How to find the gumption to cut that hole in the roof?
I have read about it here many times, and in the magazine. I have looked at diagrams, and have a basic idea of how it works. but,
How to actually find the courage to cut a hole in your roof for a (much needed) bathroom exhaust fan…….. (shakin’ my head)
I am worried that I’ll overlook something and there will be a leak, which will lead to this problem which will lead to that problem, and the next thing you know……… yadda yadda yadda.
Even the though of running the exhaust vent through the wall (i have read here that is can work,but ain’t the best ) gives me pause.
Lookin’ forward to hearing from you!
Doug
Northeast Indiana
Replies
Like the Nike ad says - just do it!
What do you think you missed?
Hmmmm ..... northern Indiana - might be a little dicey today with snow all over the roof maybe could procrastinate a little longer. You could hedge today and just go up in the attic and mark your center location on the underside of the roof deck - then you can feel like you did something.
What kind of roof? Asphalt shingle, cedar, metal? Asphalt is easy. If you can access the bottom of the sheating run a screw or nail upwards thru the roof centered on where you want the vent to be. Go on top and and remove the shingles around the nail. Cut the proper size hole and and install the roof vent and re-install the shingles around it. Obviously, you'll need to cut them. Or, you could do it like a lot a clowns around here: Cut the hole without removing the roofing, install the vent on top and smear a bunch of mammy all over the whole thing. Good luck.
Scissors cut paper. Rock breaks scissors. Paper wraps rock.
Yu cane dew ate!
Just wait on the interior finish work till you verify no leaks. lol
-zen
We often run the duct work to the soffit or a gable wall. I don't like any extra holes in a roof, unless there is no other way.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Don`t look to gain any gumption from my advice. I recomend against it unless there is absolutely no alternative. Sidewall is always a better choice....even if it means going with a more expensive model that can be mounted elsewhere and ducted through the wall.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
There was an excellent article by Mike Guertin on just this topic in FHB several months ago. Check it out and you should feel much more confident.
What's the slope of your roof? Roofing material?
While it's nice if you can go through a soffit or gable end, a roof vent is usually no big deal. Almost every house has some kind of vent perforating the roof.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
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Hey, everyone!! Thanks for the advice so far!!!<!---->
Let me go through these posts and see what wisdom is there:<!---->
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JTC1 <!---->
….maybe could procrastinate a little longer
Excellent advice!!!! I can even tell my wife that this advice came from the Breaktime Board – she won’t argue with me for once!hahhaa<!---->
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You could hedge today and just go up in the attic and mark your center location on the underside of the roof deck - then you can feel like you did something.<!---->
Another great piece of advice!!!! I like how your mind works, JTC1!!!<!---->
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greencu <!---->
What kind of roof? Asphalt shingle, cedar, metal? Asphalt is easy. <!---->
You’re right, I forgot to say. Sorry. Asphalt.<!---->
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If you can access the bottom of the sheating run a screw or nail upwards thru the roof centered on where you want the vent to be. Go on top and and remove the shingles around the nail. Cut the proper size hole and and install the roof vent and re-install the shingles around it. Obviously, you'll need to cut them. Or, you could do it like a lot a clowns around here: Cut the hole without removing the roofing, install the vent on top and smear a bunch of mammy all over the whole thing. Good luck. <!---->
Big grin!! I’ll indeed remember the part about cutting the shingles!!!!! Hahahahaha<!---->
Reminds me, too. Speaking of clowns – the folks who owned this place last did not have any sheathing put down. When you walk into the attic, you see shingles. Oh, and the nails poking down, too. <!---->
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zendo <!---->
Yu cane dew ate!<!---->
Just wait on the interior finish work till you verify no leaks. Lol <!---->
Hahaaha!! Thanks for the virtual slap on the back!!! I do like the idea of waiting on the interior finish work, though. Tanks!<!---->
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Hammer <!---->
We often run the duct work to the soffit or a gable wall. I don't like any extra holes in a roof, unless there is no other way. <!---->
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match<!---->
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Hmmm. Seems I recal reading (perhaps years before) folks not liking to bend the duct work. I’ll go back and read on that again. I am more comfortable with a hole in the wall (didn’t think about soffit!), too, but have this memory of other folks claiming against it. Guess it’s time to brave the “search” function here!.<!---->
