hey hey
Anyone got any ideas on how I can fire a guy that has been making racist statements about my crew. I am not the boss but I do hire all the guys that come to our shop. In the past the ones that could not last just up and quit or did not come back from lunch or went home for a while (mexico). But this guy will not quit or take a hint that the guys are ready to kick his a$$.
The guy in question is a friend of a friend of a friends cousin or something like that. He needed a job after he got out of county and I said sure why not. I was at that point in my life one time and one person helped me and it turned my life around so I wanted to do the same. I asked if he had a car and he said no so I picked him up and gave him a set of old pouches with some tools. When we pulled up to the job I introduced him to the crew and thats when it all began.
He looked at the guys and said ” I aint workin with a bunch of wetbacks”. I’ve been called all those names before and it does’nt bother me but my guys are not used to that and I pulled him to the side and explained to him that the only reason he is here is that I felt sorry for him and to shut his mouth and work. After that he worked pretty good for a couple of days and started up again at lunch. My #2 guy Pablo seen he did not have anything for lunch and offered him some of his and instead of just saying no thank you he goes off in a rant of how great america would be if there was no “beaners” in this country.
A little bit about my crew. THEY ARE ALL HERE LEGALLY. With green cards and ss#’s. They pay their taxes and work all the hours they can to take care of their families.
So again we have a talk and I tell him one more time and he’s fired. Then he started with me saying” if you fire me I will call I N S”. I told they are all legal and he comes back with but it will shut your jobs down till it gets sorted out. So I call the boss and tell him whats going on and he tells me to do whatever I need to do. He says “your out in the field so you take care of the field problems, if not than give back your bonus check and I will run the field and the office”. He was not saying that to be mean but we have had talks before that I am to easy on my crew but thats the reason these guys want to work with me.
So to stop my venting my question is how can I fire this piece of poop and not have to worry about other problems?
I ask because this forum is one of the best for getting answers to questions so I know someone out there has to have an answer.
First off thnaks to everyone for the advice. Second , I called the boss for a check and called all my guys and told them to come in a half hour late and I will pay them for it so I can get rid of this piece of trash. I figured if he takes a swing at me I will be the one who goes to lock up and not my guys. I told all my guys to make shure 200% that all their papers are in line and I plan on calling I N S tommorrow to give them a heads up on this situation. The boss said that he will pull their paperwork to make shure his azz is covered and we should be good.
I also apologized to my guys for bringing this piece of trash on the job and they were o k with it. I thought about giving him the sh!t detail like scrapping all the rock but I dont want him there on my job. I also called my friend and told him to tell his friend of a friend to never send another guy my way again. I still will try to help people because I am foolish or to trusting but it made me feel good at first (till he said something stupid). Like I said before I might be in prison or dead but there was someone out there that gave me a chance, took a gamble on me and I did everything I could to never go back to that life style. Maybe it was wishfull thinking that I could change someone that did not want to be changed. Live and learn I guess.
Again thanks to all who took the time to read my post and offer advice.
Edited 1/22/2007 10:16 pm ET by dirtysanchez
Replies
Are you still driving him to work? If so, why not just be "unable to pick him up". If he misses work a day or two, that's cause to fire him, isn't it?
dirty.. just like wood said..
how does he get to work ?
you still picking him up ?
well , stop...
if he still comes to work, take him aside and tell him you won't tolerate him spreading dissension in the ranks... he's creating morale problems
if (when ) he lips off, call the boss and have him cut a severance check...
then tell him to go pick up his check
oh.. and don't forget... no good deed goes unpunished.... or...
the road to hell is paved with good intentions.... or..
ah, forget it... you tried to help the dummyMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
With all due respect, I think you're asking the wrong people to help you with this matter. Racism in the workplace is a serious offense that is subject to both civil and criminal penalties. Before terminating that employee, I would direct the concern to an offical with the local Department of Labor and then proceed accordingly. Just sending the problem down the road is not the answer, in my humble opinion.
My two-cents worth,
MichaelNew knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
Fire the guy. Make sure you have I-9's for all of the employees. My understanding is that the INS checks to make sure your paperwork is in order, since that is what is legally required of the employing company.
Rebeccah
No question that he's gone...
How about a preemptive call to INS with your problem?
