Cherry veneer-core closet organizers. I quoted close to 7K, guy said too much (actually, “Holy sh!t”). One of the culprits was a non-standard sized shoe organizer that would have wasted a bit of wood. I reworked the dimensions to save 3 sheets of wood, and decided to recycle the existing rods and such. Also lowered my labor – less work now that everything is the same size (and I have the EZ Repeater). Even though I came down, I don’t think I lost any money. I have gotten a lot better about sticking to my guns on quotes, but since this seemed like a situation where I could pull it off and still win.
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Replies
I won't tell anyone.
Just next time someone asks you to refigure a bid raise it by 20% and your reputation will be restored.
It happens.
I cried at the end of Jerry Maguire if that makes you feel any better.
Speak the truth, or make your peace some other way.
shucks, I just had wet eyes a couple days ago after a movie...and tht's all I'm gonna say about that
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
The way I read it , you changed the design-scope , to be more cost effective, which is a fine responsible thing to do.
Don't ever come down on your price, and I don't think you did.
You did not come down in price.
You came up with a different product that did not cost as much.
Completly different.
Same as going in to buy a $30,000 Caddy and ending up with $10,000 Chevet.
They did not drop the price $20,000.
How much time did it take you to re-figure the job. I think you need to figure that into any equation to really evaluate whether lowering your price is worth the money.
I cam down on a price the other week with a client for some window repairs. She balked at first to the cost of the project which included repainting all the casing and interior window trim we needed to pull off to remove and repair the sashes. I looked at the estimate on my computer and saw the painting was $460 dollars. I told her I could help her out by dropping the painting out of the project's cost and she then agreed to the proposal. But making that deal to come down on price with her cost me and my company nothing. It took me only ten or twenty seconds to look at what I could do on the computer and we would still get the numbers we wanted and planned for with the sash repairs. So we still covered all our costs and made a profit on a slightly smaller project.
On the other hand the other month one my guys walked away from a stair and railing client who wanted us to do better on the price since re-figuring the job to make it work for him meant maybe two or three hours of redesign and re-figuring and doing that for "free" just to lower the price made the project not un-profitable but barely profitable for us.
But I do have a question for you. What is the EZ Repeater? A boring tool or machine maybe?
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Whoops I just realized I know exactly what an EZ repeater is. One of my guys bought one recently. I'm a Festool tool guy so I didn't recognize the EZ brand name I guess.
Still I would love to find a really good portable boring tool or machine for boring cabinet shelf holes out in the field.
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Still I would love to find a really good portable boring tool or machine for boring cabinet shelf holes out in the field
I've never used this product, but have considered buying it. List price is $68.
http://www.woodtechtooling.com/GIZMO/GIZMO.html
Speak the truth, or make your peace some other way.
That actually looks like a tool we once bought and tried. It was fine for boring 3 to 6 holes but when you had a big long run it would "walk" and sometimes the final holes would be off just a hair and shelves would rock. We ended up shelving it (get the pun) and outsourcing the hole boring to another shop but I still think there are times when doing it onsite could be worth the investment in the right tool or tooling.
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Jerrald,
What about http://tinyurl.com/fp8g4
I have no idea how well it does or does not work, I've been waiting for the right project to order it.
That looks like it might be worth looking at too.
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Wouldn't this work? Used in conjunction with Festool router (Or any router adapted to fit.)
http://www.festoolusa.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=8&prodid=491621"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
Well that does sound like just what we might need. I'm embarassed to say I had no idea Festool had that and have to wonder just how I missed it.
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They also make a 95" long version for about $200. An excellent reason to spring for the Festool router, if you haven't already got it.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
My only problem with that particular set up is, the kit is about 300 bucks, the router is about 350 bucks, and the sled is 200 that's a little better then 850 bucks after tax to drill holes.
My real problem is, from what I've been able to figure out, it only works with their small router which only accepts up to 1/4" bits, so the router would be of limited use to me outside of whole boring, which I do not or will not in the futre do enough of to justify the cost.