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Hammer <!---->
Don`t look to gain any gumption from my advice. I recomend against it unless there is absolutely no alternative. Sidewall is always a better choice....even if it means going with a more expensive model that can be mounted elsewhere and ducted through the wall.<!---->
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And, didn’t know that a “sideways” fan was more expensive. But, if all agree it is a better way to go, I’ll pay the extra bucks. I am pretty freaked about a hole in the roof. (go ahead and laugh at me, I know!! I probably deserve it!! )<!---->
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MojoMan There was an excellent article by Mike Guertin on just this topic in FHB several months ago. Check it out and you should feel much more confident.<!---->
Will include that in my search parameters! Thanks!<!---->
What's the slope of your roof? Roofing material? <!---->
Slope – uh, typical farmhouse steep. (boy don’t I feel goofy not knowing. Is there a reasonable way for a reasonable boy like me to figure this out?)<!---->
Roofing material -- asphalt<!---->
While it's nice if you can go through a soffit or gable end, a roof vent is usually no big deal. Almost every house has some kind of vent perforating the roof.<!---->
Yes, I’ve heard many a wise man say the same thing about holes and roofs. But… I just havent’ done it before. And, that roof’s pretty darned high!!! LOL (two story). <!---->
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So, what is everyone’s take on side vent vs. through the roof venting of a bathroom fan??? I’ll be doing some “searches” and will check back here, too, with interest!<!---->
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Doug<!---->
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First....as to the lack of sheathing.....weren`t knuckleheads who installed current roof. Quite typical. Your original roof was most likely wood shingles, which are applied atop batton strips that run paralell to rafters. Unless the entire roof was torn off when new roofing was installed, the new roof was simple applied atop the existing.
As to "sideways fans" costing more....no....a remotely installed exhaust fan. As in one which is mounted somewhere other than the bathroom ceiling. I have one installed in my third floor attic which picks up both the master bath on the second floor and the powder room on the first. If you have an area above the room to be vented which allows you to access a sidewall, you mount the unit there, and run the ductwork back to the bathroom.J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
The issue of going through your roof, is the condition of existing roofing. Installing a pipe through a roof is not a big deal if you have some experience. You will have to peel up some of the existing shingles to make the "pipe boot" water tight. This can lead to disaster in some cases, shingles start breaking apart and as you try to fix those, others follow suit. I second the advice on a remote unit, if you can get access to the attic and the vent location. They are much more powerful than a fan light combo and much quieter. Most have the capacity to vent multiple locations. In addition to my baths, I ran a vent to my kitchen, in an unseen location away from the stove. Even my Daughters can't steam up the bathroom if it is on.We build quite a few houses and venting through the soffit is quite common where applicable and permissible. Just don't do it directly over a window. I prefer to use solid aluminum dryer duct work with a short piece of flexible attached to the blower. This will eliminate vibration making noise or shaking the attachment loose. Going straight up or level across can lead to condensation collecting in the duct or dripping back to the blower. If you decide to go through the roof, put a cap on the stack so rain and snow don't enter.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Hammer,I could have posted the same message that Hector did... I'm in the same boat as him, trying to get the gumption to cut that hole in the roof. I figure I can wait until spring since it's been venting in the attic for 20 years I really don't see how a few more months are going to matter.I have two baths with fans, but would be much happier with only one hole, so it sounds like I should go the remote route as you have. The one thing that I don't understand is how do you control the unit? When it's on is it on for all vents attached to it or is there a way to control each room? A damper of some kind? Do you use a 3-way switch to power the unit?Do you have a unit that you would recommend?Thanks-Chad
Where the heck you been brotha? Good to see ya around.
The remote unit picks up and vents all rooms whenever the unit is turned on, which is why its important to spec the proper sized unit. I`m sure you could rig individual dampers for each room, but that would require they were switched and powered seperately. This would be drastic overkill though as the remote units are designed to vent all at once.
I`ll admit to having poked vents up through roofs many times myself (not the 500 Mike has done) without any problems. I just view it differently than Mike. I consider holes in roofs a last resort...when all else fails. Asthetics come into play as much as efficiency IMO.
