That subject line sounds like one of those stupid
-enhancing SPAM emails doesn’t it?&
#160; Sorry but couldn’t think of anything better.
So even more friends in my area are losing their jobs in the business….So instead of closing up shop and falling amongst them, as finding a job now would be next to impossible, how can I grow my business to step above the others I am losing work to.
Do we up and hire some guys and then look for only large jobs? Do we specialize in only one area? Do we use newly hired guys to pound the pavement handing out flyers?
The small jobs we have been fighting for are too competitive so do I need to think bigger?
Just brainstorming here and always appreciative of any advice.
Thanks
P.S. I see it even filters out proper anatomical terms as I didn’t use the slang for “it”.
Mike
Edited 8/29/2007 5:19 pm ET by Oak River Mike
Replies
How big has your marketing budget been and how have you been using it?
Edit: If you don't want to use real numbers, round up to the nearest 1 or 5 followed by some zeros.
SamT
Edited 8/29/2007 6:58 pm by SamT
SamT,
Our marketing budget is as big as we want it to be but honestly all the advertising we have done in the past (newspapers, Service Magic, BNI, etc) has not worked very well.
What next a TV spot?
Uhm, sorry, maybe I wasn't clear.Advertising is to Marketing like framing is to construction.
Sales is to marketing like paint and trim is to construction,
Market research is like Structural Engineering.I'm making these up as I go along, so some analogies might not quite fit, OK?A little sidebar in preperation for the next analogy; A business has three main legs, The Office, which is the business of management; Production, which is the business of making things; and Marketing which is the business of income.OK? The analogy: Marketing is to income as the Architect is to construction.It's getting late, and I've had a long day, so I'm just gonna finish this with a short list of what the Marketing Architect does to create a plan.Define the business. This is like As Builts;
Define the businesses' ideal customer;
Research the demographics of the market area to find the location of the ideal customer. This is the Target Market;
Discover what the Target Market needs and wants;
See if the business definition fits those needs, and recommend changes to the business to make it fit;
Determine what type of advertising will appeal to the Target Market;
Recommend Sales tactics that will appeal to the Target Market.At the bottom range across the nation, expect to pay a good Marketing "Architect" in the ballpark of $4,000 for the above.A Marketing guru can also develop a Branding Program that will keep the company's name familiar to the Target Market.Advertising is a different subject, call it like plumbing to construction. 'Cuz it's full of ... it (|:>) The delivery of your advertising should be the cheapest part of your Advertising budget.Reading over those, I can see that it is not the best writing I've ever seen, but it might be clear enough to give you something to think about.I'm sorry, I'm really brain dead right now.SamTEdited 8/29/2007 11:43 pm by SamTEdited 8/29/2007 11:43 pm by SamT
Edited 8/29/2007 11:44 pm by SamT
Who is your Ideal Customer?1. How much can they afford to pay for your ideal job?
2. What does that imply about their income and wealth?
3. What kind of home do they own?
4. What is their lifestyle?
5. What kind of work do they do?
6. Where do they live? What class neighborhood? Important!
7. How old are they?The more details you can imagine, the better. To perform the best quality job of creating the description of your Ideal Customer, write three Personas, something you could hand to a character actor to use. When you know where they live, get a hold of every Gov agency that has anything to do with residences and people; City P&D, HUD, U.S. Census, whomever, and discover as much as you can about that area(s).When you know the demographic facts about your Market modify the description of your Ideal Customer to fit the facts, then check to see if the definition of your business fits the Ideal Customer and decide what you're going to do about it if it doesn't.The modified Personas will be used by the Advertising Department and are good Sales training aids.SamT
how's your business set up?
how much field work do U do personally ...
how much can U do.
and how many office personal is there.
I've lived thru one great company with all the word of mouth referals and best reputation go bankrupt ...
because the office overhead ate all the profit.
there were other problems ... but there were 3 owners at the beginning of the crumble.
any profit split 3 ways from the start ain't much of a profit when 3 owners are taking their "salery" off the top first ...
then there was the "rob peter to pay paul" deal ...
and the decision to "grow" to pay paul was the final nail in the coffin.
better woulda been to downsize first. I've also been around other companies ... that grew ... but never adresed the idea that "mistakes happen in the field" ...
"not on the design/ bid board" ...
and growing just made hiding that fact and placing random blame easier ...
till that house of cards fell.
I'd identify the problems first ...
then work on a fix.
Not sure how getting bigger can help ... as 2 or 3 guys can build a million dollar addition in a timely fashion.
if U can land the bigger jobs ... get better at scheduling the work and hiring the right subs to move it along.
again ... all this is speculation from my keyboard ... I have no idea how your company is set up.
