing had moved, even after cutting a couple of 1 ft dia roots on one.
Got a 8 ft dia DFir stump still in the back from the old virgin forest (logged 1917 have been told), maybe some day work on it, still standing about 10 ft high, the springboard cuts 7 ft off the ground.
Hm. I gather that there are folks who might be interested in the lumber from an old-growth stump like that, if it were millable into lumber.
Just a thought.
Jason
"Have seen a D10 need to dig around a big DFir stump to finally get it out."
Ever try to take out an elm tree stump?
When we were building the SHFH I decided to take out a dead elm tree to make the tree line to the west look better. I cut the tree down and cut it up for firewood. But I left about 4' of stump stick out so I could take it out.
When we were moving dirt around there, I borrowed a Cat 935 (?) crawler. It weighs about 28,000#.
I figured while I had it there I'd take that stump out. So I put the bucket up against the stump, opened the throttle until the engine had a satisfying rumble to it, and waited to see the stump come out.
Nothing happened.
I tried pushing from a couple of different angles, but still couldn't budge it.
Then I got ticked off. (Getting mad seems to short-circuit good sense)
I backed up about 15 feet, put the dozer in 3rd gear, opened the throttle all the way, and turned it loose. The dozer took off towards the stump at a pretty good clip.
The bucket hit that stump and I was thrown out of my seat. I ended up flopped over the dash and feeling pretty stupid. (No seat belt on the dozer)
I sat back down and backed the dozer up so I could see my handiwork. I had done little but put a dent in the bark.
I did a quick look-around to see if anyone had seen my little stunt. No one had, so I sheepishly went back to moving dirt and never said a word about it to anyone.
People forget how fast you did a job, but they remember how well you did it. [Howard W. Newton]
Ive seen a dozer take an Elm out by digging under and lifting while pushing thus using all the hydralics but have never dont it . I have tried with a backhoe several times and end up digging a hole around it . I also busted a hydralic line once. Anymore I either let them rot or use the limbs to burn them out . Normally next year is better or the next. Then they are easy . I figgure you have to burn somwhere and I set fire to those suckers. I like to use round turkey feeders that are rusted out which are about 4ft diameter. It reflects the heat back to the stump. A bottom gone burning barrell does the same thing but is much smaller. If you see anything in your travels like that snatch it up if its free. Some people stake sheet iron around huge ones. You can burn a stump out on a couple of loads of wood.
Tim
I couldn't really dig a hole around this one. There were trees I wanted to keep just north and south of it. And it was only 3' from the property line, so I didn't have access to the other side. The stump is well on it's way to rotting now, so I'll likely be able to dig it out this winter with just a shovel. Got a big hedge (osage orange) tree to take out also. That oughta make some good firewood for Mom + Dad.
People get real comfortable with their features. Nobody gets comfortable with their hair. Hair trauma. It's the universal thing. [Jamie Lee Curtis]
I seem to remember from some time back that people facilitated the rotting of the stumps by drilling holes in the top of the stump and pouring something in the holes to speed the disintegration. Don't remember what it was.
Ok, did a quick Google and came up with:
http://landscaping.about.com/cs/lazylandscaping/ht/stump_removal.htm
http://www.treehelp.com/howto/howto-remove-a-tree-3.asp (Not really much info here, but I think I like option 5)
http://asktrapperjohn.com/topics/stumpremoval.htm
and one of several commercial preparations
http://www.valuegardens.com/images/labels/d0524_label.pdf
I've also heard that taking a leak on a stump will hasten the rotting process. Don't know why. But it's something I'm good at, so why not?
Trust each other again and again. When the trust level gets high enough, people transcend apparent limits, discovering new and awesome abilities for which they were previously unaware. [David Armistead]
Got a big hedge (osage orange) tree to take out also. That oughta make some good firewood for Mom + Dad.
