I have a 1905 house with unpainted woodwork and have added a few doors and am trying to come up with a way to achieve the same color in the new fir as the old fir has acquired over the years. I have tried several stains and it doesn’t seem possible to match the color of the older fir despite many experiments.
If I am not being sufficiently clear, I am talking about the difference in color on the outside of an old roughsawn fir joist and its interior if you cut or drill into it. Can anyone tell me what causes this color change and can I induce it more quickly with the proper technique?
I have noticed that freshly milled redwood used as concrete forms turns black almost immediately when it comes in contact with the concrete. I assume this is the same process that occurs naturally over time from exposure to the environment.
I would rather not brush Portland cement on my doors so any other ideas are greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Karll
Edited 9/7/2002 3:13:36 AM ET by karl
Replies
it is the alkali (base) content of the schment that "ages" the wood.
I have read of woodworker types using oven cleaner or diluted Lye on Cherry to achieve an aged look.
Maybe this would work on fir????
Or maybe just an amber shellac would give you what you want?
T
Do not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
Edited 9/7/2002 6:54:53 AM ET by Mr T
Karl,
I’m pretty sure that what it is you’re referring to about the color on that fir is the development of what is known as “patina”. This is valuable stuff on antique furniture and woodwork and an antique buff would have your head if you removed from a piece of furniture by sanding it off in an attempt to make the piece look better. Your piece would also only be worth a fraction of its prior value if you were to do this.
Any hoot, patina develops on wood because of exposure to the air and UV rays. Since finish on wood provides a barrier to the air and most wood lives inside where the sun isn’t shining directly on it, the development of this patina on furniture and woodwork usually takes many years. However, and consequently, there are ways to accelerate the creation of the patina and it’s most successful prior to the application of finish.
If you take the unfinished wood and simply place it out where the sun can shine upon it, the patina develops quite rapidly, all things being relative. However, this requires that you tend to the boards as the exposure to the sun will have a drying effect on the wood and will likely cause it to cup some if you don’t turn it over so that both sides receive equal amounts of exposure. Don’t do this with the wood lying on the ground or it’ll absorb moisture and then you’ll surely have more rapid development of cupping, as one side will be drying out while the other is getting moister. You’ll be successful if you rotate it every hour or two, if the sun is bright and the temps high. Less intense conditions would require less frequent turning.
Another way to accomplish the natural development of the patina color (meaning without the use of stain or other colorants) would be to use an artificial sun. Yep, take that thing to the tanning bed with you. Just kidding. What works tho (and I’ve used this approach numerous times) when the weather isn’t cooperative to your project, is to use the old tanning bulbs in a clamp lamp and arrange it/them about 8”- 24” from the wood and let the tanning begin. The closer you are, the faster the tanning takes place, but the smaller the area you cover at a crack and so more re-positioning is necessary. It won’t be nearly as fast as the sun unless you’re within about 12” of the surface. This procedure works great if you ever find yourself in the position of having to make spot repairs to an antique or older piece of wood where the development of patina is obvious, and then recreate the patina so no one knows you paid a visit. You can create masks with cardboard or heavy paper that only allows the area in need to receive the treatment.
Time for an edit here………………..Likely some if not a significant portion of the color you’re looking at may be from the aging of the finish on those old doors. Shellac and oil- based varnish shift color as they age. Therefore, you may or may not be totally successful with the tanning job. If you aren’t, then you’re faced with adding color to get there. This can be accomplished with a custom mixed stain or with the use of toning and shading lacquers. You might also use a specific variety of shellac to get the additional color needed as they come in different colors. Google a search and it’ll help you find these shellacs if you think you might want to try that.
I’d caution you about using stain to match things better if the tanning doesn’t get the job done, because if you were to stain this wood to achieve the color and then decide some day to strip the old doors or woodwork…………….. you’d be faced with staining them also to replace the color that left with the old finish.
If the tanning doesn’t get the job done, and you’ve got a good custom furniture shop in your area, you might go pay a visit and see if the folks are familiar with those shading and toning lacquers. You’d apply a coat of clear finish first and then the colored coat(s) followed by another clear coat to protect the color layers.
Any of this make sense? Hope so.
Edited 9/7/2002 10:10:01 AM ET by GOLDHILLER
Watco Natural oil will take fir from almost white to honey orange, then allow the fir to age and color naturally. It's not a 100 year patina, but it's a start, maybe 5 years worth. If you really want to get dark quick, I guess you could mix other colors into the Natural, but be careful; test on several boards. I've found that a little darkener goes a long way.
The nice thing about Watco, or other penetrating oils, is that you can freshen them up simply by wiping on another coat(s) through the years if the surface gets too dry. I love the stuff.
There's an article by Jeff Jewitt in FWW #148, April 2001, you might find helpful - "How To Match a Finish". Good stuff.
