I saw a little of today’s This Old House and they showed the new floor. The host, Kevin, said “This is the new hardwood floor, ours is fir”. Since when is fir a hardwood? Apparently, they don’t bother to see if what is said is accurate. Maybe they think nobody will catch it, but I turned it off when I heard this.
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“I cut this piece four times and it’s still too short.”
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Isn't it filmed in New England? He probably said "Haaaadwood". Maybe it does mean something else there.
Hey, maybe I can finally sell them those dogwood studs I've had in storage.
I can't bash the show, afterall I started watching at age 10 and it has come to be my inspration for working in this business that I love. (sometimes hate). I like the show. Guess what? Its not smoke and mirrors, Norm does know his $hit. I've been at this 22 years now and I cant believe the dumb mistakes I make! Lets cut the show a break.
-Lou
I'm pretty sure Norm or Tommy Silva wouldn't have called it a hardwood floor and then say it was fir. I haven't heard them make mistakes like this but maybe I'm just being overly picky by expecting them to be right when they are pretty much the benchmark of home building shows.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Like Kleenex, any tissue gets called that, as with wood floor
SYP is hard as Oak or harder, but still a softwood, and would sound goofy saying " we installed a softwood floor"
Get over it..LOL
SYP is hard as Oak or harder
Rabble rouser, Ya know an 'off the top' comment like that will get other comments.
Knew Oak is harder than SYP since 4 YO and trying to nail either ......
Relative hardness from "Mark's handbook" , 1936 edition:
Hickory -100
Oak -84
Walnut - 65
Sugar Maple - 60
SYP - 54
Poplar - 50
White pine - 30
Alder - 5 (Ok, did add in the alder)
Or, this was the very first hit on the net:
http://www.woodfloorsonline.com/techtalk/hardns.html
LOL.
I mean Old Heart pine..CAN be as hard or harder than Oak . Red Oak at that.
geeze, do I gotta esplain it?
For really hard, ya want slow grown SYP..OLD stuff with the resin oxidized..think AMBER in the pores. That is some nasty hard stuff.
I have been trying for years to learn more about Silva Brothers Construction. Tom Silva was my hero since I was in kindergarden. Any real and accurate information is much appreciated.
"For really hard, ya want slow grown SYP..OLD stuff with the resin oxidized..think AMBER in the pores. That is some nasty hard stuff."When I worked at a lumber yard, we ran a bunch of old SYP through the saws and killed the blades. OTOH, the way the old guy sharpened them, it could have just been from them going through the air. That stuff was hard, dry and perfect for the front panels of the speaker cabinets I built.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I've had Hemlock knots chip carbide teeth too.
Made furniture from Heart pine , hard to even sand it, it heats up and gums up everything. Burns your nostrils too. And god help ya if ya get a splinter, it festers up almost instantly.
Yeah, those were some of my favorite splinters. We started cutting some wet SYP and gave up. The foreman went and got us another bundle. Rough cedar was good for splinters, too. Made a little football from the cutoff of a 4x4 post. Knocked the corners off on the radial arm saw, left some of the rough in the middle and we tossed it around the lumber yard when we needed a break. Our hands were like leather at that point so it didn't matter much what it was made of.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
For really hard, ya want slow grown SYP
That is very true. my house is built out of reclaimed old growth SYP.
When it was built it was hand nailed.
Very hard stuff
If that is what you meant, you are still wrong. SYP is a close cousin to the wood we use as heart pine, but still not exact same species. And antique heart pine is not as hard as oak still
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Ok Paul.
> I mean Old Heart pine..CAN be as hard or harder than Oak .Yes. Pine is resinous, and the old growth stuff is as dense as you expect old growth wood to be. Try to drill a hole in a 50 year old yellow pine joist, and you will be sharpening the bit at least once. The resin sets up like a rock.George Patterson
sets up like a rock
Give it enough time for SiO2 to replace the cell structure and you do have a rock, MHOs hardness of up to about 7.5, kinda like your oxide grinding wheel.
Did you know that balsa is a hardwood?
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Is someone suggesting balsa should be used for flooring?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
It's hardwood, ergo it must be suitable for a floor, no?Actually, I think this is a tempest in a teapot. There is sort of an unconscious mindset that tends to make one call any nicely finished wood floor a "hardwood floor" (or, perhaps, "haadwood flowa"). In fact, the writers may have insisted on this even though Norm (or whoever it was) objected, their argument being that it was easier for viewers to understand.My gripe would be more along the lines of not showing some of the goofs and aw-sh!ts. I remember one time Norm was assembling a stair where the treads were set into mortised stringers from the back. He was showing how the stuff went together, using one of the tread wedges to avoid hammering directly on the tread. Well, something was wrong somewhere, and the tread didn't want to go in, but Norm kept flailing away with his hammer, totally demolishing the wedge and placing a good-sized dent in the back of the tread. I suppose he figured no one would notice, and they wanted to get it in one take, but it would have been more instructive to see him say something was wrong and go about figuring out what.But you only see them admiting mistakes on the part of the HO, never the pros.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Can you stand a stupid question from a non-carpenter? I thought I heard somewhere that "hardwood" comes from deciduous trees; softwoods from evergreens. Yes, no, partially true?