Just things to consider ... not a personal challenge!
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I'm a one man outfit, and I'm doing well at that level.
I do have a few contractor friends who I can call upon for larger jobs, but that's kind of rare.
I market myself as a finish carpenter, with a lot of repair experience. There isn't much I don't know how to do, but I don't take jobs that I'm not comfortable with, like roofing and siding, and masonry. Or jobs so big that 1 person can't do most of it.
I haven't advertised in years, but find word of mouth generates enough work, without having to screen potential customers much.
I have to admit that I don't have kids, so the need to make enough to cover their expenses isn't there. But I am able to put away something for my eventual retirement.
I only work about 40 hours a week right now, sometimes less. I'm beyond the need to try and kill myself to keep my customers happy. I'm fortunate that they seem happy and willing to wait for me; sometimes for several months.
It's taken me about 15 years to get to this point; I have worked crazy hours in the past. And the economy here in NJ is a lot healthier than in MI.( I've still got in-laws in Mi.)
Shep,
Thanks for the reply. I think I am where you are right now but honestly, doing it all myself frustrates me. I have to sub out some things due to permitting requirements and then the profits on the smaller jobs go down.
I too am without kids but I WANT to make more. I could go and get another job and make what I am making now but I want to hit a higher mark.
And I am still working those crazy hours you mentioned.
Mike
I happen to like doing it all myself. And having variety in what I do is important to me. I can't do plumbing or electrical for code reasons, but that's OK with me.
I don't understand why getting a sub make your profits go down on smaller jobs, tho. Don't you mark up the sub? You should be making money doing nothing when a sub is involved.
I've hooked up with a kitchen guy. I do the carpentry on his jobs (I'm a sub)- probably about 6-8 jobs a year with him. I just finished a job with him a few weeks ago. Now the HO wants me to do some more work in the house.
Is there any networking you can do to find jobs? An architect, your lumber yard, even a big builder who's not interested in smaller jobs will sometimes throw work your way.
sometimes growth is the quickest way to bankrupcy.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Jeff,
Understood but if I stay as I am right now, I will be shut down by year's end.
Mike
Mike,
I don't have any perfect answers , but, a large custom home builder I have been trimming for for 12 years now just more or less dried up this year. I on the other hand have tried very hard keeping my name out there over the years doing renovations, small additions, bathrooms, kitchens, etc. All of the leads I have been getting lately are for this type of work - not new construction. It's too early to tell if it's coincidence or if that is going to be the trend but I'm watching closely. Also - experience has been that the first person to return a customer's initial call increases the chances of getting the job considerably. customers like constant communication. more important than getting to the actual job quickly. took me a while to learn that one. I also cover a large area (about a 1 hour radius from my house) which sometimes has me driving two hours between jobs when I'm checking in on them. It's a pain but the people want to see you on site so I inconvenience myself often in order to keep the people talking positive about us. ultimately this leads to referals.
I've had little to no response from advertising )yellow pages, papers, home improvement inserts, direct mailngs - maybe a handfull of calls over the years.
instead, take time to "chat" with people in the morning on your way to work while getting coffee, look happy and confident. be positive and energetic, truck signs seem to help. Customers gravitate towards positive people who show they have confidence in what they do and seem happy to be doing it.
Good luck, hang in there,
Jason
"it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."
Bozini Latini
Thanks Jason. I guess thats my frustration as I have been doing EXACTLY what you talk about! Return EVERY call as fast as possible, look clean, be professional, etc.
Just not working as well as I wish it would.
But at least I know it DOES work for folks so I will keep trying.
Thanks again
Mike
The lead thing is the key along with learning to sell yourself. But also I think narrowing the field somewhat simplifys the marketing of the business. We advertise a 3 specialties but will do other things if time allows. Specializing also simplify's help hiring.
But beyond that, at least in my case, the answer of how to expand.........money. I needed more trucks, more men and equipement to handle more work. And I could not have done it if I couldn't have invested money into the business. Debt only drives up overhead which is a killer so cash is king in this instance. DanT
Mike, I'll just toss in my usual advice about making planned calls on the more obvious key people.
I'd visit the owners/managers of my suppliers with an album of my best photos showing our work, particularly the places where I'd used product purchased from that person's company.
I'd go through the photos at his desk, showing off and talking about how happy the HO is with the job. I'd thank him for his help in making my jobs a success and tell him that I was looking forward to continuing our rewarding association.
That's the kind of appreciation that suppliers seldom get and if you do it with warmth and sincerity it's almost certain to pay back big and sooner rather than later.
