Does anyone have a good overview Internet site or reference for planning an integrated electrical, A/V, security, and computer/data backbone for a remodel?
It’s absolutely bewildering how confusing the stuff is that’s out there.
For example: The Lutron Space system, which is infrared (and therefore, one assumes, line-of-sight only)…how does that stack up against X10 wireless technology as a home system integration tool?
Has there been a Fine Home Building article in the past two years that perhaps I just missed somehow? Oh please, let there have been an article I missed…at least, then I’d have a starting place.
NotaClue
Edited 2/21/2005 1:53 am ET by NotaClue
Replies
bump
Edited 2/21/2005 10:50 am ET by Rich Beckman
I went back through the FHB archives and found a piece from 2002, but am hoping that people can point me at other choices too, since that piece advocates for the hardwired install (versus wireless).
NotAClue
NC,
The only "best bet" is easily snaked (meaning lay some kind of a wire in there first) and assessable empty conduit. Nobody can predict the future, but boy did Wi Fi make all those people who spent the money on Cat-5 everywhere in their new homes look dumb.
Jon
Edited 2/21/2005 1:50 pm ET by WorkshopJon
Hmmmm.
Wi Fi is great, but isn't is about 100X slower than a Cat 5E cable (this is a real question, not a mocking one; I really don't know, I'm guessing).
NotAClue
I thought about the whole house wiring concept. "Structured wiring" I believe. I determined that your lighting and plugs should be as they always are. Fancy is asking for trouble. Maybe some scene dimmers and stuff, but most people just want to flip a switch and have a light come on. It works in houses both big and small, expensive and not.
However, data is differenent story. I wouldn't abandon your Cat5e or Cat6 just yet. It has two things going for it: speed and security.
Speed: My WiFi runs about 1MBit/sec and my wired network runs at about 100 MBit/sec. If you move the laptop to the other end of the house, the WiFi drops down quite a bit, probably 200KBit/sec or so (haven't done a real test). But if I plug that laptop in, I get the full 100MBit/sec. Either speed is fine for doing email and BT, but any streaming video etc, forget it. WiFi will be a while before it can keep up.
Security: Get a laptop with a WiFi card and drive through your neighborhood. See how many unsecured wireless networks you have setup. Heck, my neighbor fired one about a month ago and my laptop AUTOMATICALLY logged into his network. Sheesh, c'mon folks. I've got mine setup somewhat securely, but anybody who wants in can still get it. A wired network has the highest possible security: physical security. No access, no problem. Of course you'll probably be plugged into the internet which blows the whole physical security thing, but there are well known ways to secure and internet connected home network. Wireless puts a pretty big hole in your network.
Having said all that, I put in lots of conduit in my house. I haven't even pulled any wires into it yet, but I would guess I will put a couple of cat5 and couple of RG6 at each location (probably as needed). In my opinion the future is not wireless. It will have a place, but won't do it all. The future is on demand TV and movies and you'll probably need RG6 for that, if not something bigger or faster. Something that isn't available today. Make sure you have accessible conduit to a box in every room where you think you might want this kind of feature. I have one just about every room, including bathroom (watching tv in the whirlpool tub). Also remember the world is going to flat panel TVs so in just a few years you will be able to hang a small TV just about anywhere and not have it taking up a bunch of room.
MERC.
An old roomate and I lived in a 3000 sq ft brand new two story home. He could walk or work his wireless laptop almost every room in the house.
I live in a 40's home now 1180 sq feet, I can't use my wireless laptop more than one room away. Too much interference.
When we remodel we're going to HAVE to wire the house. I believe all new home construction (in our parts) are also still wiring the whole house.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Have you seen my baseball?"
54490.7 in reply to 54490.6
An old roomate and I lived in a 3000 sq ft brand new two story home. He could walk or work his wireless laptop almost every room in the house.
I live in a 40's home now 1180 sq feet, I can't use my wireless laptop more than one room away. Too much interference."
Sailfish,
My wife has NO PROBLEMS using her laptop to access our system from well over 400 feet away, and our house is enclosed with foil faced insulation!!! But we do live in the country.