First of all I think it's cool to give people help when they need it. Unfortunately, it seems this guy didn't deserve help. Secondly, you should hear what others have to say (depending on the size of your employer, maybe a lawyer) before acting.
My opinion is that if your crew is legit, fire him. He is "at will" and can be fired for any reason except age, sex, race and perhaps sexual orientation. Maybe he will call INS but since he just got out of County I doubt he would want to deal with govt. officials. Perhaps you could contact INS and warn them of the potential illegitimate complaint, or at least tell him you (EDIT) will.
I will be interested in what others have to say about the issue, TWG
(EDIT) ps. I like the crap detail and no pick-up suggestions.
Edited 1/22/2007 5:09 pm ET by TWG
Put him on crap detail, every job nobody wants to do he gets it.
Let him keep spouting off at the mouth, then let your guys "fix" his attitude. He has been warned twice.
Eventually he will quit. Maybe not soon enough.
Your tolerance of him up to this point is well..... I wouldn't..
Your other employees are entitled to a harrasment free work environment. You need to think of that and respect them.
Fire this jerk immediatly, letting him know in no uncertain terms why. I'd put it in writing, hand him the letter and keep a copy for youself.
I'd also let the others know why you fired him. THEY wil respect you for that and be even more loyal to you.
You then have no worry about him filing any legal action.
You'll be covered. And you'll be doing what's right.
goo luck.
You could let your guys have a "conference" with him when you're gone for a short spell.
Just for the fun of it give him and the rest of the crew a UA . ;-) My guess he wil quit before that happens.
I have and still do try to help those who are trying to change their lives around.. getting burned on occaision goes with that territory, but being held hostage is not part of the deal.
You are in your rights to dismiss any one for the trouble he is causing. Take the stand, fire him, let your company deal with the INS if needed. The rest of the employees deserve the right to work without harrassment.
If you back down now you will lose the respect of your good people and never regain control and regain that respect again.
I'd call this yahoo's bluff in a New York second Sanchez. Give him his walking papers and a kick in the azz on the way out. Do it on the site and let the punk walk home. I'm betting he can't even spell INS, never mind track them down and place a phone call. Let him know you're doing him a favor as the alternative was to let his co-workers deal with him. If you don't have the stones to can him outright, just run his ignorant azz into the ground with grunt labor until he walks on his own.
The thing with helping guys is....... they gotta actually want to be helped. I'm a recovering drug addict (8 years sober) and when I first started my business I used to try to help other guys get back on their feet by giving them work. Over all, it was an exercise in futility. One day I came to my senses and realized that I'd be much better off running my business like a business instead of a charity.
when I first started my business I used to try to help other guys get back on their feet by giving them work. Over all, it was an exercise in futility. One day I came to my senses and realized that I'd be much better off running my business like a business instead of a charity.
View Image
Man... I could write a book... I've had more kids that weren't mine and most were older than me.... than i care to count... I've paid bail, posted bonds, paid rent, impound fees, lawyer bills,put guys thru rehab.. ... at one point i thought i could save someone, what i found was... people were where they were because of their own actions and lifestyles... if they were come'n to me for help it pretty much ment they had already burned every bridge to every person who at some point might have cared.... took a long time to learn this... I at one pont in my life saw something good in everyone... not only saw it but looked for it... the old "there but for the grace of god goes I" deal... all this was fine before i had real kids (not the kind you find on the street )... since i stopped "help'n" the rate at which my stuff has been stolen has gone way down... i don't have guys at my door need'n gas money (drug) my phone doesn't ring at 3am... and my quality of life is better.... I not only gave these guys jobs i tried to show by example and by talking how they too could have something just a little bit better... never worked... I know some are dead now... some are in jail, some are doing what people do that need drugs and have no money... I know none of em left mad at me... i know they consider me a friend... but they also know not to call me... and to stay away from anything i have... if i see em on the street they know i'm good for $10 ... but i'm out of the save'n folks business I failed at it... and i don't want back in...
p
as for fire'n the guy..... Man don't explain crap... except... sorry we don't need you any more... thanks for help'n out when we needed you... Period...
never ever explain in a situation like that... you don't owe it to him and he won't accept it as truth anyway...
