I got a call tonight for a leak at a restaurant. The leak is a pinhole leak shooting a small “atomized” stream of water, enough that it needed attention immediately. The pinhole developed at a joint into a T fitting. The copper supply tube is a hot water line that feeds scalding hot water to the dishwasher via 1 1/4″ copper line. Thus, the pinhole is at a soldered joint of 1 1/4″ copper into a 1 1/4″ T fitting.
At this hour I can’t get parts anywhere. I shut off the water til morning. But in case I ever have this problem again, how do you fix a pinhole leaK to buy some time to do the repair?
I went to HD and bought this pipe wrap that is for stopping leaks. It says you must have 15 layers of wrap for it to be successful. It’s like a guage wrap coated with plaster. But it’s for lines up to 1″, this was 1 1/4″ After a 30 minute cure time I repressurized the line, and all it did was leak like crazy. So much for that solution.
So what do you do in such an emergency situation, not able to get parts? Is there some foolproof way to stop a leak temporarily until the repair can be made?
Replies
Best solution is to drain the line. Use compressed air, if available, to blow as much water out of the line as possible. Slowly warm the joint and area with a soft and weak flame to get it dry inside and out. Keep the valves open so the steam has somewhere to go. Wet rags can be applied to any nearby joints and valves you don't wish to involve.
Then with a strong, concentrated flame quickly heat he joint and flow in some solder. Some times if you warm and dry the pipe internally you can close the valve and quickly solder the joint. air trapped within the pipe is cooling and the slight vacuum created helps draw in the solder. Probably better to keep the valves open and let simple capillary action draw in the solder.
I have had some luck, lacking a torch at the time, 'peening' the copper. Using a dulled scribe I position the tip on the female fitting directly above the leak. Then I tap it with a hammer forcing the copper down firmly onto the break. It didn't stop the leak but it slowed it quite a bit. Sometimes you can wrap the leaking area in sheet rubber, sometimes a small piece that only covers a side of the pipe is best, and apply a stainless-steel worm-drive band clamp. Sometimes, especially on a split pipe, two or more.
Both these later methods work pretty well on pipes you can't dewater or depressurize. You get wet and often it only slows the flow. Sometime a good enough outcome. For a time.
If the leak is relatively small but the spray, as opposed to the volume of water, is the issue you can wrap the leak in rags and let one tail down. The spray is caught by the cloth and looses velocity. Flowing down the tail where it is easily caught by a bucket, trashcan or allowed to flow to a floor drain.
A friend once temporarily sealed a pinhole by deperessurizing and draining the line and applying a drop of Superglue. He said he, using his mouth, blew into the pinhole to clear it of water, and forced the glue in a bit with a toothpick. You could also try epoxy instead of Superglue.
Which brings up simply hammering in a toothpick. The toothpick being dry swells when it absorbs water so it seals the hole. This either works of makes the hole larger. Sometime the first for a bit and then the later. Maybe, in a modern adaptation, you could hammer in the wood and add a drop of Superglue.
Just a few ideas.
Well if parts are what you need places like some supply houses like Grainger will open 24/7 for an emergency opening fee.
I once stopped a pinhole leak on 1 1/2" pipe with a folded electrical tape held in place with channel locks. Holding the channel locks old in a real hurry but I managed to get them to stay in place with ...
more electrical tape.
Like the toothpick, I had a pinhole---couldn't shut off the water to the furnance humidifier, so put a small nail into the pinhole. Plumber thought I was nuts until he pulled the nail and had the high pressure water hit his face.....
Emergency fix for copper pipe leak
I got a call from a restaurant for a copper plumbing leak. It's a pinhole leak right at a soldered joint of 1 1/4" copper pipe and a 1 1/4" T fitting. I tried some of that pipe wrap tape I got at a home center but it did not work. Is there some foolproof way to stop a leak temporarily until the repair can be made?
Edited for use of the spell checker.
Edited 9/1/2005 5:07 am ET by Matt
For the long term, if the leak is a hole through the copper itself, and the pipe is very old, the pipe is likely toast and the entire section needs to be replaced. Or, maybe even the entire plumbing system, assuming it is all the same age. Pinholes in copper pipe are most often caused by corrosive chemicals in the water, and generally, the corrosion is not going to effect just 1 spot. So, when 1 pinhole leak develops, others will follow.
If the leak is actually just in the pipe fitting connection it may have just been faulty workmanship from the start that caused the problem.
Really though, the short answer to your question is to call a plumber.
If you as a handy man (?) make a plumbing repair on some one else's property and they come back the next day to find 2" of water in the building do you really think they would just say = "Oh, that's OK - we don't mind buying all new carpet, hardwood floors, and furniture. We know you did the best you could"?
Recommend you stick to your chocolate factory rather than hiring out your services for things you know nothing about. I'm sure your insurance company shares this sentiment - assuming that you are actually running a business and have insurance.
Matt, that was a broad leap, based on a screen name. WW may be a "handyman" or a "professional", and was asking for advice, not your assumed opinion of his competence.