Jon
Hello all. I normally hang out in knots, but happen to see this post and maybe I can help with the networking question. I manage a computer department and have wired several manufacturing facilities. I also have experience with wireless. For wiring (these are generalities don't go slamming me with eia/tia standards) Keep individual runs (non repeater) to 90 meters allowing for 10 meters from drop end to receiving device. Cat5 should carry most home needs (in today's world) 100 meg is a lot of bandwidth (today). Gig is new but coming on fast. I would not install any copper that will not handle gig. Now keep in mind that gig rated copper improperly punched down to connector blocks and wall jacks will kill throughput. With entertainment going the way it is, it will be a very short time before a server in a house will be sending music and video to terminals (it's already here). These applications are bandwidth hogs. Now on to outside the house, or the internet. More and more content is coming from the outside. Currently with cable modem download speed at between 2-megs (cable) on the download side, and less with the upload stream. The 100 meg standard currently will cut the mustard. You are really limited by the switching equipment in the house i.e. 10/100 or 100/1000.
Now for the topic of wireless. The two main flavors of wireless (currently) Is 802.11b (11m) and 802.11g (54m). There is a 100m standard, but it is not widely in use yet (but coming). A lot of devices are going wireless like printers and even movie projectors. Actual throughput is impacted by signal strength. The father away from the access point and the type of material in the walls, or local EMI will impact the signal strength. It is convenient and low cost, but there is a huge down side to wireless. The bad side is security. Wireless networks are a huge security threat. Without proper encryption and strong security measures you can be hacked easily. Most people go and buy a wireless access point and card for the computer and hook it up and think it's wonderful, until they have problems with people driving through the neighborhood and breaking in to their system. Identity theft is a real mother to get straightened out. Don't feel bad, no matter what the latest is, it will be old in less than one year, if it lasts that long. Sorry for the long winded response.
http://www.linksys.com/edu/wirelessstandards.asp
Edited 2/22/2005 7:54 pm ET by bones
http://www.smarthome.com
I would wonder about wireless. All my friends in New York city have dropped there internet service. They just poach there neighbors..
<< I would not install any copper that will not handle gig.>>It takes at least Cat5e to handle gigabyte speeds, and it is at the top end. If you move up to Cat6 the worst that happens is you have to pay a little more, particularly for the connectors. If you are wiring a hospital wing, maybe the extra cost matters. But in a house? I doubt it.Particularly with video and baby monitors and security cameras, I figure the bandwidth is worth it INSIDE of the house. None of this makes BT (or anything else on the web) load any faster though.
"Particularly with video and baby monitors and security cameras, I figure the bandwidth is worth it INSIDE of the house. None of this makes BT (or anything else on the web) load any faster though."
Most of the new content will be (IMHO) from entertainments systems fed via networking. For example entertainment servers pushing video and voice over tcpip. It's amazing, that no matter how much bandwidth you provide, it gets gobbled up and more is demanded. Wireless will be the next big push. Whatch out when gig over wireless takes off.
Wi Fi is great, but isn't is about 100X slower than a Cat 5E cable"
It may be, quite frankly I don't know.
I have a 5.5 meg cable connection, but most sites only download at 400K, so what good is it? I have four computers on a wireless network in my home, all work quite well. Never noticed speed issues. Now I'm not moving 100Gig files from my laptop to my base, but how many people do?
A prior poster mentioned security issues, well if you take proper precautions, and enable the correct security settings, you'll be fine. Too many people don't bother, and leave their set-up wide open
I assume you are hooked up to the internet, since you are here, well that's a way in too, especially if you don't have multiple firewalls.
Seriously, other than creating chases of some sort (tubes, baseboards whatever) don't try to plan too far ahead.
Jon
I just re-wired my home, and I spent a fair amount of time researching what to put in. Here is what I concluded, but realize that if I really had a crystal ball, I would be rich already.1. The industry 'standard' structured wire bundle is two each of RG6, Cat5e, and fiber optic.