p
View Image Options
View ImageReply
Thank you for writing that. Sounds sorta like my story, too.I have a learning disability, apparently, but I'm gettiong over it. <G>You probably should write that book, but if not, please at least share a few more thoughts.I don't care to go into my own story, but suffice it to say the biker trailer trash living behing Brownbagg with the pit bulls are a step or three above what I used to live and act like. I could not have afforded their trailer or their dogs. <G> And I never stayed in one place that long, either.But a carpenter I had been working for for only a week or so reached out a helping hand and I accepted it. My life did change, and so did evryone else I ever met for the rest of my life.Man, there is probably a short, weird book there, too. <G>Yep, same story, I've bought trucks for employees, took them home drunk in the middle of the night, on and on and on. . . This should probably be another thread following on that one not long ago about charity.But I would like to hear your thoughts.
Funny.. (not) that sounds exactly like life with two of my late DH's sons - the only answer for getting a decent life was to cut them loose.
as for fire'n the guy..... Man don't explain crap... except... sorry we don't need you any more... thanks for help'n out when we needed you... Period...
never ever explain in a situation like that... you don't owe it to him and he won't accept it as truth anyway...
I agree Pony. My line goes like this. "You have to leave now. You are off the clock. You are terminated." If he starts a discussion I cut it short and tell him "You have to immediately leave this jobsite of I will call the police and have you arrested for tresspassing." I don't remember having a discussion beyond that line besides the discussion of how they'll get their check.
It aint a Demcratic process.
blue
"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
three choices
1) fire him
2) hit him up the side of the head with a 2x
3) let the crew have him
.
The easy way out is to fail to pick him up.
But depending how your state runs labour laws, you probably need to be more forthright. Write a letter explainning that you are firing him for cause and state the cause along with the times you have already reprimanded him.
I had a guy I had to fire with good reason - starting fights with another guy on the crew. Turned out he had wanted to get fired so he could collect unemployment benfits.
When the state guy called to check things out and heard that the kid had already been warmned a couple of times, the case was close in ten seconds.
But the key is document it.
If your guys are legal, then you have no worries at all.
Personally, I don't think the guy would have lasted the first day with me. Part of my hiring interview is an explanation that he gets a probationary period while I see if he wil fit in with the rest of the crew.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Why is he still working for you?
LOL, 'cause he ain't been fired yet.But Sanchez will get himself in the right mood tonight, with a knot in his gut, think of how its best overall to get rid of the poisonous splinter and get up early in the morning, write a brief termination notice, and get ready to snarl and glare....Firing people is very hard on managers. I once read that more managers have heart attacks immediately after firing someone than any other time, as a group statistic.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
first off it seems odd your boss could not have a cuppa coffee with you and talk about it with you, then i might drop a hint to this guy that you have talked with ins already and everythings ok. I have found out these guys can be mean but dumb.
I don't know what state you're in, but you can call the state DILHR (Dept of Industry, Labor and Human Relations) and get the instructions for the right way to fire him. He won't have a leg to stand on if you do it their way. You may also be able to call the cops on him, because there may be a hate crime issue here.
A few general comments are in order here..... I have worked places where there were numerous folks, all of whom had papers." Every few months, they'd get rounded up by INS (because the papers were fake), get deported, .... and show up a few weeks later, with a new name and new papers. Legal? Yea, right. We've had other threads on this issue, and there is plenty of reason for some "racist opinions." You seem to have decided to get rid of this guy. There are two ways to do it: honest and dishonest. The honest way is to tell him what you've told us: his opinions are without basis, he is disrupting the workplace, you won't tolerate that, and he's gone. The dishonest way is to claim some sort of business problem (lack of work), explaining that unfortunately, you need to let him go (seniority), and wish him well. Whatever you do, have a witness present. Document your talks. Consider other preparations. For example, you may wish to consider increased job site security. It is very possible that a fired man will return, with crime on his mind. If he has a probation officer, you might have a chat with him as well.
It should have stopped as soon as he proclaimed he "couldnt work with wetbacks". No one is irreplaceble. I wouldnt have taken that twice.
Its ultimatum time. If you're in the position of hiring I would tell the boss about the problem at let him know that you wont work in that enviroment, no one should have to.
