how do you properly paint interior and exterior? I know this is basic, but if i’m doing a costomer’s house I want it to be done the best i can. one thing that I saw being done in georiga was a painter putting caulk around the joint of the crown moulding (painted) and ceiling. what. I’ve never seen this done before.
Ductape can fix EVERYTHING!!!
From building boxes and fitting face frames to installing doors and drawers, these techniques could be used for lots of cabinet projects.
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The key to a better than average paint job is the prep, and than after that more prep. Sanding with ascending grits of sand paper(120 on bare wood ,than prime than sand 150 grit , prime than sand with 220 . Than go two coats of paint , with an additive aka penetrol for oil's , floetrol for latex. Caulking is necessary for the wood movement and also when the job is properly caulk and painted will give a organic flow to the work. It is technic in itself, practice , practice, practice . I like Big Stretch i like the flow and it name sake qualities. Finding a top quality paint is the most important indregrient(sp) i stick to Benjamin Moore , Sherwin Williams there are others also. Brushes another important issue , Purdy arent cheap but worth it , learn good proper care and maintenance, buy a brush comb and a spinner (it spins it and get alot of the cleaner out of the bristles ) but dont completely dry it out , a little damp wrap it foil and put in the freezer it keeps maintains it form and will translate to the paint to wall performance. The same can be done for rollers, these are some basics. i'm going to a disclaimer here i'm not a painter by trade, i'm a carpenter but these technique's are a jumping off point for you you to dabble in your next project. i'm not a fan of painting when done properly ,a good painter is worth his weight in silver. He can make or break a job in the end. My 2 ¢...........
Edited 2/10/2008 5:37 am ET by alias
Hey Mongo,
Yer needed here !!
;o)
Yeah, it may be cold, but at least it's a wet cold !
Dang buddy, you have one helluva memory!I saw the title and a shiver went up my spine. But I clicked on it anyway.
ROFLMAOAwww, but yer too late.It takes a whole weekend to teach someone everything they will ever need to know about painting, doesn't it ?Oh hey, that's alright. I'll just give him your phone number and he can call you for tutelage...;o)
Yeah, it may be cold, but at least it's a wet cold !
Actually we need IRMEC (sp?) and a dog to give the painting lessons..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Actually, I prefer my 'original' humorous stories to be honestly original. And not just copied from somewhere else, pasted here, and then claimed to be one's own original story.Mongo passed along a true experience about someone who read some of his stuff here, and then stalked him in email and on the phone, wanting him to teach them everything they needed to know about painting. And it had to be FAST !!IMERC copied the blue paint dog story from somewhere else, pasted it here, and claimed it was his own original true story.Just like the tazer story.Sorry, but I prefer the truth, (if it is going to be claimed as the truth), even if it is a bit less colorful...
Yeah, it may be cold, but at least it's a wet cold !
be careful with floetrol, it can cause adhesion problems. It tends to make the paint
elastic. Don't overtape or you will end up scraping dried paint off. Paint will bleed thru tape. Don't be tempted to use latex on the trim, unless you spray. They have not yet developed a latex that levels out like oils do. Customers are always happy with the look of oil. Use the most expensive brushes and roller covers. A roller cover that sheds will make you look bad. Remeber every surface has to be clean and smooth. Both Benjamin Moore and Sherwin-Williams have good oil paints. I prefer the Benjamin Moore product line. Do NOT use B.M. Impervex or B.M. latex Satin Impervo, these paints will leave heavy brush marks.
Don't be tempted to use latex on the trim, unless you spray. They have not yet developed a latex that levels out like oils do.
I agree that oil levels better than latex, but there are many circumstances where the difference is not significant enough to warrant the extra trouble of using oil.
Most of the trim I paint is with latex. With a little experience, a good brush and good paint, I get a finish that exceeds my customer's expectations.
Every inch of trim in this place was done in Porter oil 20 years ago...
and it sucks for the brush marks.Liberty = Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
American Heritage Dictionary
Impervex is not my friend, either. Not only does it leave heavy brush marks, but coverage is terrible. And it's not just ####, it's expensive ####.
C r a p is censored here? I have a dirtier mouth than I thought...
what are your paint tool boxes like?
this is mine
Ductape can fix EVERYTHING!!!
Here's mine. It's a bucket boss (knockoff) filled with just about all the tools and sundries that I need to paint.
