How not to install STUCCO! www.badstucco.com
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That's a good link. Thanks for posting but you need some work on the photo links since many aren't operational.
I did save it to a file folder tho'.
Cheers.
Edited 3/9/2005 2:44 pm ET by the razzman
"That's a good link.Put it in a file folder."It is??Have you tried to read it?What does this page of pictures tell you about bad stucco.http://www.badstucco.com/bs.htm
heh heh
Might say that page page is really full of bs. bwaa!
I think that page is where the invite to post your own examples of bad stucco and probably why it doesn't work.
But too many others pages don't work either. Sounds like novice web site builders but what do I know.
Some pages do have some pics tho.
Edited 3/9/2005 2:42 pm ET by the razzman
He posted this here last week.And I pointed out a large number of problems with it.I had hoped that he had fixed it up.Among the many problems;1. bad backgrounds make it very hard to read2. no title so after you bookmark it you won't have any idea of what it is about.3. no explaination of who this person is or if he even know stucco from a stickup.4. many bad links.5. where there are pictures all you get is pictures. no text or other information indicating what is good ro what is bad or why.And do you know what OVPK stands for?
Fine, go ahead bust my balls and make me go back and play critic on the the thing.
It's construction related which is a lot better than the common poli-babble. Stucco related threads aren't that common here so I thought I'd greet the guy while I'm doing my weekly chase down of unanswered threads from newbies before they fall thru the cracks.
It's one of those free website forum things which probably has a lot to do with the lack of the thing.
<He posted this here last week.And I pointed out a large number of problems with it.>
Are you saying this is the second time thru for him posting this site?
The badstucco web site is still being worked on. I can not help it if someones eye site is bad!!! Or it does not fit their taste!! And flashing and water repelling moisture barriers are a critical part of a good stucco job! BILL! If you do not like it don't look at it anymore! Are you the cyber cop? If I was a millionaire I would have a better site! But I am not so I am trying!
Actually I think that you something to say.And I would like to learn some more about stucco.But I think that most people that go to your site would quickly give up.And the way it is not I would not trust anything that I saw on it nor would I recommned it to anyone.In fact just after you posted it the first time I saw some questions about stucco in another forum. But I did not refer him to your site.
Ok but I am trying to get it fixed! I am a stucco man not a computer guru! Thanks for your thoughts!
Hey, I'm not Bill but welcome to Breaktime
Went to Bad stucco, looked at a few pics, didn't think much of it, BUT...anyone willing to go through the trouble of putting up a web site gets my respect...
Here's why I'm really posting this....do you know how they do/did pebble dash stucco?
I'd love to know the trick(s)
Yes I know how they do dash! I can be reached at the toll free # on the site.
Thanks Carl
Edited 3/14/2005 7:32 pm ET by stuccoman
I tried to look at the web site. For the pictures, mostly "The page cannot be found".
Stucco, bottom line, is a bad idea. It's extremely heavy, and it's brittle. That's a bad combination, especially here in earthquake country. It's porous, like an extremely hard sponge. So, it fills up with water, and even raises water up into the building through osmosis. It hides all the problems with the moisture barriers that are supposed to be under it. We just had about 34 inches of rain here in LA, which pours thru stucco like it was an open window.
So, I'm looking for a better solution. How about sheathing the place with #1 structural plywood, and then putting some kind of light weight elastomeric watertight coating over the ply?
-- J.S.
Ok Bill try the Leaks 101 A primer and see if that helps.
Thanks Carl
It is much better, however;Well the first thing that I see is"This presentation contains content that your browser may not be able to show properly. This presentation was optimized for more recent versions of Microsoft Internet Explorer.If you would like to proceed anyway, click here."IE is not the only web browser and more and more people are refusing to use it.But it does seem to work, although there might be somethings missing.For example, this appears to be a slideshow that was coverted to internet. For examaple on Slide 6 there are < and > symbols. On my computer they don't do anything. I don't know if they are suppose to be Previous and Next or what. The next screen only shows the >, others nothing.And it needs to be rescaled.Websites should be designed for 800x600, but checked at other resolutions.I run 1280x1024, which is much higher than common. But even at that the slides don't all show in the window. They all have scroll bars. But much of what is srolled out of view is black space. But in other cases the full text and picture can't be seen together. You need to scroll.And put a TITLE on your web page, at least the first one so that if some one bookmarks it they know what it is.
Edited 3/24/2005 9:25 am ET by Bill Hartmann
stuccoman-
I'm glad you care enough to come back and talk. Sometimes folks just drop in to start a thread making their link, question or statement and then never return to follow up.
Hopefully you can get your site a bit more operational.
Welcome to Breaktime. Your years of experience in that trade could be a valuable asset to the forum here as there are few members that speak much about stucco.
Hope to see you posting more.