If that doesnt work, I sure as hell wouldnt be driving him to work.
Everybody is replaceable. When the tail wags the dog like that it is time to cut him loose. He is an "at will" employee. You can fire him for ANY undisclosed reason. Just give him his check say You don't work here anymore, You've been downsized, we have outsourced your position, addios amigos!
You might have to end up fireing this guy but first you and the crew should see if he has a sense of humor first. Laugh at him and his stupid jokes and then laugh at him for being a stupid grigo red neck. He'll either get humiliated and walk off or start laughing at himself for being stupid in the first place. If things get ugly call the badges in and have him put away again till he can behave.
Sanchez, it's just a two step process.
Step one: Hand him his check.
Step two: Say "Leave now, and don't come back."
That's all.
SamT
Guys that don't do things correctly the first time.....then argue that they did nothing wrong.....if made to agree to fix the problem, rarely put the time and effort into truely doing it properly. they'll just look for the quickest fix to appease you and get their money. JDRHI 84310.51
You need to be progressive in the punishment.
1) Verbal warning.
2) Written warning, and document in file.
3) Probation.
4) Time off without pay.
5) Termination
You need to have it spelled out in employee manual so everyone is aware.
You don't do this and the terminated employee can sue and be reinstated with back wages.
You need to be progressive in the punishment.1) Verbal warning.2) Written warning, and document in file.3) Probation.4) Time off without pay.5) Termination
You need to have it spelled out in employee manual so everyone is aware.
You don't do this and the terminated employee can sue and be reinstated with back wages.
You don't need to do any of this in any state in the US that I know of, although many other countries have such requirements. I assume the employee is not subject to a union collective bargaining agreement or other employment contract that would require good cause for discharge. As others have pointed out, if he is an at-will employee (i.e. no union of other contract rights) he can be fired for no reason and no reason needs to be given. The only exceptions are that you generally can't fire someone because of race, age, religion, etc. That does not mean that women, people over 40 or Episcopalians are immune from discharge, just that they can't be fired because they are women, over 40 or Episcopalians.
This is an area of the law that contains more misinformation than most.
By the way, keeping a racist dirtbag on the payroll may get you sued by an employee who claims that you have created a hostile work environment.
Edited 1/23/2007 12:34 pm ET by smslaw
You don't do this and the terminated employee can sue and be reinstated with back wages.
That's funny.
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
an employee who claims that you have created a hostile work environment
Ok, ugly mental picture: "Reasonable Accomodation" (that would past muster in the very artifical reality of a courtroom).
Hard to arrange "alternate workspace" or "lateral transfer" on a construction crew.
The policies and case law from 100 or 1000+ employee firms can often "fit" poorly with smaller firms. Which is not a good answer in the semi-uncomfortable chair there next to where the judge sits.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I disagree on the part about terminating him in front of the whole crew. One witness should be sufficient. More than that and he might claim that he was humiliated.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I'm with you Eddie, plus your sorta resorting to his level by doing so.
Doug
Sounds like you boss is as much the azzhole as the new help. You ask him a good question, one that deals with the legal system and state and federal laws and the response is..you can give back your bonus check....what a jerk!
your boss is pretty much like mine "either handle it yourself or I will get someone who will" and you can apply that to your help, " Either straighting up or I will get someone who will".
give him a 210 million dollar severance check
Cut him loose as soon as you can. Having someone around that poisons what sounds like is a good crew isn't going to do you any favors in the long run.
But first:
Document every interaction up to this point.
Do a little Google research on labor law in your state. It might be that 1,2, or 6 months is a probationary period and they can be terminated at will. In which case you are in the clear.
Talk to your department of labor and make sure you are on solid ground. Likewise with your unemployment office. No need to have your rates go up as a result of this jerk.
If this guy has a probation officer, talk to them. It's probably good for them to know what's going on with one of their cases, and just in case there's any subsequent site destruction you've already got a leg up.
Once you've got all this lined up, I'd fire him in front of your crew. If these guys are worth keeping around, I think it would be important for them to see you sticking up for them in a public way. After the abuse they've put up with, I imagine they'd appreciate it.
Good luck.
Seems to me you have 3 "management challenges"
Keeping the boss happy, keeping the crew happy, and getting rid of this guy without negative consequnces.