Like I had said, I don't really know, I'm just thankfull to be busy for now. Hope it stays that way. could change in a heartbeat."it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."Bozini Latini
Try a networking group. I Don't get alot of leads because I'm mostly commercial. I have a ton of folks asking for residential work tho. I belong to A.M. Spirit & the leads I get tend to be quality.
Excuse me if I have this wrong, but it seems to me that the title of this thread "How to get bigger," is a creative way of asking "How to get more work in a devastating Florida economy?"
I'm of course, no expert on the matter, especially by means of experience. However, David Gerstel (author of Running a Successful Construction Company from The Taunton Press) seems to be, and it was based on his book that I recently gave someone this advice in a thread on advertising:
"Your best form of advertising is warranty work. Make sure you do the job perfectly so that warranty work isn't needed. Then instead of spending your money on typical advertising, periodically call back after you've finished the job. Offer to do something, anything they could possibly think of, just to do some kind of warranty work. Offer to maintain the project until their almost sick of it. Once you do that, word of mouth will travel faster than any type of media imaginable."
I followed up that advice with the statement: "If that doesn't work - just move - you'll never find many jobs there." That advice was based on a book of one of the most successful carpenters I know of; Finish Carpenter's Manual by Jim Tolpin. I understand from past threads, however, that you're not in a position to move. Perhaps, as Stephen R. Covey put it (author of The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People), you can "synergize." That is, 'figure out a way to make one plus one equal three.' In other words, make it happen through creativity.
You might not be able to literally move, but maybe you can move your business by using something you are obviously already very familiar with - the internet. Do you have a shop? Although you will probably never be able to compete with factory machines that churn out mass productions, have you though, ever thought of building custom cabinets? Is their perhaps something ells you could deliver out of state? Maybe you could start a DIY consulting business; having homeowners choose a design, then mailing it to them and guiding them through it.
You may have thought of these things already, but I thought I'd give it a go just in case.
-T
"That advice was based on a book of one of the most successful carpenters I know of; Finish Carpenter's Manual by Jim Tolpin."
I'm not saying that is bad advice, but you might be interested to know that Jim Tolpin is not a carpenter. Or a woodworker. He is a writer.
I used to think the information in his trim carpentry book was based on his own professional experience, and maybe a little of it is, but he told me face to face that most of the business information was provided to him by talking with real building professionals, which he is not.
Nice enough guy, and prolific writer. "Successful carpenter"? Definately not. Huck said it first. I just agreed with him.
Very interesting. You know Jim Tolpin? That's awesome! How do you know Jim? Are you guys neighbors or something? How many other famous carpenters/carpentry writers do you know?-T
Aaahhh, just when I thought you had mended your ways. Jim is another guy that doesn't lie just so you know. Most folks here find him and his writing quite credible. DanT
I didn't say he wasn't credible, I was being sincere. I don't think you're not credible either, we just had a misunderstanding. I thought you were attacking me, and I wasn't as polite as I should've been. I apologized to you for that, but if you want to hold a grudge, that is up to you. I'm going to exit this thread now, so that it's original subject is not side-tracked. If there is anything ells you're going to say to me, feel free to e-mail.-T
How many other famous carpenters/carpentry writers do you know?
He is a famous carpentry writer. He's in the club.
View Imagehttp://grantlogan.net/
"he ot the placed closed down whyyy thhhattt nnooo gooodddd" - sancho
I wouldn't say I know him, but we spent a few hours together a few years ago. He lives a little ways up the road from me so I contacted him, met him for lunch, and picked his brain about writing a little. That's all.
The thing that amazed me the most about the entire deal was I had his Trim Carpentry book and one time after bidding trimming a house using my numbers, I ran the same job through using his numbers in the back of that book. We were within 2% or so of each other and that's one of the things I told him when we met for lunch. He said that Sebastian somebody (a restoration carpenter in Port Townsend, WA who also writes for FHB) had given him most of those numbers since Sebastian had actually figured out how to make a living at carpentry.
Other famous writers? I've met several. Wouldn't go so far as to say I KNOW any of them. Stephen Hazlett, Gary Katz, Mike Guretin, Rick Arnold...know them to say hey to and they all ARE working tradespeople...I know Andy Engel pretty well, better than I know any of the rest of those mentioned, but he's an editor, has been for many years.
I've met far more real carpenters at Fests and here at Breaktime. If I tried to name them I'd leave someone out and I don't want to do that. Folks who actually BUILD stuff, instead of writing about it, those are the folks who are famous in my house. Huck said it first. I just agreed with him.