I just suggested to a fella over in the FWW forum that he look at the Euro-drill system. that Gizmo seems interesting, but I concur with the liklihood that it will "creep" so by the time you get done boring 3' of holes in a pantry gable, you may as well have given up expecting any accuracy.It ain't so much the pin boring template that is utilitiarian, it's the 5mm or 1/4" carbide tipped drill bits which function much like a vix bit. Eric
For the shelf pin holes, I had looked at the Rockler and Lee Valley jigs, but then decided to make one like I saw in FHB a few issues back- used a plunge router, 1/2" bushing and a spiral upcut bit.
I have the Rockler jig. Works well, but you're right - easy to build your own. The key to the Rockler working well is the registration pin that keeps the jig aligned - something that appears to be missing from some of the other jigs. Not particularly fast compared to a $$$ line borer, but for the price, if you're not doing a lot it's quite accurate & repeatabble, and a great deal at $25 (including self-centering bit).
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5876&filter=35151
Cherry veneer-core closet organizers. I quoted close to 7K, guy said too much
I had to laugh when I saw that. Just because of the regional differences in pricing. 7K for closet organizers - wow! I had a guy just ask me if I would prep and paint his house and the small detached outbuilding, inside and out, change out all the windows, change out all the doors, patch multiple holes made for new elec. outlets and light fixtures, re-sheath the kitchen and laundry room floor, and various small framing and drywall projects (labor only), for 8K! I said No, my bid at just over 10K had no cushion at all.
That's Bakersfield. In fact, I once had a guy try to tell me 4K was a reasonable estimate for a room addition! Just recently got turned down for being "Way too high" on a home office remodel bid (install new countertop with pullout keyboard tray , 60" of new upper cabinets, add some electrical outlets and cable jack) at under 2k! One thing I hate about this area - tire kickers that won't bite even when your pricing is beyond reasonable.
"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
I got tired of bottom feeding and busting my butt to make a very modest living. Too much "this guy can go for $X, how low can you go" I have found plenty of work fixing the lowballers jobs. As long as I can find (or they find me) people willing to pay for quality...The guy just had a $70K Ipe deck built; this is on a 6200sf house. BTW it's only 25 linear feet on the organizers, so whats that $225 a foot?
How do the repeaters work for you? I noticed that Dino was also recommending using them for line boring. In case you aren't familiar with the Gizmo 32 you might enjoy checking out this link. http://eurekazone.com/gallery/The-Multi-tool-system
hmj
Never ever lower a price without telling the customer that he's getting less..
In your case you had a legitimate excuse (ie, using a stand size etc..) and I hope you told the customer that. In that case you are a double hero, corrected a desing error and made it cheaper.. customers can understand that.
Wjat they can't understand is somebody just making something cheaper because they complained about the price.. They actually expect you to know your worth and charge accordingly.. I've seen some beautiful things discarded simply because, oh well, it was cheap to begin with....
Well, it's like mentioned earlier. Some folks are looking for a used Yugo while others are in the market for a new Bently. Key is to decide which you are willing to offer and which market interests you.
FrenchY:That is exactly what I did, redesigned to use less materials - fewer shoe cubbies, and recycled fixtures (which only saved ~$300 on a $5K+ closet). Labor went down due to the redesign- though increased my risk as I have little wiggle room on the wood now. Didn't get the feeling he wanted me to cut my profit, he had a price range in mind and was agreeable to the redesdign to fit it. Interestingly, the landscaper was there at the same time and when he left the owner mentioned that he was raising his rates. Said something to the effect of "when you are a millionaire, everyone expects you to buy the drinks" but he didn't play that as he was self made.
Frenchy,I had to drop a price about hours ago. A customer who contacted us in November called yesterday to say they wanted to move ahead. I printed out the Proposal, and when we sat down at their table the man of the house said "I had it in my mind that your Proposal was for $xx,xxx", but it was actually about 15% higher.I explained to them that we could look at omitting/revising some areas to decrease the cost.All ended well, I cut out some items and we have a new job, without giving away the farm.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Frenchy! Your back!
Where you been? Have you been avoiding us?
blue
Hi Blueeyedevil,
Nah, Havin' my fun at the tavern where so far I've managed to convince 64% of the nation as to Bush's job performance <G>
next time, maybe try to figure out the redesigned cost structure ahead of time. it sounds like it might work out for you, but i don't want the customer to get the impression he can boss you around or intimidate you into coming downon prices for future work.