My suggestion: write up a draft plan which (i) describes the problem (ii) details what has been done to date and (iii) lays out what you intend to do.
Talk to the crew. Tell them you respect them and want to keep them from getting pizzed off and get rid of this guy without negatives, if possible.
Ask their advice (Employees love being asked their opinions/advice) and tell them why you hired him. I think most folks would understand your reasons for hiring him, and respect you for correcting the situation.
Make sure there won't be INS problems (I don't know much about that area but it sound as if you do.) Make sure no one is going to get caught up in that sort of problem. If it's a possibility, work something out
As someone said, check with INS, informally. In my experience, that sort of gov agency wants to help companies do it right. (If there's an INS opffice, stop in, be real nice top the receptionist and get her/his advice as to who to talk to.)
When you've formulated a plan, let your boss know in advance: "here's the probem, here's how I'm going to fix it." That's what bosses want. If possible, do it in writing.
If he tries to file against you (either with INS or unemployment) you want a paper record showing you acted "reasonably." "Arbitrary and capriocious" is the impression you want to avoid.
If you can, try to fix up the guy qith other possibilities. "we've gotta let you go, here are some other possibilities. Tell X I told you to call." But make sure X knows the situation
What made the teaching of Jesus different and apparently so hard to accept then as now, was that it required a critical reassessment of the structures and values and attitudes of human society as his listeners and followers shared in it.
- Monika K. Hellwig
from Jesus: The Compassion of God (The Liturgical Press, 1983)
If I was faced with the same situation I would have fired him the second time he offended, it's simply not acceptable, the moment he threatend calling INS he'd have walked.
Having someone like that is poison to the rest of the crew, will bring down moral, and lower productivity. Protect what you have going and dismiss the guy.
In your situation I would call the boss back and ask him to have the guys check for the work he has completed up until now and fire him first thing in the morning. Make sure to get all company property, key's, credit cards, etc. back.
I don't know what or if INS can do anything to do you. If you're worried keep a copy of your guys green cards on site. If I was in your situation I would be proactive, call INS, explain what is going on and ask what will happe if and when the guy calls.
so yes, not only can you fire him, you have too.
You've gotten a bunch of good advice here.
I understand your position -- I also have gone WAY too far in helping folks who were down and out, partly because it was done for me, but that's another story.
I'm throwing my 2 cents in here to encourage you to do the right thing for yourself and your crew now and get rid of this guy. Sure, it's painful for several reasons but so is dental work. <G>
The best time to do it would have been the first time he opened his mouth, right on the spot.
The second best time is now.
This is America, and there is NO place for racism EVER for ANY reason.
It's wrong, and in my opinion, it is wrong to tolerate it.
Guess we must have hit a nerve there. <G> I suppose what I am trying to say is that there is no reason to tolerate intolerance. <G>
I don't think this needs to be complicated. As previously suggested, go over to the labor department and do some homework, then just follow their recommendation. My sense is that when he shows up to file the claim he will not get a warm reception there.
As a side note, as far as I know discrimination is illegal in the workplace. Your tolerance of his behavior might have complications for your boss as well.
Tough situation to be in, but if you ignore it it won't go away.
I say let Pablo kick his azz! Then fire him if the azz kicking didnt do the trick.
Doug
It's hard to say to someone that it's time to move on. Unfortunately, it's something that just about everyone needs to do at one time or another.
It won't be easy, but it needs to happen.
Don't make a big long drawn out ordeal of it, simply say it isn't working out and that's that.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
when ever we fire someone, we have a sheriff deputy walk them off the property. The deputy there, when they get fired, he handed his papers and pay due and five minute later off the property..
when ever we fire someone, we have a sheriff deputy walk them off the property
That is pretty smart advice. having the "law" there already can quell something that might arise. People get shot every day for nothing, losing a job.............Semper Fi
"To be young and a conservative, you have no heart"
"To be old and a liberal, you have no mind"
Winston Churchill
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985
good time to kill 2 birds with one stone, tell him hes fired, you wanted to keep him but your boss said fire his sorry butt, Go pick up his pay tonight at your bosses home or office, Tell the guy he has a bonus comeing but only your boss can give it to him
Sanchez,
You came back and edited your original post, as a way of replying to everyone else who has posted here.
