Hey there folks,
I’ve got about six prehung doors to install in a 1900 farmhouse where nothing is exactly straight. I’ve followed the usual guidelines for hanging the doors (I’m halfway at 3), made sure the hinge and top jambs are plumb, secured and shimmed the hinge side, fixed the latch side–all three jambs level…
But as soon as I take out the lockset plug and check the door swing, the door drops anywhere from a quarter to a half inch and I’ve got a door that wont latch.
On one door I ended up trimming the base of the latch side jamb that amount to bring the latch down to where the lockset swung (and pulling the top jamb off level in the process), on another I ended up enlarging the hole for the strike plate and moving it down a quarter inch–both of these solutions felt half-arsed, but I kept checking level and plumb and everything was clean.
Is this just gravity and slop in the hinges and lockset plug, should I shim the bottom of the hinge side jamb to compensate for the added weight of the open door? Any advice so that the next three doors can go a little more smoothly?
Thanks!
Replies
I will certainly be interested in replies...
Seems like a job for beat it to fit & use a bigger hammer...
Is the topside of your hinge side secured well?
Seems to me like it would be flexing out and causing/ allowing the door to drop......
There are a lot of good trim carp. on here though that i'm sure will have better advice
When in doubt, get a bigger hammer!
Are you securing the head jamb, before you pull the plug?
Take out the upper and middle shims on the hinge side and run a 3" screw
through the top hinge into the framing. tighten it to bring your door to where u want it. Reshim and enjoy.
Are these solid core doors?
And first off, 2nd in this case.
DO NOT do any cutting and fudging up new doors/jambs when they are not properly hung! You'll only regret it later.
Maybe hire a qualified carpenter to lead you through a couple, then finish the rest if you want the satisfaction of doing it yourself.
If solid core (the weight of sc pulls on the top hinge), you can remove one of the hinge screws (top hinge)and use another LONGER screw of the same size so it fits the hinge proper to pull that side in (by running it into the framing) and the door will rise on the latch side and level out at the head. Insert the new screw in the hole furtherst from the hinge pin. Snug it up to your "should be right" shims. Check fit and adjust as necessary.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Edited 10/5/2005 8:28 pm ET by calvin
Calvin
DO NOT do any cutting and fudging up new doors/jambs when they are not properly hung! You'll only regret it later.
I respectfully disagree.
When I'm replacing doors in an old house where some of the jambs have "moved" (racked out of square) and I dont have the option to square them up I will set the door in the opening and cut it to fit. Then I hang it. Have always had good luck doing it this way.
Doug
Doug, they're new prehungs, no?Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Well I dont know! I must not have read it that close. :)
I thought he was fitting new doors into old jambs.
Doug
I had to go back cause I really didnt see the part about prehungs..... Yea, there it is in black and white. Never mind what I said.
Edited 10/5/2005 10:46 pm ET by DougU
thanks for all of the thoughts so far...yes, they are solid core and fairly hefty, and I have already sunk three inch screws at the top of the hinge jamb. Everything looks fine (as far as all three jambs level and plumb), door even gapping around edges... But then I pull the latch plug. That's when I get the sag. I was wondering if there's too much slop in that plastic plug without the nut on the backside of the jamb to secure it, but I still cannot figure why I'd be getting this with the level giving me clean readings all around. (is there a way to keep that plug threaded onto the nut and still remove it with tight clearances around the r.o.?)I read one FHB piece saying that if there was gapping between jamb and top of door (when installed in an old house) that the culprit was likely that the latch side jamb was too long. But then I triple checked my top jamb and it was dead level.I agree with the caution not to buggar up perfectly good prehung units just to get them to fit--it goes against my hope to do a quality job. But I am also floored by the consistent pattern here, the fact that all my readings seem good, and I still keep getting the same wonky result. Are hinge and latch sag common and should be factored in to shimmining hinge side jamb, or is this something that I am unintentionally doing during the install?
I set all jambs without the door. Work on the hinge side and get it firmed up and right, Head jamb level, then hang the door for the reveal fine tune.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
It's the slop in the hinges. With the pressed hinges you get on standard prehungs I always have to raise the hinge side an eighth or two. With custom hung on quality hinges it's a different story.Rik
Edited 10/5/2005 9:59 pm ET by artacoma
ehem Yer supposed to pull the plug before you hang the door.
It'll go better
regards
Rik
First thing first--welcome aboard--nice to have you around--
Look at the physics of a door this way--With the door at 90 degrees the weight of the door is pulling on the hinges parralle with the jamb--the thick dimenesion.
As you swing the door closed the weight changes to perpandicular with the jamb--against the thin dimension.
We all know a board is way stronger on edge than flat.
this is why it is important to shim and screw the top 2 hinges--the bottom is somewhat optional cause the wieght of the door compress the hinge against the framing and just needs to be well shimmed vrs. the upper hinges which want to pull away from the framing resulting in-----
The door dropping and you bores not lineing up.
It gets way more complicated from here with legs outta plane and hinges not morticed right etc. but this at least gives you an idea where you are going.
Mike
" I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Adam Savage---Mythbusters
as soon as I take the lockset plug out...
Jamie, you are hanging the door under tension.
Remove plug. Place a level on floor. Cut or shim bottom of jambs appropriately. Shim, plumb, and fasten hinge side. (Hinge points should be shimmed slightly higher so door will not bind behind hinges when closed) You can also use 2½'' or 3'' screws to fasten the jamb, place the screws so they will be hidden by the doorstop, that way you can loosen, tighten shim material and get a decent fit before fastening permanently. Once you have the hinge side where you want it, adjust and fasten latch jamb. I like the gap around the latch and top of the door about the width of a nickle. hinge side gap depends on the hinges. Good Luck.
Yep, pull the plug first, then you'll know exactly what the door wants to do hanging solely on the hinges.
:-)
Agree with the above... get rid of the plug.
When we hang doors we pay attention to the hinge side for plumb, unless it is close to out of plumb walls that intersect, then we use a tape to follow that wall for an even reveal.
After the hinge side is taken care of it is all about reveals....the top and strike jambs need to have even reveals to the door.
What does this situation in my life ask of me?
thanks very much everyone--that seems like plenty of good stuff to go on!Jamie