I have an old house with a foundation wall extending about a foot off the ground before the clapboards begin.
The old foundation is now covered with 1/2" pressure treated plywood. Would it be possible to cover that plywood with stucco?
Thank you . And yes there might be a way to stucco it if there is a way to keep water out of it
Edited 3/11/2005 8:40 am ET by stuccoman
Kudos, Stuccoman. I think your site will be helpful to HOs once you get the kinks worked out. Speaking as someone who is clueless, remember that they're probably completely clueless, so you'll need to categorize everything, point out what exactly they need to pay attention to in each pic or each group of pix. Try to organize things like a "dummies guide" -- lots of bulleted lists, etc. You have a ton of pictures. Maybe start with the best examples of each cardinal sin and then give them a link to more examples so it isn't so overwhelming to you or to the person viewing the site. An executive summary of the "Best Practices" document would be helpful as well -- it is so long than some HO won't have the time to read it or might not understand it...I'd provide a summary then link to the actual document for those who wish to learn more. My 2 cents...
Thanks. That is why there is a toll free# on the web site. I am willing to talk about the pictures and the problems. We are starting to put together a section that has notes with them!
Hi. I admire your attempt at a site, but it would definitely be better done by someone with experience. While trying to expose poor stucco work, you make a stement about poor website design. In the process you come across there as someone who has more to say in criticism of oethers than to show proper methodology and technique. The heading gave me the impression of an example of a cheap mudslinger magazine from yellow journalism school. That made me wonder " who in the world is sponsoring this website anyway. i found a libnk who is paying... and clicked it to find out, "We do!" which explains exactly nothing to me. Then I found the more sedate looking button labeled "About us". Thinking, "Aha, I'll find out something more intelligent if I click this one..." I discovered how frustrating you can make a website for viewers. That link brought me to the exact same page.All the while, I had other browser windows going to picture links, but they only vaguely implied that something was amiss with what was shown. You definitely need to weed out all the crap, select a few good examples and add text to explain what it is you are trying to show folks. Potential customers are always more impressed with what you can do than with you saying what others are doing wrong.Allthe website says right now is, "Other stucco guys do lousy work, but I do ti right. Call Mr BS"If I were a potential customer, I would do anything but call Mr BS. I would want to call a pro and the sirte does nothing to convince me that I can find one by calling that number. He doesn't even seem to have a name, and frankly, I find that BS.
I'vve said all this with the assumption that you posted it here to ask for a critique of it. If I thought you were posting to solicit customers from this forum and its readers, I would point out that that sort of behaviour is prohibited as spam by the rules you agree to when you registered here.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Ok well said piffin. When I started the site it was to get the attention of the code enforcement and builders where I live. It is not a buisness it is to try to inform the public about the fleecing that is happening. As time goes on I will try to improve it. If you will check the links section you will find places for proper installation.
Hi Piffin : Don't you think you are being a little harsh ? The site does the job of sending out an alert to all buyers of Stucco cladding. I don't find it alarming, as such, but a little tongue in cheek.
And it makes one think to ask questions. I don't see an "us vs them", or a" we are better than everyone else" philosophy present. Only an offer to guide or explain.
True, the site is a little rough around the edges, and the BS thing can be misinterpreted, but so what ! If it causes one HO to look harder at what he is buying, then success is achieved.
Maybe the Stucco Manufacturers & Suppliers could provide some sponsorship to the site, and help with applicator and buyer education . Cheers.
I do not think I am being harsh, no.The site author makes some very pro-active statements that are not ambiguous. While I agree overall that much of the building industry ignores proper drainage details, some of the teachings on this website are also wrong, Imo. Many more are unclear. If the goal is to inform the public correctly, it fails. If criticism can help it succeed, I did well in saying so.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Is that really you in the picture Piffin ? You seem such a serious guy ! Cheers.
He has a sense of humor I ask for what I got. That is all good when I have money to sink into the website it will be different and there will be people who still do not like it. But stucco has been talked about and thought about more because of my bad website more in the last few days then it has in a while. Then my purpose was served also. So with that said thanks Bill and piffin. You see its not about me its about getting the trade fixed. And the codespeople ,the builders. And informing the public. That could be a baby picture he has grown out of it I hope!
PS. I have a sense of HUMOR!!
Edited 3/28/2005 6:31 am ET by stuccoman
Edited 3/28/2005 6:35 am ET by stuccoman
The KCStarless ran the article on bad stucco sunday.http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/11355706.htm
Bill it was not just about me or my website!
You just finished saying that you are not concerned about you or your website, then you complain tha tthey don't mention it. You are posing aas altruistic here.
Better put the mask back on.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Just a statement not a complaint!
Ah so, one of those toungue in cheek things with a smile?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
No I think a lot of people are being taken! And there needs to be some changes made!! How would you feel if your house pictures were on that site? Glad or sad? I asume you are a home owner!