Anyone who has already read your first post, is not going to know that you edited it and replied to them. The forum will not tell them to "go back and rad again because Sanchez edited"...
You need to reply to that first post, instead, and let your reply to everyone be in a new post down here at the end of the thread. Then everyone will see it.
=0)
Like this?
" First off thnaks to everyone for the advice. Second , I called the boss for a check and called all my guys and told them to come in a half hour late and I will pay them for it so I can get rid of this piece of trash. I figured if he takes a swing at me I will be the one who goes to lock up and not my guys. I told all my guys to make shure 200% that all their papers are in line and I plan on calling I N S tommorrow to give them a heads up on this situation. The boss said that he will pull their paperwork to make shure his azz is covered and we should be good. I also apologized to my guys for bringing this piece of trash on the job and they were o k with it. I thought about giving him the sh!t detail like scrapping all the rock but I dont want him there on my job. I also called my friend and told him to tell his friend of a friend to never send another guy my way again. I still will try to help people because I am foolish or to trusting but it made me feel good at first (till he said something stupid). Like I said before I might be in prison or dead but there was someone out there that gave me a chance, took a gamble on me and I did everything I could to never go back to that life style. Maybe it was wishfull thinking that I could change someone that did not want to be changed. Live and learn I guess. Again thanks to all who took the time to read my post and offer advice.Edited 1/22/2007 10:16 pm ET by dirtysanchez"
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yup, like that.=0)
Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge
simple-not easy-but simple.
fire the guy in front of the crew-they will enjoy that-
THEN-take the whole crew out to lunch to celebrate-and apologise for dumping that idiot on them in the first place-and Tell them how much you appreciate their hard work.
Ya SHOULD have sent him down the road the very FIRST " I won't work with wetbacks" tirade
you do have my absolute sympathy-------- firing people is part of the reason I no longer choose to have employees
" wife tells me my problem is that I try to "save" everyone.)
Best wishes, Stephen
"Ya SHOULD have sent him down the road the very FIRST " I won't work with wetbacks" tirade"When I read his very first post describing that, I imagined myself in that position...Him
"I ain't gonna work with no stinkin' wetbacks"
Me
"That's fine. I don't want to make you do something that makes you unhappy. There's the road."done
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
wife tells me my problem is that I try to "save" everyone.)
Thats funny and I'm sure she's right.
blue
"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
blue,
my wife is probably right---and it's even funnier-because she is a school teacher and it is a rare week I don't hear some long tear jerker story about one of her students that she wishes she could bring home to live with us because of some horrible family situation the kid is suffering through---------------
apparently my role in this marriage is to be the "bad cop" to her "good cop"----------------- which is part of why I have chosen to proceed without employees--removes the temptation to try to " save" folks--------and cuts down on the baby sitting and requests for help with bail and loaning money mid week and on and on and on.
BTW---------- congrats to the o.P.------- i am sure he has had a miserable couple of days, with his guts twisted in a not over all this-but NOW------- I bet he is feeling sky high--amazed at how wonderfull his work life is without that guy bringing everyone down---------- life is GOOD again!
Stephen
P.S. When I posted, I knew I could simply cut and paste his response like you did.But I thought further along than that, and figured that it would be more helpful to him, if I didn't. If he had to do the cut and paste himself, it would stick with him better in the long run.Like writing something down helps you to remember it, even if you never see the piece of paper again.It wasn't just about being corrective. It was about being helpful to Sanchez in a more lasting way.=0)As it is, all this discussion of the point will likely work just as well, to the same effect.=0)
Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge
That is true - in respect to him, but he is already well burdened at this point with just thinking about this stressfull event and i was thinking more about the five hundred readers here who would each need to use time and bandwidth to go back to see the edit you had brought to our attention.Thank you for so doing, BTW
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
ROFLOL"The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few."Good call.=0)
Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge
Anyone got any ideas on how I can fire a guy that has been making racist statements about my crew
Grow some nads and just tell the guy to pack it in.
"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
I hope today goes well for you . . . at least minimally unpleasant, anyway.