Roofs have enough protrusions on todays homes.....I prefer not to add to them.J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
and i prefer not to have those ugly vents sticking out of my sidewall
not to mention.. i can install a roof vent in half the time it takes to install a sidewall vent
sounds like tomatoes / potatoes Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
zactly.J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
here's one of our roof jacks , painted green to match the roofing...
and with a 4" adjustable elbow glued in with a foam gun
View Image
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 1/25/2005 11:19 pm ET by Mike Smith
Perfect... a picture is worth a 1,000 words. Thanks for posting that. Don't think I would have ever thought of using foam to attach the elbow... sure is a great idea.
Thanks again for the feedback/help, I really respect your work and enjoy reading your posts, which are always very informative. The pictures really help.
I'm sure that Hector will get around to install his before I do, but I will update this when I do the install and let you know how many leaks I have then followed up with a picture of a roof-jack with a big mound of tar around it.
-Chad
Jay, thanks for the response. I think you have me confused with the other CAG, since I mostly just lurk and try to absorb all the knowledge that you guys share. I had changed my Nickname to Chad, but looks like it started using my member name again. I will have to try and change it back.
I will post an update with which route I go. I really like the sounds of the remote unit, but I will have to check the cost out first.
-Chad
I guess I did get ya confused....wondered what happened to the mascott.
Good to see you posting anyhow. Often times "lurkers" input is even more valuable than that of the regulars. Your questions here have illicited more details and considerations than this thread might have otherwise.
Hope to see you round more often.
Best of luck with your project!J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
As Jaybird said, you would need dampers to isolate the various rooms. That roof jack that Mike is showing would be under three feet of snow up here right now. That's why we use the vented soffit, wall outlet or a tall stack like a plumbing stack. There are other types of vent outlets, you don't have to use a big ugly box. No offense, Mike. You need a well ventilated attic to use a soffit vent, continuous soffit vents as well as continuous ridge vent. You don't want to accidentally pump your attic full of moisture. I have also used a Jennaire hood on a gable wall, looks like a large dryer vent. Depending on the units size, you need an outlet that won't restrict the flow.I think mine is a Broan MP 140 in line remote ventilator.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Funny... I didn't think much about the snow and you would think I would have with as much snow as we recently got. I see a lot of new construction around here using 3 to 4 roof jacks painted to match. I don't think I would have noticed them if I wasn't looking for them.so I guess the whole snow issue is something to keep in mind, however it does seem like it would only take a matter of minutes for the snow around the vent to melt once you turned the blower on, but I guess that could just make things worse?Thanks Hammer.-Chad
hector... if you have a "roof jack" for your 4" vent you're good to go..
Broan makes the ones we use... i'm guessing i've probably installed 500 of them over the years...
NEVER had one that leaked..
the flashing is built in.. you cut about a 5" round hole so you can bring the vent pipe thru the roofing.. i like to attach a 4" adjustable aluminum elbow ( galvanized if you are using galvanized pipe ) to the roof jack itself... you can foam it in with a can of spray foam.. then install the jack and elbow as a unit...
3/4 of the flashing flange goes under the shingles... 1/4 goes on top of the bottom shingles.. you can use ice & water membrane to extend the flashing if you're anal (like me ).. all of the nails are hidden by the roofing
roof jacks perform better than sidewall & soffit jacks ... and they don't interfere with insulation.. sidewall vents are ok... but soffit vents just suck bigtime...
given the choice.. i always choose a roof jack Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,
Since I'm in need of doing the same thing your feedback was very helpful. The Broan roof jack is the one I have been looking at installing too:
View Image
Our house was re-shingled in 2000 and I don't think they did a tear-off, so would I have to go under both layer of shingles or would It be okay to just go under the top layer? I have a bundle of extra shingles they saved, so this gives me a little extra gumption that I need.
I like your use of ice & water membrane.
Still have not decided if I will go out the roof our out the gable wall that is within 3 feet of where the fans would be. I would really like to be able to have two fans vent out one opening.
As always Mike, your feedback is very helpful. I'm sure the odds of my 1 vent leaking vs. your 500 is going to be much higher.
cag... i'd buy two jacks..
after you see how easy they go in.. you can weigh the ease of installation vs. the complications of tying two bath fans into one vent..
also.. if we're feeling the influence of our artistic side, we'll paint the jacks to compliment the roof shingles... even though tey're already painted..