2. I personally don't think fiber in the house is going anywhere.
3. I have wireless also, but that is no substitute for wired.
4. More and more things work on twisted pair wiring.Personally, I put in 2 RG6 and 2 to 4 Cat6 connections in each room, running the whole bundle to a 'telcomm convergence box'. Wired will always be better than wireless, more secure, more flexible and there isn't any interference.The reason to put 2 RG6 (coax cable) is if you want any form of monitoring system to run over the cable, often it has to be two connections.The reason I choose Cat6 over Cat5e is that I run a Gigabite network inside the house, and we work with very large files.The reason I ran a bunch of connections is that you never know how many you will need. There are now speaker systems, video survallance systems, alarm systems, intercom systems, and who knows what else that will run over twisted pair wiring. Already I have computers, print server, entertainment center, and phones connected. I'm using about 10 ports on my hubs and I'm not done yet, nor do I feel dumb.The most important quality concern is the connections. For RG6 be sure to use good quality crimp on connectors, and at least quad shield wire. You might want to check with your local cable company(ies) to see what they recommend. You might want to do the same with the phone company.DO NOT just accept what your installer wants to put in when they say "We've been doing it this way for years and there hasn't been any problems". They may or may not know if there are problems. The new digital broadcast signals are very sensitive to the quality of connections. The system could work, but not work well, and the last place most people look when they have a bad picture on their TV is at the cable connectors.One thing to watch out for if you are planning on using a cable modem is that they are often not compatible with signal enhancers or signal boosters. So you may need a tap to split the incoming cable before attaching it to a signal booster.And if I were doing it again, I would insist on different color connectors at each box to make it easier to keep track of. But be sure each cable is labeled with floor, room, and location.Good luck!
Notaclue
You really are asking for the moon.
In essence you ask what will the future bring, sreiously if you find out let me know will you? The investment posibilities are endless.
Do a decent job of the basics and that's all that can be done.; Some advocate running tubes from room to room where future wiress can be placed. Now that's really asking for it. you not only want to know what can be done but also where somebody will place the furniture in the future.
What are you really trying to protect? Some sheetrock? pretend for a moment that you need to add several circuits to a romm to use it as you'd really like. Worst case possible you remove 20 or 30 bucks worth of sheetrock and spend an afternoon retapping and mudding a room.; big deal! Now figure the cost of putting every possible wiring combination into the house.. whereever it might be called for....
You're not exactly asking for the moon and the stars, but you are looking a bit for that ultimate "killer ap" where one may not exist.
You say in "remo," but not how much--gutting all of the walls to bare studs makes for a different approach than room-by-room gutting or preserve-as-much-as-possible remodeling. Each warrants a different approach.
The "design" of the rooms matters, too. One of the biggest structured cable headaches is placement of the "end use" outlet. It's pretty rare in that empty-of-furniture on the plan room labeled "bedroom" that the computer, the tv, the audio, and the phone will all be in the same place on the wall (the cables snaking around are so stylish).
How the end users will use the services makes a difference, too. A kid's bedroom is a nice place for a plain slider-switch dimmer for the overhead light. But a "plain" switch works just as well. A cathedraled ceiling, exposed timber frame, room with ceiling fans "works" much better with the remote fan controls.
I wish there was one formula, I could "sell" that easier. The customers would be happier, too, they could make apples to apples comparisions (not fruit salad versus pasta salad versus cole slaw . . . )
Give us a bit more info, maybe we can give more help. Narrowing the question down to just lighting or just a/v or just computer/data might help a tad too.
Install plenty of conduit, plus whatever you need NOW, and a LITTLE extra. Some sort of "super Cat5" (Cat5e/Cat6/whatever) for all phone and computer needs. At least one CatX run to each room larger than a broom closet (and maybe the broom closet, in case you ever put a server there), and keep in mind it's generally almost as cheap to install two cables vs just one.
(Don't forget to double-up the conduit where needed, since you can't run both 120V power and signal lines in the same pipe.)
You can't very well guess whether the Next Big Thing will be fiber or telepathic communications or what, so plan the system to be changed.
Unfortunately, AFAIK X10 is the only "accessible" remote power control scheme currently available. It's pretty long in the tooth. Better to use regular power wiring technology for now (except for perhaps a few special cases) and try to leave a little slack (figuratively and literally) for a change later.
Think back a century. Homes built at the turn of the century were often wireless as they became electrified eletricians worked out ways to run wire. The old knob and tube method they used at first was replaced with newer and more modern systems but I doubt anybody "prewired" a house back then....
Thinking ahead may have some benefits but it also comes with costs. If you select a method there is a very good chance another method will quickly become the standard.
My advice? Heck I'd go with Cat6 and call it quits.. If another system becomes the standard you'll have to rewire anyway..