Wow, Piffin, you're starting to sound like Bob.
SamT
Sorry, I'll go hang my head in shame.But after spending an hour at his site, my conclusion was that the overall idea of exposing flawed word was good, but that the site is not as altruistic as he portrays it too be, and I did disagree with some of the info he presented there. Since I am not a stucco guy, I won't go any further but to say, Carpe diem
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
So when you look at it all you see is someone picking on stucco! A lot of the issues are with window,housewrap,flashing,And roofing installations! The only one that goes thru after the stuccoman is the painter! Somebody needs to pointe out the things that are not right. A lot of them you can not see from the ground. Did you look at the section above the forum button? It says check this out before we get shut down! From the ground it looks ok. The inspectors around KC do not carry a ladder. What info do you not agree with? And it says at the top of the site good stucco gone bad! And if you dissagree post in my forum myself and the others will talk to you about it, you might be right. Set me or them straight!
You guys got me a-smiling here now. That is really me in that picture.
WreckedAngled doctored it up some to bring out a few of my better points - uyou know, the way they air brush the shots of models so they can be oogled without causing any eyestrain
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Ok try the leaks101 a primer that section has explainations with it. Let me know what you think. Thanks Carl
Hi Stuccoman --Very nice...you're getting there! I can tell you've put a lot of time and thought into this.I would move the slides with the examples of what quality craftsmanship looks like to the beginning of the presentation and beef those up with examples of what properly applied tyvek, tarpaper, lathe, etc. look like. Then segue into the the pix and descriptions of the faulty work. You sometimes have too many words in your slides with the examples of the shoddy work. It is sometimes better to use an arrow (or other graphic) to point out the area to focus on, and use only the words needed to convey the idea. Remember that the HOs might not be familiar with some of the terms you're using. You might need to include a glossary or something...I'll bet this will be very helpful to many HOs out there.
Thanks we are going to make some more changes. Like I said before I am at the mercy of the guy that put the site together. I am a stuccoman not a computer guru.
Yep.http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=55074.1
I see. He posted the site in the two different folders 3 minutes apart. I missed the other 'cause there were posts made to it.
Overland Park, Kansas. Learn something new every day.
And I missed the date on this one.I just saw yours and though that he had posted it today.
I agree Bill. Some of the pics shows obvious problems, but the problems are not the stucco, mopstly they are flashing or waterproofing problems. Many of the pics seem to be just a photo journal of a stucco job. Lacking any caption there's no way to tell what the supposed problem is.
Now that I think aboiut it, that site is probably the haven for HO's who post about their stucco contractor being a week late on a 5000 sf house, and oh by the way the wall was 1/16" out of plumb ... should we sue him?
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Edited 3/9/2005 2:42 pm ET by Ed Hilton
OK, here's a quick question for the Stucco Master - it fits with this topic as it will either be great or a disaster:
I've recently replaced some studs behind stucco in my garage that were bug and fungus rotted due to a bad roof leak of years of time. Of course I destroyed the tar paper while cutting out the nails ibetween the studs and the stucco. I had to recreate a bond between the stucco and the studs (2 of them), so I first coated the studs in copper naphthenate, then I used a polyurathane adhesive/sealer to completely cover the 2x section of the stud and bond it to the bare stucco. Basicly, the copper naphthenate and the polyurathane are now my vapor barrier.
Your thoughts? Is my garage soon to be posted on your website?
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Is your stucco painted or sealed?
The exterior surface is painted, the interior is bare. Hmmm, sealing the interior surface - hadn't thought of that.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Stuccoman,
Call me a dumb HO, but I lookaed at all the pics on your 1-many -1- many page and only saw 1 pic with a stucco problem.
Being a bit of a geek, I looked at the source code for some of your pages and found a cause of many of the complaints about your site; You used front page to create the code. FP is Billy Boy Gates revenge on all non MS-browsers. FP always makes pages that must be viewed full screen at the original (yours) resolution or higher. Get rid of all that absolute positioning and use tables with 'Width = nn%' instead. That will make the page scale to the screen on almost all browser/monitor combos.
The only advice I can give you is to learn HTML so you will know when FP is messin' with ya. Personally, I do all my codeing with a text editor. I reccommend "UltraEdit". for it's search and replace abilities. It can search for a string and replace, or modify it with another in an entire HDs' worth of files at once. I have personally edited 250 files at once.
The next advice I would give is reduce you pic sizes. Bytes is time, and you really wanna keep surfers wait time down. Check out the comparative quality of the two attachments, the big one is yours and the other has been reduced in file size by 1/2.
You've got the start of a really fine site. Keep tweaking on it a little at a time, and a year from now it will be the talk of the net. And, you'll be a coder par excellence.