<< I still will try to help people because I am foolish or to trusting but it made me feel good at first (till he said something stupid). Like I said before I might be in prison or dead but there was someone out there that gave me a chance, took a gamble on me and I did everything I could to never go back to that life style. Maybe it was wishfull thinking that I could change someone that did not want to be changed. Live and learn I guess.>>
I'm still hoping Ponytail will weigh in here.
Nothing to do with foolish. I too would not be here today if it were not for the generosity and compassion of a fellow tradesman. The only difference is I wanted to do something for myself, too.
I hope you will never give up on your principles. Only learn to see if someone really wants to help themselves.
So much more to learn about that, and I don't know it yet.
Report back and let us know how it went for you today.
Don't give up on helping people, most people are where they are today because someone helped them at one point or another. Simply realize that you can't help those who don't want it and some people are not worthy of your good intentions so be willing to let them go when need be.
I've had to fire three people, two people made it easy and I felt no remorse, the third was a little harder. The bottom line is you need to do what is best for the company and team as a whole.
Don't let the one percent (the exception) set your rules and make the other 99% pay for it.
No more work, Pick up your final check in 2 weeks at the office.
Sorry it didn't work out, have a nice day.
most states where I have worked, it is a matter of labour law that when firing somebody, you have to pay them off on the spot. No waiting for final check.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
most states where I have worked, it is a matter of labour law that when firing somebody, you have to pay them off on the spot. No waiting for final check
That's how it is in MI, and once in a while one of these guys will try to invoke that law. I simply tell him that he'll get paid just like Ive already explained but if he really wants to force an issue he can file a complaint with the Michigan Department of Labor. I offer to go the the truck to get the number for him to call...I have it in my address book.
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
Hi DS,
I agree with most here. He has to go. NOW.
No lame excuses or stories that can get twisted. Give him a letter, keep a copy, have a witness with you. Keep it short, sweet and simple.
"you are being terminated because......... Here it is in writing. Thankyou. Goodbye."
Tell your boss, arrange for extra surveillance for a while. Watch you back, personally.
It will not get better. Do it professionally and now. Do not let him bait you or anyone else. Say no more to him.
Did I say do it now? If you're "da man" BE "da man". You owe it to your crew and company.
...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...
Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home.
Well, I'm not real tolerant that way. I'd likely rolled down the window and suggested something like "Apoligias, nada trabadjor por tu manana; quiza nunca."
Ok, and my other first thought was to drop him off in whichever bordertown was most handy, too--come out of County and have a job, that's a lucky person. Person that ought to not cast aspersions, racial or otherwise, on the unjailed.
Ok, I'm a little un-wound up now. So, no expatriation. Drop the dude off at LaborReady or the like, or the Workforce commission. The friend-of-friend asks, just say that your schedules and such just weren't working out, and you have a crew to run.
This thread has me thinking about employment termination procedures in general. What are the reasons for terminating someone? Assume it's all At Will.
RIF, Rehire.
Rif, No rehire.
Retirement
Good worker, but. . .
Good worker, personality conflict.
Good worker, unqualified.
Criminal activity.
Hired by one fired by another.
Lied on App.
Loud mouthed bigot, etc.
???
I think this thread indicates that for the LMB, just pay him off and tell him to leave now, is the proper procedure. I fired one guy my boss hired as soon as I saw him. I made my boss give him $10 cash out of his pocket and told the little *** to get off my site and not come back. That was probably not legal, but it was my town and I knew I could get away with it.
One large outfit I worked for used to hire the same people for 6-9 months every 2 or 3 years. They used a RIF Termination form that summarized payroll, indicated rehire/nohire, and had a slot to indicate when, if known, a position would be offered. This slot was used so the local unemployment office would approve any claims.
What's the procedure when you catch someone cooking the books? Or just doesn't work out?SamT
Guys that don't do things correctly the first time.....then argue that they did nothing wrong.....if made to agree to fix the problem, rarely put the time and effort into truely doing it properly. they'll just look for the quickest fix to appease you and get their money. JDRHI <!----><!----> 84310.51
I once worked for a 'very large' company. Trying to fire someone was next to impossible. (That was back in the 70's & 80's when the company was a 'lifetime' career).
I once got really steamed at a particular employee and threw caution to the wind and told him he was fired. (I failed to go thru the 50 step process laid out by our genius's in personnel. )
I came back to the office, told my boss and he said "but you can't do that without etc etc etc"
Sooooo I went back to the person, told him he wasn't fired, that I screwed up on a technicality. That was on a Friday afternoon.