Central trunk, or multiples going every which way?jt8
"Real difficulties can be overcome; it is only the imaginary ones that are unconquerable. " --Theodore N. Vail
The west side of my house is an old hedge row. So I have several hedge trees growing every which way. The one I REALLY need to cut down is a "leaner" that's trying to lay over in the yard. The trunk is 10-12" thick at the base. That's why I said it would make a lot of firewood.I've pruned up a ton of stuff, but don't really have it anything like I want it yet. Keep getting involved in farming, seeding ponds, etc. (-:
Did you hear about the terrorist that hijacked a 747 full of lawyers? He threatened to release one every hour if his demands weren't met.
I've pruned up a ton of stuff, but don't really have it anything like I want it yet. Keep getting involved in farming, seeding ponds, etc. (-:
I've heard that you can really prune those into quite a natural barrier. I still haven't found a location to plant my osage nursery. Got 4-9 plants that have outgrown their buckets. Grown from Springfield, Mattoon, and NY stock. :)
Just want to be sure you aren't just making a bonfire out of them, so I'll point out some closed eBay auctions:
Here's someone who got $10 for a 10x11" piece of osage lumber.
Beautiful-Highly-Figured-Clear-Osage-Orange-Lumber
Looks like the hedge apples sell for anywhere from $.01/ea to $4/ea.
A stave which brought $66
OSAGE-ORANGE-HEDGE-bow-stave-staves-billitsExcellent-73-Inch-Osage-Orange-Hedge-Bow-Stave-Staves
(I've seen staves go for from $0-90, but don't know what qualities make it so valuable or worthless).
Couple little 3" blocks for $10.
Here's a couple 6-7' 7/8" planks that sold for $105.
Osage-Orange-Hedge-Boards-Lumber-Wood-Lot-of-2
Interesting mesquite/osage cutting board
Solid-Wood-Cutting-Board-Mesquite-and-Osage-Orange
jt8
"Real difficulties can be overcome; it is only the imaginary ones that are unconquerable. " --Theodore N. Vail
"I've heard that you can really prune those into quite a natural barrier"
The stuff is like multiflora rose - Grows like a weed and is hard to kill. No way I would ever plant the stuff.
I don't think this is straight enough to make valuable lumber out of. Basically all it's good for is firewood and fence posts.
Bumpersticker: Prevent death on the road. Drive on the sidewalk
I actually paid quite a bit for some 1x10x8' from C.F. Martin Guitars shop, sold as a body stock for acoustic guitars....awesome quality and tone. Also stiff enough for other elements in lutherie.
With the rosewood supply being so iffy, I love to use native woods. I have used dogwood with ebonizing to create really good fingerboards, Catalpa for necks, and cedar for sound boards..don't dismiss Osage as a nusiance tree. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"I don't think it's funny no more" Nick Lowe.
I've been trying to tell him that Osage is actually a popular wood with about 1001 uses, but he won't believe me. Insists is just a garbage tree.
If you want to talk about garbage trees, I'll bring up those dang Mulberries that keeps sprouting up anywhere the mower doesn't cover every week.
jt8
"Real difficulties can be overcome; it is only the imaginary ones that are unconquerable. " --Theodore N. Vail
I don't think this is straight enough to make valuable lumber out of. Basically all it's good for is firewood and fence posts.
They are probably making bows out of the staves. So a bit of twist or curve is probably a plus.
jt8
"Real difficulties can be overcome; it is only the imaginary ones that are unconquerable. " --Theodore N. Vail
If you want some of the stuff, peddle your a$$ down here and I'll fix ya up. (-:.I may be cutting on it Sunday....Or not. An adorable divorced blonde friend with big boobs has two dead trees by her house that I've been meaning to get cut down for her. So Sunday I may go check out that pair.
A beauty is a woman you notice; A charmer is one who notices you. [Adlai Stevenson]
Right after church??
Haven't heard back what time will work for her. She'll probably call me after school today.