That's the official definition. And why balsa is a hardwood, while many fairly hard woods aren't "hardwood".
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
You just opened a can of worms......in our temperate climate most hardwood trees are deciduous. However Live oak is an evergreen hardwood and most tropical hardwoods are also evergreen.While it is also true that most softwoods are evergreen, softwoods are more accurately descibed as conifers and as exceptions to the "softwoods are evergreen" rule--Bald Cypress, Larch, and Tammarack are deciduous conifers.This is an another example of general statements "being incomplete or inaccurate." Generalities are handy though...most of the time. ;o)
Yeah, the problem there is equating "evergreen" with conifer. Of course, it can get even messier, since, eg, ginko is in a division by itself.Probably the better dividing line is between gymnosperms and angiosperms, but then you're including a lot of non-trees in the mix.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
And of course, you need to remember that bamboo is actually a grass, not a tree.
And tomatoes are a fruit. [Or is it berry?]
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Edited 7/31/2007 2:39 pm by DanH
yes true
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Like Kleenex, any tissue gets called that, as with wood floor<<I'm not so sure about that...possibly some pine 1/4 sawn floor might but I know when I see listings for houses that have floors like the ones I put in my house they never say hardwood...They say wide plank pine floors. Its possible like I said on the 2 1/4" strip floors they say it only cuz they're blatant liars...seen that too. Not cuz the're stupid...they're just lyin'. They just wanna make it sound better..stinkin' liars...lol
how it sounds^-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
My house was built in the '20s and you best pre-drill any nail or screw going into the old heart pine. Same with the floors. It is hard.
SYP framing lumber we use today is not the same, but a whole lot stouter than SPF.Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
"SYP is hard as Oak or harder"BS
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
And chestnut is technically a hardwood but sands (and weighs) like pine.
If you really want split hairs, the "fir" was not a true Fir, which would be too soft for flooring, but rather Douglas-fir (hyphenated, all one word, with a small "f"). Old growth, 1/4 sawn DF is a rather hard "softwood."
I'm not new at this- I know what Doug-fir is. What they used wasn't quarter sawn, unless by coincidence. Most joists and rafters here in Wisconsin are D-f (unless engineered lumber is used) and I worked on a house with quarter sawn D-f in the wife's office. Man, that was gorgeous!My point is that fir is not a hardwood and as far as I know, never has been. I know D-f is harder than a lot of other softwoods but it's still a conifer. Someone going into a flooring store or lumber yard, asking for hardwood and then telling the dealer that they want fir, will not work. If he had said it was balsa, fine, but he didn't.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I was not suggesting that you don't know your stuff...just that most statements are incomplete or inaccurate in some regard.
If they're mostly inaccurate or incomplete, what's the point of these shows, if not to educate?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 7/29/2007 1:38 pm by highfigh
what's the point of these shows, if not to educate?
To make a killing selling advertising time. About 7 minutes per half hour available around $5-10K the minute. More for some markets; more to get exclusive spots. Probably higher rates for TOH or the like, with name recognition.
If that sounds steep, call the sales office of the local cable outfit and ask them how much to buy 30 seconds on HGTV. Try not to stutter.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I'm hoping i'm wrong but on one of Kevins early episodes I swear I heard Kevin talking to Norm:
K:"Wont this room be a little dark once we finish this?"
N:"Yes, they'll be a light in here."
As I said, I hope I heard wrong but there you go.
Alls Kevin is is the boob that runs around asking "stupid" question so that Tommy and Norm can educate the masses.
Let all hope that he really isn't as dumb as he plays on the show!
Doug
Edited 7/29/2007 8:06 pm ET by DougU
Of all the HG-TV type shows I have seen, no one can compare to the class act of host Steve Thomas. This Old House lost much when it canned him.
Who said he got canned?