Williewonka;
4lorn1's suggestion of the rubber sheet wrap and pipe clamp is the easiest and quickest temporary fix. Having those items in stock is something you might want to consider for future emergency repair calls. There are also repair clamps made by Dressler that are designed for just such situations. They are manufactured stainless steel clamps with a rubber casket sheet inside a clamping shell. The shell has bolts and ears dogs for the nuts to pull the clamp closed. They are a little pricey in the larger sizes, but can be reused on other jobs. I keep 1/2, 3/4, and 1" sizes in my plumbing repair box.
You may be able to find them at a big box store by looking for repair clamps/fitting in the copper fittings section of the plumbing department. If not there, try a local plumbing supply house, they will likely have them or be able to order them for you. Be sure to ask for potable water repair clamps because these things are also made for gas line repairs, and that version is not suitable for potable water line repairs.
BTW, I repaired a 2 1/2" service line 4' underground with one of them 10 years ago, and it is still buried and holding. Not my idea to leave it that way, but I don't make those decisions around here. They must be pretty good, or we have just been very lucky.
Dave
Dave
I just got reading through the thread where the original poster seemed not to know the difference between a beam and a post. http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=62546.1 If you have time to waste, read it and think about the direction of this forum.
Re this thread, the guy said "I got a call tonight for a leak at a restaurant." Which to me presented himself as someone who was providing services for money... I don't know... maybe the call was to come pick up a drunk friend and the plumbing leak issue only arose after he arrived and the acquaintance/proprietor asked WW to "take a look" ;-) As far as my reference to his screen name - that was a joke... sorry I didn't add the smiley face :-)
We gotta have standards around here. Otherwise time would be better spent watching HGTV...
Edited 9/1/2005 6:59 am ET by Matt
I think the direction of this forum has been well established in previous threads over the last year or two when others complain of HOs coming here or DIYers who don't know, as you say the difference between a beam and a post. It's been suggested not once, twice or 3 times, but more than that, that no one owns BT, which would include yourself and myself, and that no one holds a gun to your head to read a post or to reply to one. Thus, if you see a post you feel is someone incompetent, what is it to you or to anyone else, you're not forced to read it or respond are you? Personally I happen to enjoy trying to educate HOs or DIYers on occasion in this forum under the assumption (yeah I make them, too) that it might make it easier for them, or for the contractor they eventually call to fix it when it doesn't go entirely right. You had to learn sometime, didn't you? Same here. No one trained me, I taught myself everything I know, and fortunately, BT has assisted that ongoing education dramatically.If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
"I just got reading through the thread where the original poster seemed not to know the difference between a beam and a post. http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=62546.1 If you have time to waste, read it and think about the direction of this forum."Indeed.A homeowner who doesn't know the difference between a beam and a post noticed something about his house that made him uneasy. He posted on Breaktime and, after some discussion, was able to put his fears to rest.What is Breaktime coming to??For the record, I've been reading and posting to Breaktime for seven or eight years. Such questions have been asked and answered for at least that long. If such questions were not welcome here, this place wouldn't be worth ####.Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
Thanks, Dave, sounds like good advice. HD didn't have anything like that, that's why I bought that pipe wrap to give it a try that didnt' work.
My local plumbing shop is where I get most of my supplies, I am confident they'll know immediately to what you refer to and I'll certainly get some of those so thanks for telling me about them.
If the leak is coming from the solder joint itself, will these things still have the potential of working? I ask only because you know how the fitting the pipe goes into will be a thicker diameter than the pipe, creating an uneven surface to clamp on. If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
Some else that I was going to suggest. But I don't think that it would work if the leak was in the joint. I was thinking that it was in the fitting.Get a real brass screw (no brass plated steel) and screw that in the pin hole leak. Then solder it in place.
I have use them on at least one 3/4" tee and a 1" ell, along with a coupling or two, with success. I did hedge a little on the first two fittings by packing the casket wrap with a little plumbers epoxy putty, because I wasn't real confident of the fit of the gasket at the fitting shoulder. I made permanent repairs the following morning on all of those emergency fixes.
Dave
WEll, Matt, gee I really appreciate your vote of confidence. For the record I am incorporated, and I am insured. My skills are pretty refined. I've soldered tons of joints over the years and only scarcely ever have a leaking joint. I know what I'm doing and I do what I do quite well, thank you. I do not consider myself a handyman, I am trying to run a home improvement business. Most of the time that means I'm doing odd home repairs vs. major renovations, but I do both quite very well thank you very much and I work quite long hours to earn the pay I make just like others here, and perhaps yourself as well.