Q: What do electric trains and women's breasts have in common?
A: They were originally intended for children, but it's the men who play with them the most.
What grade is she in ?
"Other than telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and now, die, I think the Republicans have done a fine job of getting government out of our personal lives" -Craig Carter.
"What grade is she in ?"
First grade.
She TEACHES first grade, that is.
What kind of pervert do you think I am ???
Q: Did you hear about the cannibal who was expelled from school?
A: He was buttering up his teacher.
Well, I wondered...;o)
"Other than telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and now, die, I think the Republicans have done a fine job of getting government out of our personal lives" -Craig Carter.
Well the 2 trees are close to her house - Close enough that they could fall and hit it. She's a single Mom with a deadbeat Husband, so I'd hate to see that happen. Like I've said before, I'm a helpful "hands-on" type of guy.Assuming I do work on them this weekend - I can post pics of the pair if you like. I kind of HINTED to her that she could maybe invite me to stay for dinner after I cut the trees down for her. I figured I ought milk the situation for all it's worth.
I'm as confused as a breast fed baby in a topless bar.
I envision the third boob is you...(G) Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"I don't think it's funny no more" Nick Lowe.
Now that you have thoroughly established just what kind of pervert you are...You know I am going to be expecting pictures of BOTH pairs afterward...=0)
"Other than telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and now, die, I think the Republicans have done a fine job of getting government out of our personal lives" -Craig Carter.
>What kind of pervert do you think I am ???
Probably just the usual kind...:-)
Nice old-timey terminology there Mr. Dinosaure. What's a 4-part purchase - a four-wrap prussik loop? I like that "made off" bit too.
Not "old-timey", my rock-climbing friend: "precise". The misuse of technical terminology is the bane of the sloppy language use promoted the great majority of so-called teachers in this 'doesn't matter' modern age of ours....
To quote Ashley: "A purchase is a tackle that has the same number of shivs in both blocks. With the fall leading to the upper [fixed] block of a purchase, the increase in power is always represented by an even number."
In fact, Ashley uses the term "fourfold purchase", which is yet more precise than the way I put it. My bad....
When the fall (the part you haul on; sometimes referred to as the "hauling part") leads to the fixed block, it is not counted among the parts that add to the mechanical advantage of the system. However, when the fall leads to the moving block--ie: the one made off ('attached') to the load that will be moved--it is counted, and thus a four-part purchase can give you a fivefold advantage when rigged 'upside down' like that.
You determine the theoretical mechanical advantage in a system by counting the number of parts (lengths of rope) between the two blocks. So if you have two blocks with two shivs each, you will have four parts between them, plus the falls coming off the last shiv. Each block contains one or more shivs (or pulleys). Mistakenly calling a block a pulley is egregiously common and ought to be cause for gettin' flogged round the fleet....
The word 'tackle', BTW, is pronounced TAY-kle, not 'tack-ul'.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Two power failures in a row, so this is my third attempt at an answer. I've got myself dug in pretty good now. lol
Thanks for being magnaminous, Dino. I just hate being flogged 'round the fleet.
Back to our nautical purchase. Neat word - purchase - says what it does.
Knot-nerd alert:
So then a four-fold purchase gains or loses 1x in mechanical advantage when its position is reversed? What I need to clear up is the bit about "the fall leading to the upper block". Does that mean that if we're pulling down on a line (the fall) that is coming down and out of the last shiv on the upper block, we have a greater mech advantage than if the purchase were reversed, and we were hauling up on the same fall coming up and out of the same last shiv on the very same block, only now this block is in the lower position, made fast to the load rather than to the anchor?
Or have I got this mixed up?http://www.costofwar.com/
Does that mean that if we're pulling down on a line ... we have a greater mech advantage than if the purchase were reversed, and we were hauling up on the same fall ..., made fast to the load rather than to the anchor?
Or have I got this mixed up?