Brinkmann for president in '04
Jim,
I’ve been using Watco since the early 70’s and you’re suggestion is a valid one. It’s a great finish for various pieces of furniture, but I’m not sure that I’d recommend it as a stand-alone finish on a door or woodwork, however.
Yes, its an easy finish to apply and repair, but doesn’t offer the durability that I’d require on a door and woodwork as it doesn’t respond all that well to cleaning with detergents and water (all those finger marks and such, don’t ya know).
A more durable finish is achieved by blending Watco with gloss oil-based poly and following the same application procedures; apply, allow a few minutes for absorption and then remove all the excess…………..repeat. After a minimum of three days cure, apply paste wax (of appropriate color) with #0000 steel wool. The wax sheen will diminish over the next six weeks as the oil finish out-gasses during its cure and will need to be repeated to renew the original sheen. The blend I like is 60% Watco to 40% gloss oil-based poly.
Watco is frequently used even when not for the final surface finish as an application of it will intensify the appearance of grain and create pleasing color and highlights prior to the addition of other coatings. One needs to be a bit careful tho, as not all finishes are compatible on top of it.
I guess I’d suggest the use of an oil-based satin poly finish over the Watco on this gentlemen’s project just for the durability factor, if he should try to use the Watco as a colorant.
I've never tried mixing Watco with poly, but poly over Watco is about as good as it gets. The colors the oil brings out are far more beautiful than what you get with a stain. Yup, I'm with you there, Goldhiller, satin poly over Watco natural is tough to beat. Kind of expensive, but beautiful.
Brinkmann for president in '04
Hi Karl,
I can chime in w/ a bit here as I sanded & refinished the fir T&G floor in my kitchen 4 years ago.
I was not 'up' on the newest urethane finishes, particularly the water-based and proceeded to trust the Varathane folks when they said "Crystal Clear" on the can.
Well, the floor immediately darkened. But what surprised me the most was a year or more later, when I moved a 4' X 5' piece of carpet placed by the back door for my two messy dogs when they come in from outside.
Under the carpet, the floors was half as dark as the rest of it! It made me realize that I have a resanding & re-finishing job in my future since I really do want a 'clear' finish that can only be obtained via water-based finish
What you can hopefully take from my disaster, is that the idea of 'quick' aging is something you could do. Now, my kitchen is not real well lit w/ natural light. No windows, a sliding door at one end going out to the covered back porch.
What we had done shortly after the floor was refinished, though, is replacement of the florescent tubes ( 2- 4' ers) with 'full-spectrum' bulbs. These lights are on for hours & hours every day. I would say, since I frequently work late into the night, for an average 16 hours a day.
I can't help but think that the 'full-spectrum' bulbs have more UV since they are designed for plant growth.
Also, I can chime in about the older finishes be much, much different than we have now & most likely contribute to the 'patina'. Remember, the fir floor of mine darkened significantly even finished.
As I look at the floor, now, I also see that there is a large variation in the fir's natural coloring, even in the all vertical grain pieces. You may not be able to pick & choose doors, but I would think that first some trials and then some careful selection of your trim might be the best idea.
Most of the natural finish trim I have done through-out the years has been Oak, but I have always been careful about 'matching' the trim as much as I could. Obviously, it was much more important in a high-end job that a slop-box, tract home.
Good luck, I think the best advice is to play around with finishes, procedures and every thing else until you KNOW what the fir will do after you finish.
GeoD
Thanks a bunch for all the input. Even though light is clearly a huge component I am curious what causes rafters, floor joists, etc to darken up over time. They have minimal exposure to light so I am speculating there may be a chemical process taking place as well.
I will experiment with all the ideas offered!
thanks again, karl
The other major component of the development of patina is, as stated in my original post, .........air. It's a matter of oxidation.
While I'm sittin' here......again.,.......and on this topic, I'll share a bit of stuff about the coloring and antiquing of reproduction furniture......I mean the real stuff,not the stuff you find at the furniture store or in a catalog...............say a reproduction chair to replace a Louis IVth chair that will be mixed with a set of the real thing or a complete set that would be used for ceremonial dinners and the guests are supposed to beleive that they're setting on the originals (which are safely tucked away in a temp/humidity vault).
George Frank for one, as well as others, have revealed various techniques used for such accomplishments. They include all manner of approaches including burying the stock to create these pieces in mounds of horse manure for months on end. It works. Leaves that wood looking centuries old. Pieces produced via these means have readily fooled some of the world's leading authorities even upon close examination.
Then there's the tea water approach............
But then you're not wanting to make your lumber look this old, you just want it to age "a bit".
I'm sure this has something to do with the age of the tree when it was harvested for lumber, no?no turn left unstoned
I knoweth not.