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I had to do some painting recently at a house with difficult access. There was a light coating of ice on the roads and I was afraid the van would get stuck so I took the family minivan. Since I was just painting, I didn't need the full complement of tools that I normally carry in the van, but I didn't want to forget anything so I took inventory of the things that I normally need to paint.
It turns out to be a healthy list and there's quite a few things that I don't use every time, but it's what I need to be prepared. I'll keep it handy in case a similar situation comes up again and I've included it here in case anyone else might find it handy too.
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Paint bucket
Miscellaneous
paint bucket<!----><!---->
small drop cloths
finish nails
Miscellaneous
cleaning products (TSP)
pliers
brushes
edge guides
nailset
cut buckets and liners
roller frame handles
finish nails
roller kits (tray, liner, frame, cover)
hammer
tape measure
extension pole
stirring sticks
utility knife
sheets/plastic/drop cloths
scrapers
paper/pencils
spackle/caulk
taping knives/putty knife
allen wrenches
step stool/ladder(s)
5-in-1 tool
6-in-1 screwdriver
rags
lightweight spackle
scissors
furniture glides
can opener
mini screwdriver
floor mat or booties
dimpler
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light
plastic bags/twist ties
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radio
rubber bands
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paint and primer
permanent markers
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bucket
scrub brush
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artist brushes
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painters masking tape
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sandpaper
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Edit: Oh, I forgot to add, if there's any questions about why something is in that list, please ask. I'll be happy to share how I use it. The radio should be obvious, the dimpler (which is just a punch with a rounded tip) is used to slightly recess high spots (like the ones created when a picture hook is removed) so they can be spackled smooth.<!----><!---->
Edited 2/16/2008 8:22 am ET by DonCanDo
Good list.I see sandpaper, but not sanding sponges (I especially like the Norton 3X thin sponges, they're like the old 3M abrasive pads), or sanding screens.
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Phill Giles<!----><!---->
The Unionville Woodwright<!----><!---->
Yup, I like those sanding sponges too and I keep them on hand, but I didn't list them separately. Similarly, I keep drywall sanding screens on hand.
Slight digression ahead...
Today, I needed a pipe wrench (which I keep in my van) to repair a broken pipe behind a toilet. The pipe (a brass nipple) broke when I pulled the tank to remove wallpaper behind it.
I would not have really expected to need a pipe wrench for a painting job and I'm not about to add it to my list of "painting essentials", but it's in the van with about 100 other things that I shouldn't need, but might.
I know what you mean: Lee Valley had a pair of aluminium pipe-wrenches on promotion, and I was very tempted - I carry 8", and 16" water-pump pliers too.-->--> -->
Phill Giles-->-->
The Unionville Woodwright-->-->
Edited 2/21/2008 10:17 am ET by PhillGiles
Painting by hand makes me think of yoga. It is all about control of body position, relaxation, and breathing.
I find painting with a brush one of the most relaxing and satisfying things I can do.
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"A stripe is just as real as a goddamn flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
I would add just ONE more thing to that list.
A painter.
Gawd, I hate it.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Any of you's guys have any luck with those new teflon coated trays?
I'm always glad to hear people say they hate painting. As for me, I've come full circle. When I used to paint my own house, I would set aside enough time that I could "get into it". Sort of a Zen thing like Gene Davis said.
Then, I started painting professionally. Painting was my first steps to becoming a handyman. I found myself not liking it as much as I thought. So many tools needed just for painting, so much prep, so much to learn... the more I painted, the more I realized how little I knew.
Eventually, it started to become routine. I got pretty good at estimating. I got my tools organized and there's even a pretty typical routine to the prep work. I even look forward to cutting in, which I do well, because I feel like that's the main thing that the customer is going to see that makes or breaks the job.
I'm back to enjoying painting. Even though sometimes I feel like painting is like a black hole. It just consumes time voraciously. I always feel like the end of the day comes too soon. But that's much better than the other way around which is how it used to be when I had a corporate job.
I can see the Zen thing when doing it on my house, but I am real finicky, and for someone else, they'd pop a vein at my slow speed.
Lucky for me, the majority of my finishing is clear spray..that I love..and painted work leaves my shop primed only usually..and thats the way I like it.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
That's a good-looking toolkit, Don. If you're a painting pro, we're looking for guys like you who might be interested in writing articles on painting for the magazine. If you're game, get back to me by email ([email protected]).
Thanks, I'll get back to you a little later on with some background information about me. Right now, I've got to get back to prep work before painting... that is, if you can call taking down damaged plaster and replacing it with drywall "prep work"
Great Dan, I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Let me extend my sympathies about the drywall work. Tim
What Alias said. It's all in the prep. About 80% or more is prep.