It's less complicated than it seems, LOL. Remember that whether you are pulling down or up--or sideways--makes no difference to the mechanical advantage of the system. What does make a difference is which block is fast to the anchor, and which is made off to the load.
If the block with the hauling part leading out of it is made off to the anchor point (the usual case), you count the parts between the two blocks to find your mechanical advantage. So if you're using two double-shiv¹ blocks, you will have four parts of rope between the blocks, and a fifth part--the hauling part--leading away from the fixed block but not going back to the moving block. That fifth part thus adds nothing to the mechanical advantage; all it does is change the direction of the fall for the convenience of the crew doing the heaving.
OTOH, if the block with the hauling part leading out of it is made off to the load, you count the parts between the blocks plus the hauling part² to obtain the mechanical advantage. So for two double blocks, you have four parts between them, plus (1) for the hauling part, for a total theoretical³ mechanical advantage of five.
Notes:
1. Ashley has the word as 'shiv', which is the traditional spelling; later references give it as 'sheave'. They both refer to the same thing, the grooved wheel in a block upon which the rope rides.
2. Ashley states the rule for mechanical advantage as I've described it above; Brion Toss makes it slightly more simply, saying to count the parts coming off the moving block
3. The word 'theoretical' refers to the fact you always lose a certain percentage to friction (about 5% by R.O.T.; the range is 2%-8%) for each shiv in a system.
If this is still confusing, we can go a little further into the theory behind it all. It helps to understand why a tackle gives you a mechanical advantage in the first place. You ready for this...?
Start with a single block containing a single shiv. Make off the block to an anchor overhead. Reeve a line through the shiv and make off one end to a load, say, a bunch of 2x's you want to haul up to the second-floor deck of the house. This tackle is called a single whip.
Now go pull down on the other end of that line. If you (a) weigh more than the 2x's, and (b) are strong enough to lift at least your own weight, then the 2x's will rise up towards the anchor. But you will have no mechanical advantage in this system. For each foot of rope you haul down, the load will rise one foot upwards: the bitter end of the falls is free to move (bringing the load with it), and the load and the hauling force are equal (not counting the 5% rule-of-thumb loss you incur by reeving the line through that one shiv.)
But now let's change things a bit. These 2x's you want up on the deck are 2x10x16' rafter stock, and there are lots of them. Green, too, LOL. So (unless you are Luka), you do not weigh enough to get them off the ground. Every time you haul down, you simply hoist yourself up off the ground and the pile of lumber stays where it is laffin' atcha. Duh....
Okay. You're too proud to holler to Luka for help, so you change your rig. Unbend ('detatch') the line from the load, and go up and make it off to the anchor overhead. Unshackle the block from the anchor, and go back down and make it off to the load. Now climb back up to the second floor deck again (sigh...), bringing the fall with you. Voilà , you have just rigged a runner tackle, which gives you a 2x mechanical advantage.
Make sure you've got a clear picture of this, now. You're up at the same level, more or less, as the anchor point. The line starts at the anchor, goes down to the load--where it is rove through a block attached to that load--and then it comes back up to you.
Now heave on that fall.
Amazing! The bundle of rafters rises magically off the ground. But you notice that it seems to be going slowly: For each foot of line you haul up through your hands, that daggone bundle of 2x10s only comes up 6 inches. What's going on?
Well, several things. First is that you are now sharing the load with the anchor point (two parts leaving the load, each going to a different fixed point) instead of asking that anchor point to try to hold up both you and the load (two parts leaving the anchor, each going to a different load). I'm describing you as either a 'fixed point' or a 'load' here depending on whether or not you can haul yourself up in the air (you can't in the new set-up, because you're pulling up with your arms, and pushing down with your legs against the deck).
The other thing that's going on is, since you can't move the other end of the fall by hauling on your end (because it's made off to the anchor point), what happens when you heave in is that the length of rope between you and the anchor--the working part of the falls--gets shorter. As a result, it's going to be the apex of the bight of the rope-- where the block is riding--that's going to move towards both you and the anchor as you heave in to shorten the working part of the falls.