On Monday, he came into my office, turned in his stuff and said "I quit. If I was saved on a technicality, its just a matter of time before you get my #%& and I can't stand the pressure of waiting for the other shoe to drop."
I shook his hand, congratulated him on his wisdom and wished him well !!!!
Well I got rid of that piece of trash this morning at 6:30. Went to his apt. and picked him up and did not say anything to him till we got to work and his check was there. Did not say a word to me at first, just stood there with that check in his hand looking sad and tearry eyed. I said "this could have been prevented it you kept your mouth shut and did your job". Then he started yelling at me that it was my fault and I took the others guys side in the whole matter. I said your right I did take their side because these guys have been with me for a few years and we are all like a family.
I told him that he was lucky that I did not let the crew deal with his azz and he just got fired. Then he started apologizing to me and I said to late now get out of here before they show up. I gave him an extra $5.00 for bus fare and that was it.
I hate to get rid of people that way and I hope I don't have to do it again. All the guys had all their papers with them and I told them to hang on to them for a few days, not knowing if he was going to go through with his threat or not. We will have to wait and see.
Again thanks to all who helped with advice. Even the advice on how I should have posted the edit.
you will feel better in a couple days.
Good for you DS, glad it all worked out!Semper Fi
"To be young and a conservative, you have no heart"
"To be old and a liberal, you have no mind"
Winston Churchill
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985
No fun, but necessary.
Good Job!
Good for you, DS.He may not ever accept responsibility for his own behavior, but you did make the responsible choice which is all you can do.Like the Warden said in Cool Hand Luke, some men just can't be reached.
All the guys had all their papers with them and I told them to hang on to them for a few days, not knowing if he was going to go through with his threat or not. We will have to wait and see.
Pretty sad state of affairs when a man has to bring his papers to work. WTF is this like it was during WWII? This Country is going down the Drain, Is there any Leadership? Glad am 50+ & not 20 years old.
Tell your guys not to worry! It does'nt matter anymore. You really think anyone from this Gov't is going to do anything?
turn the tables on his threat...tell him that you placed an anonymous call to INS asking about work force investigations. inform him that you were told all employees are screened and investigated, including yourself. if this clown just left jail he won't want to be sniffed by any government agency.
You better be careful, I had to fire some guys and it didn't go to well.
We were working on interstate 10 outside New Orleans installing turn-a-rounds between Kenner and La Place.
The job was completed and the company didn't have anyplace for workers to go. I handed out pink slips to everyone including myself and one guy flipped out.
He blaimed me for being let go and I tried to tell him that we were all being let go but he didn't believe me.
He grabed me from behind and moved towards the interstate trying to through me into the thaffic. I slamed the back of my head into his face, breaking his nose and right cheek bone and he let me go.
I turned around and beat the crap out of this guy so bad that he stayed in the hospital over three weeks.
I got four years probation because of this. The police said I should have stopped beating him when he was down but this SOB scared the crap out of me and I knew it was either him or me, and if I let him get me he would kill me.
Don't trust anyone.
busta
"It ain't da seafood dat makes ya fat anyway -- it's da batta!"
that blows me away,guy tries to push you into traffic and you were to rough on him.if some guy breaks into my house and i pull a gun and shoot him ,you better know i'm not going over after the first bullett and ask if he gives.i'm going to pull the damm trigger to nothing else comes out,then i'm going to beat him with the gun.it ani't my problem that he started something and it didn't work out for him the way he wanted.it amazes me how law works sometimes. larryhand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
I think you've gone out of your way to help the guy, to try to steer him right by awakening him to the work environment he's in, by indicating to him clearly what circumstances he could face, and by informing everyone (your boss, your crew, the friend of a friend of a friend, and the feds). Fire him and for a while hire a night watchman for your jobsite and offices. He's gotta have some more loose screws, and you don't know what he's capable of.
Love your "handle"...
Not sure how many are gettin' it...
I don't get it. Would you please explain?
So you're saying you love Dirty San... never mind.
Thanks for the warningyouse guys are one sick puppy
Barry E-Remodeler