Also, I'm a big fan of primer. It's cheaper than paint, and makes the job apply and stay on much better. Tint the primer if the final coat will be a big contrast. Trying to go over a stark white primer with a cranberry color will take about 4 coats, even with good paint. Tint the primer 1/2-3/4 of the final coat tint. Even tinting it brownish or greyish will help, depending on the final color family.
Dirty or glossy surface should be cleaned/deglossed with TSP. Wear rubber gloves.
Prep, prep, and more prep. Good brushes, good roller covers, and good paint.
Pete Duffy, Handyman
"Clean with TSP"
Is TSP still available? I can't find it here in Se WI.
Is "TSP Subsitute" what you are refering to?
Zissneroil primer( and other paints) specify NO TSP
Why not any ideas?
No idea why not.But Lowes still has TSP.Maybe I should stock up...
When it rains, it snows.
We can still get TSP here (New Jersey). I don't know why they would recommend against TSP, but I do recall reading on a bottle of TSP substitute (whatever that is) that it was supposed to be better than TSP because it didn't leave a film. That's probably just marketing and a quick wipe with clean water should remove any residue anyway.
In practice, I've used a wide variety of cleaners - hand soap, dishwashing detergent, laundry soap, simple green and sometimes just plain water. 99% of the time, it doesn't seem to make a big difference.
How to properly paint? Books have been written on this subject. In fact, when I started painting professionally, I bought several books. It's not like I had never painted before, but I wanted to be sure I wasn't missing something obvious.
I can't remember all the things that I picked up, but I do know that I didn't always caulk joints (like where molding meets wall), but I do now.
Here's a few "rules" off the top of my head. Maybe they're obvious or maybe not. Maybe they can just be fodder for further discussion.
Don't paint out of the can
Don't use paint as if it were caulk
Remove things that don't get painted (light fixtures, outlet covers, etc.)
Don't paint hardware unless they've already been painted (hinges, grills, etc)
Plan ahead for how many coats of paint will be needed
Prime and/or sand glossy surfaces prior to painting
Use good quality tools and keep them in good shape
If you can't cut a straight line with a brush, use masking tape
Avoid using masking tape unless absolutely necessary
Cover everything that might get splattered
Roller as close to adjacent surfaces to have a consistent texture
what don said...
<<<<
Don't paint out of the canDon't use paint as if it were caulkRemove things that don't get painted (light fixtures, outlet covers, etc.)Don't paint hardware unless they've already been painted (hinges, grills, etc)Plan ahead for how many coats of paint will be neededPrime and/or sand glossy surfaces prior to paintingUse good quality tools and keep them in good shapeIf you can't cut a straight line with a brush, use masking tapeAvoid using masking tape unless absolutely necessaryCover everything that might get splatteredRoller as close to adjacent surfaces to have a consistent texture>>>
couple other things is sequence:
set the nails
prime everything
caulk all unpaintable surfaces ( "don't use paint as if it were caulk" .. see above )
all unpaintable surfaces are anyplace two dissimilar surfaces meet, like crown against the ceiling, casing against the wall, casing against the sill, extension jambs against the window jambs, casing to the jambs
don't confuse stain grade work with paint grade work.. they have different rules
one color has to lap onto the other , and the darker one is cut in... you don't paint "up" to a line.. one color has to paint over the line.. the last has to cut to the line
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I don't prime everything. I will prime if the surface is new (eg. drywall, wood), porous, glossy or I'm making a big color change. IMHO, For most walls with paint in good condition, primer is not needed.
i'm with you.. i was thinking of new work
on existing work we'll only spot prime...
more attention to spackle, sanding & cleaning than primingMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I prime everything. Gives you an even colour and something to sand to get it smoother.