But for each one foot you shorten the falls, the block will rise toward you by half that distance, because the apex or centre of the bight constantly adjusts its position along the length of the rope--carrying the block with it, of course--as the working part gets shorter and shorter. When the length of rope between you and the anchor is 30 feet, the center of the bight will be 15 feet from you and 15 feet from the anchor. When you shorten the total length to 29 feet, the center of the bight will be 14½ feet from both ends. Thus, the block, which always rides in the center of the bight, will have moved towards you by only half a foot.
I've left out some detail--things like how the spread angle at the load affects the effective load, among others--but that's basically how it works.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Thanks for taking the trouble to make this perfectly clear.
Love those nautical expressions:
Make fast to
Make off
The fall
The hauling part
Reeve a line
The bitter end
The bight
My ancestor served in a RN frigate in the late 1700s-early 1800s, so I have always been interested in things nautical.http://www.costofwar.com/
just to add "my" tree/truck experience - we had a fire engine hit some black ice, cross a street and end up hitting a tree - I was a trainee and the officers had us check out the engine to get an idea of the damage - I asked what the engine weighed and was told I could probably have the answer for them by lunch - figured out a fully equipped engine with 3 FF on board was about 42,000 lbs - the dent in the front was about 3 1/2 ft in diameter, went about 2 ft into the cab (lucky it hit pretty much in the center so the guys weren't crushed) - tree had some bark damage, two of the three guys on board ended up with back injuries and retiredto get back to the original post/question - has anyone suggested seeing if that tree could be used as a Christmas tree - had a 25 ft evergreen removed from my parents place by the city and my niece & nephew got to throw the switch to light up the city tree
View Image
My ancestor served in a RN frigate in the late 1700s-early 1800s, so I have always been interested in things nautical.
If you don't have this http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=40983&cat=1,46096,46
already, you need to buy it. Written about the ships your ancestor actually served on, this will tell you everything you ever didn't realize you needed to know about sailing ships and their rigging. In addition, it is a typically high-quality Lee Valley product, in a full-cloth binding on absolutely lovely paper.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Sweet. I'll add it to my LV order for Xmas.
I recently ordered a new book, published this Sept., about the clash between the RN and the French/Spanish armada off Cadiz in 1805. There was a write-up on it in the Globe a couple weeks ago. http://www.costofwar.com/
Tim, you didn't keep it to later feed into the woodstove?
jt8
"Real difficulties can be overcome; it is only the imaginary ones that are unconquerable. " --Theodore N. Vail
No Sir . It was a Yellow Pine . I dont know if you have ever handled one of those green but you have to wear gloves you are willing to throw away like brown cotton jerseys. Sap just gets every where and its very sticky. Most of them bleed sap on the out side too. The end cuts are very gooey. They will burn up a small chainsaw or the medium types used for firewood that normally fly through hardwoods. They cant handle all that resistance of pitch . I guess they arent putting out enough bar oil either to counteract it . They only use the high powered pro saws with a lot of horsepower on 60 ft pine trees.
Tim
This guy lives pretty close to you and I hear he is pretty cheap--might want to check his insurance though...
The blush on his face matches his shirt and truck.http://www.costofwar.com/
Depending on how big the canopy is it can be costly.
I had a 135 year old oad that was 2' from my house taken down because it died. The tree limbs starting 40' up were over 2' in diameter. It took a 100' + crane and an entire day to take down. Cost $4,000 including the crane and that was the low bid. Big trees aint cheap.
I had this tree service recommended by a tree sawyer who mills downed trees into boards for you. His recommendation was right on the money. then I had the tree milled.
Anyway get a lot of bids as there are good guys who are expensive and good guys who are reasonable. You just have to find em.
Good luck.
Tim