According to wikipedia:Since leaving This Old House, Thomas has contributed to programming on The History Channel, hosting and co-producing (now producing) the Save Our History series, including one program showing George Washington's estate and another in the Aleutian Islands of Alaska. He is still on the DIY Network in This Old House Classics. He can also be seen hosting a new DIY Network show about habitat for Humanity. The This Old House official website reports that Thomas' departure was purely voluntary, enabling him to concentrate his creative energies elsewhere in television.¹ Steve describes This Old House as "one of the best adventures of my life."Off-topic, but Chief Justice John Roberts now lives in Steve's old house, and that is where he suffered his seizure
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,291445,00.htmln 2006, Roberts and his wife bought a house and land on Hupper Island off of Port Clyde, which is part of the town of St. George. The home had belonged to Steve Thomas, the former host of the "This Old House" television show, according to the Knox County Registry of Deeds.
i can kinda see your point, Much like a skillsaw is a saw even if there holding a Dewalt or a sawsall is a sawzall if there holding a makita one, What he may have meant was the floor was 3/4 tand g even though fir, was a real floor system not a pergo type floor, I guess he should have said we have a real wood floor. May be nit picky but i bet if that actor ordered a BLT for lunch and it came without the tomato he would say something to;)
> May be nit picky but i bet if that actor ordered a BLT for lunch and it came without the tomato he would say something to;)When #2 son was a cook for the local Carlos O'Kelly's (sit-down Mexican chain), someone once ordered a quesadilla with no cheese.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
OK, since you mentioned quesadillas, why do they have something called queso cheese, in Texas?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
The same reason that your French dip is served with au jus.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I agree with the sentiment that pretty much most wood floors will be called "hard" wood floors.
But the one that gets me is the Rich Trethewy keeps saying that water EXPANDS when it is heated!
Every high school student, and anyone who looks at an ice cube tray, knows that water CONTRACTS when it is heated. It expands when it is cooled.
ps And if you can ever figure out why, you can probably win a Noble prize.
Every mechanical engineer knows that's not true; that's why engineers don't let high school students do their work.
Water expands when heated above 4 deg C OR cooled below 4 deg C. 4 C is its most dense temperature.
Well, liquid water expands when it is *frozen*, but I don't know that it necessarily contracts when it is heated. That is, unless it is very near the freezing point when it is heated. Then it expands a little bit.http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/eng99/eng99358.htm
"ice does not expand as it gets colder.When water freezes, it increases in volume about 9%. The ice then shrinks as the temperature decreases. The shrinkage is tiny, about 0.4% going from 30F to -50F.As a side note, liquid water is densest at a temperature of 39.2F. The density differences at higher and lower temperatures are very tiny. Cooling 39.2F water to 0F expands it only 0.01%.Another note, there are at least 12 forms of ice. Most can be obtained only in the laboratory under high pressure."Rebeccah
>> "When water freezes, it increases in volume about 9%. As a side note, liquid water is densest at a temperature of 39.2F. The density differences at higher and lower temperatures are very tiny. Cooling 39.2F water to 0F expands it only 0.01%."I don't follow. If water is cooled from 39 F to 0 F (at sea level) it goes from water to ice. Therefore is would expand 9%, wouldn't it?
Hmm. Looks like that article had a typo. Should have said "Cooling 39.2F water to 32F," or "Cooling 39.2F water to 0C."Rebeccah
39.2ºF and 0ºC- this is exactly the same reason the Mars lander crashed (60KM vs 60 Miles). Mixing the two systems causes confusion.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Well, it was a hair more complicated than that, but yeah, the root of the problem was the wrong measuring system.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Confusion between mesuring systems was also responsible for having a 767 run out of fuel and land on a dragstrip in Canada.
IIRC, the only real problem was with units. The actual numbers would have made it work if the "problem" hadn't presented itself. Of course, that may have been what they want us all to know but if I need to, I'll contact someone I know at NASA. I'm certain he wasn't involved since he wouldn't have allowed that kind of error to come from his area, or himself.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
When they make course corrections, some fraction of the force is off-center, causing the vehicle to rotate slightly. This is then corrected for with thrusters. As I understand it, that off-center force (and the correcting force) was expressed in English rather than metric units, this caused the trajectory of the vehicle to be miscalculated, and it snowballed into throwing the vehicle off-course.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I wonder whose butt was in a sling for that one.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Got any Ice-9???What does a Bokonist say just before he commits suicide??.
.
Pants???I Don't need No Steenking Pants!!!
Water DOES expand when heated. It also expands as it freezes. The most dense temp for water is something like 2C.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
It expands as it freezes and when it's heated. That was a trick question in my chemistry class. It contracts when it's in a specific temperature range, IIRC. Any chemists here?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I guess I should have read the other responses before posting, eh?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
> Every high school student, and anyone who looks at an ice cube tray,
> knows that water CONTRACTS when it is heated. It expands when it is
> cooled.No, it expands when it is heated. It contracts when it is cooled. It expands again when it turns to ice. But then, it's no longer water.George Patterson
It expands again when it turns to ice. But then, it's no longer water.
if it is no longer water, what is it?
The substance formerly known as water.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Ice.George Patterson
cool reply
Thanks for making that crystal clear!;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!