SamT
Thanks Sam, there are 2 many pages of pics there is a second page for the website. If you get to it you will find a lot of pics that have to do with a good stucco job. Such as tyvek,flashing,windows,paperback lath and the are installed improperly. And most of the damage is done long before the stucco man gets to the job. Except for the paperback lath they were done by a so called stuccoman. I do not think HO are stupid. I think the builders and code enforcement are not doing their jobs. And taking advantage of the public. The builders by being GREEDY. The codes people just by not doing their job with the codes that are allready in place. I thought they were there to protect the public! I can promise you that I will keep trying to improve the web site. When it first got started I was using it to show people what I was talking about. I have a friend that plays with the net a lot more then I do. I am computer ignorant he is under paid kinda like free.
If you go to the we've changed block and click on it you will find the other pics. I can be reached at the # on the site toll free.
Thanks Carl
hi Stuccoman : I visited your site and am impressed with your diligence and honesty in presenting flawed work !
Is the situation in your location not covered off by Tradesman licensing or mandatory training and qualifications ? Your links are good too!
Where I am, masonry based stucco has all but vanished. EIFS has filled the void somewhat, but the variety of textures is lacking.
What, approximateley is the sq ft $ value of the system ?
And , it looks as though paint is your coloring system of choice, what does it cost, as well?
Cheers.
Thanks Eric, I am glad someone appreciates it there are some that do not. There is a union in missouri but not in kansas. But not in residental much in either. And some of the commercial work looks just as bad. It is not so bad the craftsmanship is gone but so is the code enforcement of the codes that were allready in place. The traditional stucco here has all but vanished most are doing a one coat system. And they are cheating it out. In the last year I have heard of prices as low as 2.25 per sq ft .A lot of the stucco nearest I can figure is going for 3.50 to4.00 a sq ft for one coat. I think for a 3/4 or 7/8 traditional job it should be around 8.50 a sq ft. And most of the stucco is painted. But not with an elastomeric just a thin coat of what ever. There was a painter talking in the guest book last week if you post in the forum he will talk to you about what the cost of paint is. It is not just about stucco the housewraps/windows/roofers/carpenters/codes officials/BUILDERS. Let alone the stucco they just do not seem to care about QUALITY anymore. All they seem to care about is the dollar they can make today not even next year! And the homeowner/insurance companys, and everybody will end up paying for it in the long run!
I hear you. Life is a fast lane, drive-in world. Get the money and run.
Seriously, if everyone passes the buck, we all get to pay. Eifs had lots of problems in Vancouver with water infiltration in condos. Cost Millions.
I don't know why people can't understand that water takes the path of least resistance, and that water resistance is the key to building longevity and performance. I don't even think the instructor's themselves understand.
I am interested in knowing more about conventional stucco, as I have a small concrete and ICF contracting business. we are pretty decent floor finishers also.
Several years ago, I obtained an Essick Plaster pump, and since then have always wondered if, we could actually learn the trade. Never used the pump yet though.
Recommendations ?
Hey Eric, Go to the links section at badstucco.Then go to the minnesota lath and plaster link. Then to the stucco tab at the top of the page. Then to the residental stucco link. There you will find a wealth of info on installation. It is to bad we live in such a desposiable world. But it seems that GREED will always be the down fall. The phone # on the site is toll free. One of the things most people do not under stand is the houses are built so tight that when the HVAC kicks on if there is a pin hole anywhere it is like a vacum. Then it is like a water fall.
Stuccoman,
Thanks for all of the pics and advice. My stucco guy is coming tomorrow morning. I have to admit, I'm scared to death. I have no experience with stucco. I just know I have 1000 sq ft. He's using tar paper, wire lath and two coats. My biggest question. I worked on a 100 + year old stucco over wood lath house. Whyu didn't they use any control joints back then?
Because somebody thought they had a better idea! Everything that is new is not better. The key I think is letting the basecoat sit and cure out,shrink,crack and keep it as wet as possible! let alone good moisture barrier. Two layers! And back then they used real WOOD! Not so much glue. And the rag felt had more tar in it!
Thanks stuccoman,
DId I mention the stucco on the 100+year house has really coarse aggregate. Almost like pebbles, sort of looks like popcorn. Horse hair in there, really weird stuff. The stucco, keyed into wood lath is nailed on 5/4 furring 16" oc. The total thickness from sheathing to finish stucco is two"+ Have you ever seen this before? I know that no one can create it today. Why not? And how do you think they applied it? Thanks again-Pete
Hey pete I think anything is possible! To get it that thick would be like iceing a cake! Not a problem! It would be better to have a ledge like a brick ledge on the foundation. And 3/4 inch plywood for backing. Or just go to the studs like they do on the west coast. No OSB! What part of the country are you in? I can be reached at the toll free # on the badstucco website!