So we have a house built in the mid ’70s. Its got what appears to be the original tile in the kitchen. Probably asbestos+vinyl, glued to concrete slab.
I want to put down ceramic tile, and do a proper job.
1) I’m pretty sure I need to get the old tile up. Right? Can’t pave over with leveling compound and then put down new tiles?
2) How to get the old tiles off the floor?
3) Do I need to get the old adhesive up? Will new mastic stick to it?
I know this has been asked a million times, but I couldn’t find it.
Sorry about the title – I wanted maximum exposure!
Brooks
Replies
DIY'er here, but I did the same thing in my kitchen. I got the tiles up using a scraper, shovel, cold chisel, whatever it took with extreme prejudice. It took hours upon hours, but I figured it was worth it, considering the expense of tile, and how horrible it would be if the tile installation failed.
The glue that was used was some sort of black tarlike substance. Don't remember the name of the product I used, but it was some liquid that I painted over the adhesive residue. Someone will be along shortly with the name, I suspect.
Tiled with a latex modified thinset, all went well. Tile looks good, solid, no cracks.
It's almost always worth the extra time to do it right.
Marine Engineer
I believe the term is "cut-back" for the black crap. Have heard of success roughing up the vinyl and using modified thinset. I wonder if thinsetting the thin Hardie backer down would give more chance of success. They do have a "membrane" product that rolls or brushes on that might be a consideration. If the original stuff is really stuck down he may luck out.
Like you said there is not a lot of suitable replacements for doing it right.
There are several guys here who do a lot of tile and they, not I, are the ones to listen to. I offer my comments more in the frame of questions rather than advice.
Bob
The title served it's purpose and I can't answer on how to remove the tiles safely if you have asbestos.
They will need to be removed in order to set the new tile, I also noticed you mentioned mastic, you should not use mastic for floor tile but rather a modified thinset.
Someone else will be along shortly to answer the removal question.
Don't create asbestos dust.
blue
Our Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want 50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.
You should have that stuff tested, either it does or it doesn't. While you are at it, have your wall mud checked too. I did have some asbestos tile removed (and will have more removed in the future), while they were there I had them remove some regular linolium that I was having a bear of a time with. An abatement company removed a bunch of stuff for their minimum daily fee ($1200 in my case). Money well spent.
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Did you see the recent episode of TOH where they had the preview of next weeks (at least here in the Hills) with the "licensed Asbestos Abatement" contractor taking out the kitchen flooring? Two guys suited up, one with a circ saw (garden variety) and the other chasing along behind with a vac hose, throwing stuff all over.
For what I am sure these guys charge I would expect something like the hooded Makita metal circ saw with a HEPA vac hooked up.
Was the room sealed?
blueOur Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want 50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.
It was just the preview, it probably was sealed but why not grab it as it is cut rather than having to chase it. It is probably to add to the mystique to justify all the decontamination, etc so therefore our price is justified. I would still use one with more dust collection.
So you currently have vinyl tile? Or is it "linoleum" (sheet vinyl). If the latter, some here have claimed that you can put ceramic tile over it with satisfactory results. The vinyl even serves as a "membrane" to keep cracks in the concrete from telegraphing through to the ceramic.
Tiles, for sure...Brooks
If they're well-adhered, it MIGHT work to put the membrane over them. The added thickness of the tile is minimal, so that shouldn't be a major issue.But my experience with ceramic floor tile has been limited, and haven't done any for maybe 12 years. Don't know all the new stuff very well.
Seven blunders of the world that lead to violence: wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, worship without sacrifice, politics without principle. --Mahatma Gandhi
Dan, I wouldn't hesitate to do a mud base over tiles, then tile.
If it is asbestos, future disclosures should warn other about drilling holes through the floor.
blueOur Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want 50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.
how would you deal with the height difference if you did a full mud base?
I've got some transition areas from a full mud base and tile to carpet. I used a wood wedge filler to blend the transition for about 2'.
I've done the transitions to hardwood with custom transition moldings. It acutally looks pretty good and adds something to the transition area.
blueOur Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want 50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.
If the tiles are 9" square, it's about 100% that they are asbestos. And 12" tiles are almost certainly not asbestos. But the mastic could be hot.
Mapei for sure, and Custom possibly, has a product they advertise as being suitable for going over old ceramic or vinyl. Search the website. If the tiles are very well stuck, there's no reason to pull them up. If you are concerned about them lifting, you could do an overlay with 1/4" hardieboard screwed over a thinset spread.
I can't copy the data sheet, but go to the mapei web page and find the Ultraflex 2, then open the data sheet. It says it is suitable for use over existing ceramic tile and vinyl.
Professional-Grade, Polymer-Modified Mortar
Ultraflex 2 is a professional-grade, single-component, high-performance, polymer-modified thin-set mortar for interior and exterior installations of dimensional stone, ceramic, porcelain and quarry tile. This mortar has a high content of a unique dry polymer, resulting in excellent adhesion to the substrate and tile. Ultraflex 2 can be used for most interior and exterior residential floor and wall tile applications. In commercial applications, use on interior floor and wall installations and exterior floors. For exterior commercial wall applications, we recommend using either the Kerabond/Keralastic™ or Granirapid¯ systems. Ultraflex 2 meets or exceeds ANSI A118.4 and ANSI A118.11 requirements when mixed with water.
French
Spanish
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Edited 10/25/2006 8:01 pm ET by FastEddie
But the mastic could be hot.
Any known method for removing hot (asbestos) mastic from hardwood- and resurfacing the hardwood?
blueOur Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want 50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.
check out http://www.franmar.com they make an asbestos mastic remover that is a gel.
Thanks Exfitter for that excellent referral. The products offered seem to be exactly what I was looking for!
Have you used any of their products?
blueOur Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want 50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.
Haven't used their product myself, I ran across the product a a renovation show in Chicago last year and was pretty impressed with the display. There was a poster here that used their stuff to stip his hardwood floor but i couldn't find the thread this morning.
Thanks for searching for that thread. Maybe someone will show up....
blueOur Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want 50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.
If screwing down would need to use Tapcons or equiv since he is on slab. Probably would not take too many with thinset, just a little insurance, the old belt and suspenders approach.
I did this to my kitchen 12 years ago. Most all of the old tiles popped right off once I got under them with a chisel.
Used thinset to put down the new 12" ceramic tiles. No problems ever.
I would be hesitant about putting thinset over the old tile. Not much for the thinset to adhere to.
Mark
I did some exploratory tugging on an out-of-the-way tile last night. It appears that it would just pop off if I was careful. SO it sounds like your situation.You put thinset down on top of the existing slab+adhesive? It was able to stick to the slab & adhesive? I assume I'll wet-wipe dust, etc., up and allow to dry before thinset...Which thinset did you use?Thanks!Brooks
I used a long-handled floor scraper to remove glued down sheet vinyl from a slab.
http://www.installertools.com/cgi-bin/INTstore.pl?user_action=detail&catalogno=05-375
Suggest trying heat if the tiles are self stick...heat gun, if you have one or lay a thin rag over the tile & use an old clothes iron.