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Phill Giles<!----><!---->
The Unionville Woodwright<!----><!---->
tinted primer?
if your painting latax exteriour.....1 one thing ....TEMP do not let it freeze 24 hours after applying....DEW point ...and Humidity...ive have latex here in oregon take weeks to dry...what a pain
sorry my macs having a hard time compressing photos and getting them to work on these websights
FYI...if you are using iPhoto, export your pics with a much smaller width number, while retaining the aspect ratio. Export to a file on your desktop. it will be a much smaller file and will work fine when uploading to Breaktime; just upload from the file. good luck."The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
HD have a primer tint program, which I ignore. I use white enamel primer under light colours, grey under reds. NOTE, you cannot, IMHO, paint one-coat with most satin (and I only do satin) colours no matter what colour the primer is: in my limited experience, you cannot do red in two coats without the grey primer (HD will tell you to use red primer: works for flat sheens, IMHO, looks awful under red satin, use light grey)
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Phill Giles<!----><!---->
The Unionville Woodwright<!----><!---->
For painting reds (interior) the gripper gray tinted primer from HD works great. I actually have them add add black tint to it to make it darker. Without the dark primer it's very difficult to to get reds to cover, even with 2 coats.I painted my Family Room a reddish color after using the dark primer. I was going to do 2 coats, but it covered so well in one coat I didn't have to.
From my experience, the paint doesn't cover any better with the gray primer; it's just that when you don't cover gray, it's not nearly as noticeable as not covering white. While you may not "need" that second coat, it will often make a difference to the final quality and appearance of the job.BTW, I've been trying cutting in with two coats and letting it dry (ie. dry enough for re-coat) before putting the roller coats on. To my eyes, as long as you feather the dry edge of the cut-in of course, the finish is as good as trying to maintain a wet edge. Truth be known, some of my worst walls came from trying to roll over a wet edge that had dried just a little two much. The painters I work with tell that once apon a time, when they used oil, they could use a retarder and then work fast enough to easily maintain that wet edge; but, in today's latex world, it had become a problem. Their current solution was to use two men: one to roll and one to cut just ahead of him.
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The Unionville Woodwright<!----><!---->
Just a sidebar, I recently used Behr Kitchen&Bath satin, tinted Key Lime, over white enamel primer in a bedroom - great depth ! Lowered the lumins of light needed too.
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The Unionville Woodwright<!----><!---->
one color has to lap onto the other , and the darker one is cut in... you don't paint "up" to a line.. one color has to paint over the line.. the last has to cut to the line
Good point. I paint the trim first. It's much easier to cut a straight line on the wall against the trim than the other way around. I also do ceilings before walls for the same reason.
Even more important info........
Alias and others had good advice. One thing I would add is that especially on interiors, cut in one wall and paint that wall while the cut in paint is still wet. I discovered this relatively late in my career and it makes a big difference--the body paint blends without that edge you get when you do all the cut in first and it dries before you can get the rest of the painting done.
It also seems to work better for me (your mileage may vary) to pull and thick edge, when cutting in, toward the part I will be rolling next--sort of feather it with the brush. Then there isn't as much of a difference in texture and appearance between where you brushed and where you rolled.
When I am cutting in after I run the brush I have a small roller. It is about 3 or 4" ling and uses a cloth roller about 1" in dia.I run that around the trim and around switches and receptacles. Can even run it in the 1-2+ between a switch and door casing by rolling sideways.It coves a uniformed stipple pattern just like the big rollers. .
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I agree with Bill. Whenever possible, I back roll anything I brush. I use one of the paint handlers that holds a 4" roller and a brush. The design could still be improved upon, like a longer area to roll out the roller.I've heard of another model that is a liner, slides into a paint pail. That would be good.
I don't thnk anyone has mentioned proper prep yet, so I won't.
But cereally, The key to making proper preparation work for painting is all in the head. You gotta have the right mindset. You need to look at preparation as the single most important part of impressing your client. Enjoy it. Obsess over it. Repeat it. Get actual enjoyment out of getting everything ready. And then when its all done, go over it again. Twice.
But while painting (buy the best paint you can get, no sense in wasting all of that effort preparing), focus upon your motions. Keep a pattern going in your moves. And keep a wet edge. If using a roller, go over the work repeatedly in different directions, the last roll, in the same direction. Use an extension pole so you can get good strokes in your pattern. Or get scaffolding. A Baker II rack is ideal. Canvas paint clothes are best.
When taping, use scotch frosted transparent tape first. Use it to create the sharp line needed against woodwork and such. You can see where it hasn't adhered cause it's not clear. Masking tape won't do that. Then on top of the scotch tape, put your wasking tape. Blue tape is barely worth the extra money.
Clean up immediately. Wash your brushes immediately. And your trays. Personally I don't wash rollers, but some do.
And then go pull your tape. Clean up immediately any overages, spills, errors.
Inspect every inch of trim. Be sure it's what you would want if you were having it done. No wavey lines are allowed. Only perfection.
Replace all switchplates with the screw line running vertically.