Do you know everything there is to know? I have excellent plumbing skills, I meet code requirements, I know how to properly size and plumb a home or a business and meet local codes as well. So maybe that all makes me a glorified chocolate factory worker in your eyes? The fact is, I"m good at what I do, but I'm certainly humble enough to admit I don't know EVERYthing. Had this leak occured during a time I could get parts I'd have no problem with fixing it. However it was after hours, I need one T fitting and while my supply shop would open for an emergency at 11:30pm at night, the cost is absurd to pay for that service when there may be a simple remedy I was unaware of. This is the first time I encountered a problem like this afterhours and needed to put on my "what to do" thinking cap. I'm so glad there are such nice and friendly and supportive people like you on BT. Since your'e good at assuming things, then next time I'll write to you directly and I'll give you say 5 of the 10 facts you need to know to solve my problem so that you can assume at least 5 of them for me in devising your solution. If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
OK - my bad... sincere apologies... sounds like you got some good advice from others. The tooth pick thing sounded like a neat trick. I'd be the first to admit I don't know a lot about plumbing, but to tell you the truth I think I'd try duct tape before I'd try one of those pipe bandages :-) I got some killer duct tape from the HVAC guy :-) Come to think of it I have some flashing tape that I could tie up a summa wrestler with - yea - :-) that's the ticket :-)
Edited 9/1/2005 7:20 pm ET by Matt
Duct tape. Ha, of course. That and drywall screws do hold the world together last I looked, so of course, it should be a logical choice.
Well the repair has been made, so I won't get to see how the duct tape idea works. But Ill try to recall that idea if I get this problem again. It may indeed do the trick, strange as it may sound. Oh, and maybe one squirt of WD40.
As far as the "Your bad" thing. No issue with me, got more to worry about than a misunderstanding with anyone. If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
"I've soldered tons of joints over the years and only scarcely ever have a leaking joint. I know what I'm doing and I do what I do quite well, thank you."
" I have excellent plumbing skills'
uh ... so why can't you fix an emergency freaking pin hole leak?
just curious.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Have you no sensitivaty?
Mr. Buck?
Edited 9/2/2005 12:15 am ET by TRIGGER
I was on his side till that rant of I can do it all!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Willie,
You don't say if it's a leak from a gone-bad joint , or a pinhole in the copper.
If the first, open valves and drain, heat the area till the water inside quits sizzling (dry.) Close the valve and let cool while wiping with flux til the flux won't liquify.
Open the vale and resolder.
If it's a pinhole in the copper, drive a wood screw, a sheet metal screw, or even a Piffin screw partway into the hole.
Repair properly in the next coupla days(|:>)
SamT
Sam, it looks like a joint that went bad, not the copper pipe itself. FYI.If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
For copper pinholes, a fix that is permanent, is to depressurize, drain and dry the line. Drill out the hole to about an 1/8" and ensure there is adequate wall thickness for repair. Take a brass screw, I use pan head, but any type will do as long as it is brass. Flux the hole and screw, insert and screw until tight. Hit it with flame and solder, and collect your accolades and paycheck. I've done several of these, the first maybe 15 years ago, right in my own basement, and it is still there, doing its job.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
The exception to this is if the hole is caused by erosion. Too big of a recirc pump on a hot water line will cause erosion of the copper, usually at a 90 or a tee. A screw in the pipe will make the situation worse.
The exception to this is if the hole is caused by erosion. Too big of a recirc pump on a hot water line will cause erosion of the copper, usually at a 90 or a tee. A screw in the pipe will make the situation worse.
Really? Who'd have thunk that. As a matter of fact, I learned today that this hot water line was actually the boiler recirculation loop, and, like you said, it happened at a tee. I wonder if their recirc pump is too big. If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
To fix a pinhole in the joint of a T-fitting, turn off the water, wipe more or less dry, then wrap the joint with a piece of old bicycle inner tube. Hold this in place with two or three wraps of hockey tape going over all and past the edges of the rubber a turn or two. Then wrap the hockey tape tightly with cotton butcher's twine or (if you can get any) tarred marline. Lay an inch of cord along the pipe, then wrap over that tightly, laying each turn hard against the previous one, until you've covered the whole patch completely. You must really haul on the cord as you wrap. Allow no slack anywhere. You are compressing the tape and the rubber into the pipe. Finish this 'service' (that's what riggers call this cord wrapping) by tucking the end under two or three turns and hauling it all tight as you can.
Finish with a final wrapping of hockey tape (to make sure the service doesn't loosen up), and hang a "King's Point Gasket" (a small bucket) underneath until morning. But chances are you won't find any water in the bucket if you've applied the patch nice and snug.
I once had to fix a 75 psi pressure tank on a jet-pump system under circumstances similar to yours. The tank had developed a pinhole below the air bladder, and water was squirting out and jetting across the room. I fixed it by squirting a bit of cheap silicone caulk onto the pinhole, slapping a popsicle stick over that, and holding the popsicle stick in place with a few turns of hockey tape and service as described above. Thirteen years later, it's still holding....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Nick, that's interesting. I wished I'd known about this last night, I'd really like to try it. Showing some ignorance here, but what is the significance of it being a brass screw? I saw someone else said to use a brass screw also.
If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
Well you want something that will not corrode and can be soldered.Thus a brass screw.
Try jiggeling the pipes where the leak is with the pressure on.
I'm sorry., I couldn't help it.