Any opinions on suspending a floor from ICF’s??
Using Nuduras, and need to suspend the floor system inside the ICF’s to lower the house profile –
Option 1 – ledger attachment and hangers for the joists (floor trusses in this case)
Option 2 – brick ledge form with joists on a sill on the ledge
My old school attitude says have it sitting on a platform, but I know the engineers say ledgers and hangers are fine.
Any druthers on this?
Replies
I'm old school too. I think hangers are too noisy, even if you put glue or caulk or anything in them.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Have you ever done a top cord bearing wooden floor truss?
We used top cord bearing steel joist in commercial work,but I emember one residential job where we used top cord bearing wood joist. I wasn't on that framing crew but did do some of the finish work on the house and remember asking about them. The owner/archy of the house didn't want the extra height that bottom cord bearing trusses would have added.
If it is just an ICF foundation, that would lower the floor band height considerably.
Not sure about a total ICF house. Never worked on one.
Yes, I've set a lot of top cord bearing trusses. And your solution makes perfect sense except if the icf is going to continue up the walls. My objection was the noisy hangers but that seems to be a non-issue. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I wasn't sure if it was a total icf construction or not.
The house I work on was a modernistic block home built on a really steep site. Hanging the trusses did not create a low ceiling on any of the three floores.
Wierd place, fluted block walls with lots of radiuses, flat roof with parapet wall, no windows on the street side to speak of, exclusive high end neighborhood. Wierd owners.
Can't remember how man people stopped to ask if was a new sewage treatment plant :)
I installed mine with a ledger. LVL ledger with TJI joist. No problems, no noise. I think it's easier to fine tune the floor for level, if necessary.
John
Does the ledger go under the joist or do the joist hanger to the ledger? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Hanger to ledger.John
And there's never any noise from the hangers and nails through the hanger? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
None. Used the top flange mounted hangers. Finish floor is 90% tile over hardibacker so it has a lot of mass if that makes a difference.John
Simpson has a hanger that simply is inserted into the foam and cast in place. They are much faster than anything else and rated for something like 2000 lbs each in the verticle.
Another good option is a ledger connection with J-bolts and some cutouts for concrete to fill between wall and ledger.
ARXX has some good online diagrams of the various options in their ICF literature.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
sundrop,
The Nudura dealer where I live sells individual truss hangers made by ICF Connect Ltd. and cast into the concrete core. I use them even though I have never installed Nudura.
They save quite a lot of time over any other system I have ever tried, and I think I've tried everything except a brickledge on the inside (where do you install bracing?).
http://www.icfconnect.com/
The Simpson ledger hangers are OK except that they are expensive and you still have to install truss or joist hangers after you have installed the ledger. You also have to remove all your bracing before you install the ledger and then bring in something else to stand on, whereas with the ICF Connect, you work from your ICF bracing platform. One less step - a little less trouble.
The only downside to the ICF Connect hangers is that you will inevitably have to alter your framing layout a bit here or a bit there to avoid having to put a hanger on top of a web insert. Then there might be hassles when you install the subfloor. It hasn't been a big problem for me, but you have to think it through in advance. And don't put any bracing on top of a joist or truss location. There is also a small trick to getting the first and last truss fastened correctly.
I like these things. They are quick, easy and the price is right.
Ron