I see there's a new interior paint report in Consumers Reports. They're now fawning over this Kilz line sold at Walmart! Specifically, the Casual Color Satin. Rated over the new Ben Moore Aura stuff!
And tint your primer 1/4 formula. Just tell your paint man that.
I see there's a new interior paint report in Consumers Reports. They're now fawning over this Kilz line sold at Walmart! Specifically, the Casual Color Satin. Rated over the new Ben Moore Aura stuff!
I've got to check this stuff out. I've used the Aura paints and I was VERY impressed with its ability to cover, but Kilz is claiming that you can paint black or even a dark red over any other color with one coat. That would be quite an accomplishment. Aura retails for $55/gallon. How much is this Kilz?
Don, I might add "when brushing on, always paint from unpainted area to painted area."
As in, always put your brush down where you haven't applied paint yet, and brush toward and into the wet paint.
Also, "when using high-quality acrylic paint, do not overbrush."
I had previously always used oil, but found the same method of repeatedly "smoothing out the brushstrokes" was a big mistake with the acrylic. The acrylic tends to wipe off the wall. I was probably overbrushing with oil, too, but it was a lot more forgiving.
Allen
According to CR, $19.
Imagine that!
Outa curiosity, I just looked up the Consumer Reports ratings myself. They actually break them into three categories: "low-luster," flat, and semigloss. It's only on the low-luster that Kilz wins, and not by a whole lot over Ben Moore, Valspar, and Behr, based on their score. The big diff between Kilz and the close followers seems to be the "gloss change" rating.
Kilz is $18-20/ga, according to Consumer Reports. Oh, and it has footnotes indicating that it was "flatter than labeled" in both low-luster and semigloss categories.
Thanks. It doesn't sound like Kilz exactly beat the pants off of Ben-Moore, but at $20/gal vs $55/gal it's quite an accomplishment to even be comparing them.
I see there's a new interior paint report in Consumers Reports. They're now fawning over this Kilz line sold at Walmart! Specifically, the Casual Color Satin. Rated over the new Ben Moore Aura stuff!
I've got to check this stuff out. I've used the Aura paints and I was VERY impressed with its ability to cover, but Kilz is claiming that you can paint black or even a dark red over any other color with one coat. That would be quite an accomplishment. Aura retails for $55/gallon. How much is this Kilz?
And so I finally got around to checking it out. I bought a quart of red for about $11. I painted it onto a piece of primed molding and I knew the moment that the brush touched the surface that I was NOT going to get 1 coat coverage.
The second coat is almost acceptable, but the proper job would be 3 coats. This is still better than a lot of red paints that I've heard about (but never used), but it's a very far cry from 1 coat coverage.
Even the Aura paint from Benjamin Moore has trouble with 1 coat coverage on certain surfaces (very porous, for example), but I've never heard of anyone going beyond 2 coats with it. Everything that I painted with it was pretty good with 1 coat. I painted the other end of this particular piece of molding with 1 coat of dark brown Aura. It came out perfect.
Anyway, I just wanted to report back since I found it hard to believe that a $20 paint could compete with a $55 paint. In fact, it can't.
So what were we saying about Consumer Reports and a grain of salt?
Red is a difficult color to get good coverage with due to the chemical makeup of the pigment. I would not judge a paint brand by how well their red covers.I have painted red in one coat. You need to prime with the gripper gray pigmented primer (Home Depot). Have them add some black pigment to make it even darker.
I specifically chose red because I know that it's hard to get good coverage with it. Kilz 1 coat coverage guarantee does not have any disclaimers about red.
I could return it under their guarantee, but I'm not going to because I really didn't expect it to work in the first place. I figured their 1 coat coverage guarantee was mostly marketing anyway.
In all fairness, I should have use the Aura in red (instead of dark brown), but I didn't have any on hand, but from past experience, I'm pretty sure it would have covered my test piece in 1 coat.
The point I'd like to make is not that Kilz is not a good paint. If it's anything like their primers, it's probably good stuff. Rather, my point is that if Consumer Reports rates Kilz higher than Aura, then their testing is inadequate. Unless, of course, they mean "bang for the buck", in which case it's a question of how much your time is worth. My time is worth more than an extra coat of paint.
The painters prayer:
Prep like hell,
Keep it thin,
Hold your breath,
when cutting in!
Personally, as a homeowner that would never work that hard for someone else, I subscribe to the 3:1 ratio. 3 hours prep for every 1 hour painting. Of course, sometimes that just makes me paint real fast...!
-t