'sides .. we do a LOT of work within the salt spray zone..
yesterday.. where we had mostly 18" of snow on the ground, our current job is almost bare grass.... since it was a nor'easter... the grass is bare but the windows are covered with salt
so .. the extra coat of paint on the roof jacks gives them a little edge
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 1/25/2005 8:25 am ET by Mike Smith
Mike, Thanks for taking the time to respond.
I will take your advise in using two jacks unless I go the route of using the remote unit which I like the sounds of, but will have to compare prices since I don't plan on being in our current house more than a few years.
-Chad
Just shows how people think.I took the roof jack for granted. Wouldn't even have occured to me to do it without one.
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
Hector: Have you ever cut a hole through a roof before? Probably not. Word of warning: If you have a round piece of vertical duct work you want to run through the roof, and the roof has a slope - the hole you cut will not be round!!!!! It will be an ellipse, long axis running up & down slope. The steeper the roof slope, the longer this axis. This is at least a "Fail safe" situation. Cut a circle the diameter of the duct & you will immediately see that the hole isn't "Long enough" up & down the slope. Center of the ellipse will be where the center of the circle would be, however. Just don't want you to be surprised.
Unless, of course, the duct turns perpendicular to the roof before penetrating it. Then it becomes a circle.
Don
On a roof of reasonable pitch (more than 3 in 12, and less than 12/12) and with reasonably normal shingles and sheathing, there's really nothing to worry about. (Well, hardly anything. It's good if the area isn't too close to a valley and isn't somehow placed where exceedingly strong winds will be focused on it. It's also good if you don't fall off the roof.)
The thing to remember is that water runs downhill. So you take advantage of that. You DON'T try to just use roofing cement to seal things.
To take advantage of the downhill, the flange of the vent goes OVER the shingles below it on the slope, and UNDER the shingles above it on the slope. In some cases this may mean that you need to remove one or two shingles temporarily to get things installed (a "shingle thief" is handy for this), but on a reasoanbly warm, sunny day, with reasonably new shingles, you can just flex up the upper ones to work under them.
Do use roofing cement (sparingly) as a little extra "insurance", to cover exposed nails, and to tack down the shingles you lifted. But you should have no need to "slop" it on everywhere.
But the A-number-one rule in this sort of thing (and, for that matter, in any project involving flashing) is to remember that water runs downhill.
If the roof is multiple layers, that does complicate things a little, mostly because you have more to cut through, and also because, if there are wood shingles under there, they can disintegrate and make a mess of things when you try to cut through them.But if it's just, say, two layers of asphalt, then it shouldn't be a problem (just a minor PITA). Ignore the covered layer, and just work the flashing under the edges of the top layer as if it were the only layer there.
I am in the same boat: house built in 1980 and both upstairs baths "vent" into the attic.
I rather like the idea of the remote mounted units (mostly cuz I hate the noise) but I wonder if running one large unit capable of venting 2 or more baths simultaneously might introduce a couple of new issues:
1) Wouldn't a ventilator drawing 300 or 400 CFM possibly introduce a back draft issue with fuel fired heating equipment? Especially when, say, a range hood is in operation at the same time.
2) Heat/cooling losses from venting a bath that's not in use.
Seems a better - if more costly, approach would be to run smaller, single units which would be easier to size for the intended room.
Then again, perhaps I'm giving this too much thought.
Dan
Re #1, your house should be equipped with some sort of makeup air system.
While we're on the subject. My roof is corrugated sheet and steep. I need to exhaust a 2" vent through it. I don't have a problem cutting the hole, but what about flashing a hole in corrugated. I can't seem to figure that one out. It seems like I would have to fabricate something or go heavy with roof cement. I haven't seen a boot or jack that would work
Any thoughts,
Ken
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=53215.1I stumped Theodora at trivia. -Jan.2005
Wowza!
A feller steps away from his computer for a day or two and look at what happens! I am mighty grateful for all the inquiries and all the folks stopping by and stepping in! I feel like I got a real education, and I know other do, too! Another reason to like these boards so much!
There are some real top-notch experts here, and I tip my hat to you all!
I have two layers of asphalt shingles, and feel much better prepared to face this challenge. Like one person said, there is a much better chance of my one install leaking than someone else's 500 installs. LOL
I'll re-read this thread a couple of times and come back with any more questions (which I have a lot of now!)
Thanks
Doug
Northeastern Indiana