If there were no Electrical code …
My wife and I are planning to build our own home and do as much work as possible ourselves. We live outside the city limits and have checked with our County office about building codes. Apparently the only thing they care about is how far the septic is from the well.
I’ve been reading up on the NEC and plan to follow the guidelines for wire gauge, separate circuits for heavy appliances, number of circuits, separating lighting circuits, GFCI near water, etc. I was also planning on installing AFCI outlets in the bedrooms until I read some posts in another discussion saying the requirement for AFCIs has been removed in many areas, and that many feel they are unnecessary and a waste of money.
I don’t want to skimp on the electrical to save money, but I don’t want to throw money away either.
So what are NEC requirements you would keep and what do you have little use for? Are there guidelines you follow even though they’re not requirements because you feel they make for a better, safer installation?
Replies
I would get "Wiring a House" by Rex Cauldwell.
Excellent read.
Soultrain: I got Rex's book, I got a copy of the NEC. Anybody who really wants to learn how to do electric right as well as the Why? should get a copy of HP Richter's 650 page classic, Practical Electrical Wiring. About fifty bucks from Amazon. I rewired my house from the meter on out. The inspector asked me if I was an electrician.
I highly recommend it for anyone interested in wiring. You can skip the chapters on 3-phase commercial stuff, unless you're really fascinated.
You might want to check with your state about electrical code issues.
I have found that in the absents of local code, you still need to comply with state codes. Also in rural areas you might find out that the electrical inspector is a state employ and covers several counties.
The same thing occurs with the state health departments.
In short, never assume that there is no code. It would be a shame to find a red sticker on your door or meter base, because you believe some yokel at the county court house.
Call your local power company. they'll give the straight poop on you electrical code requirements.
Dave
In the absence of any applicable local law(i.e. your jurisdiction did not adopt the NEC or any other code) I would recommend that you wire the house to the NEC and do not choose to ignore any rules. Although, you could choose to follow the 2002 Code which does not require AFCI's.
It is my understanding that the resoning behind removing the AFCI requirement by many jurisdicitions was because there were no testers for the devices and the manufacturers were producing some faulty products. It was causing Electrical contractors to lose boat loads in callbacks. There are testers now, but they are still pricey.
Actually the 2002 code does call out AFCI's.And I think that a lot of jurisdictions did not require them because they where added about the time that they first came out. No track record of effectiness.
Your right. I think it called for them to be required on a specific date that was later than the code would have typically been adopted in most jurisdictions to help people ease into the requirement. Or maybe it was because they hoped someone would have a tester on the market by then.
Oh, and some jurisdictions required them before 2002 even though the code didn't.It is not my job to tell you that it can't be done. It's my job to tell you how much it will cost. Here, sign this change order.
The 1999 NEC required AFCIs effective January 1, 2002. (210-12(b)).
Yeah...I guess I've been doing this too long. I just realized how many Code books I've purchased in my career.
But back to the point of the original post in this thread. If no Code applies to your project, pick a modern standard (code) and follow it. Don't deviate from it without thourough reasoning. If you think you want to use regular breakers in place of AFCI's then at least understand the advantages of saftey that they offer, before you choose to forgo them.It is not my job to tell you that it can't be done. It's my job to tell you how much it will cost. Here, sign this change order.
NJ (and several other states) removed the AFCI req't from the code.
1) the Taunton book by Rex Caudwell is pretty good. I haven't seen better. ( But not as excellent as Taunton's plumbing books.)
2) call the power company. Unless you are going to generate your own electrons, someone has to hook you up. And they may have standards to meet. e.g. a government or an independent inspector who saw everything BEFORE the walls were buttoned up.
3) talk to a couple of banks locally. Yes, maybe you can move in with no inspection. But if no bank will loan on an uninspected house, you get can't ever move out. Until you find a cash buyer. And a cash buyer would have his pick of all those involuntarily owner-financed houses in the same bind. That is what happens up here, outside of city limits.
There are dang few things in the code that aren't also a good idea. Maybe a few things that protect the next owner more than the owner-builder (who intrinstically knows a lot about how to and how not to use the plubing and wiring). But do you want to save $40 and worry about the buyer 15 years hence doing something stupid? ACFI might be a grey area, currently. For plumbing, I'd have foregone the anti-syphon hosebibs. Not that anti-syphon isn't a nice concept, but sometimes, I want to be able to circulate water, not just dump it.
Mostly though, codes are MINIMUMS!, not neccesarily best practice. Why have any 14 gauge in the house? Why use $0.69 receptacles with spring clips to sort of grab the conductors (instead of real receptacles with screws, much less good ones with cadium contacts)? Maybe in Crappy Spec Housebuilding. But not in Fine Homebuilding.
Oh honestly- come on David! Why have any 14 gauge in your house? Because it's ADEQUATE! Properly protected by a circuit breaker, there's absolutely nothing wrong with 14 gauge wire for 15 A circuits!
Over-building in that kind of way isn't just pointless, it's wasteful. Extracting copper from the earth is an energy and waste-intensive process as you'll no doubt know as a fellow chem eng. Don't encourage people to over-consume this resource needlessly.
(BTW- we agree about the stab connectors- use the screws, they're more reliable!)
As to codes- they're neither indicators of good practice nor are they really minimum standards either. They're a means to enable non-experts to construct sub-optimally with minimal design effort, without killing people. That's fine, because most people are not expert enough to construct anything which might kill people next year or in fifty years if they're not done properly right now. And in many cases, over-building is cheaper than optimal construction once you figure in the engineering costs of an optimal design.
While I definitely see their benefit, I object to the use of codes to prevent engineers from doing engineering: designing something which truly IS purpose-built and optimal rather than a one-size-fits-all (or one size fits NONE) solution out of a code book. Codes were written by engineers, and now they're used by inspectors (technicians usually at best) to tell engineers what they can and cannot design- that's something I detest. They're also used by engineers who are too afraid or too lazy to do engineering- something I detest even more. Codes should consist of two sections: a perscriptive section for non-experts, and a design guidance section for engineers.
To the original poster: if you're not an expert in electrical design, follow a code. If no local code exists, follow the NEC. If you are an expert, chances are there's some inspector somewhere who doesn't trust your expertise. If they don't work for the local town or the local electrical utility, they work for your insurance company. Follow the code and save yourself a lot of hassles. That said, leave out the AFCI breakers- retrofit those later if someone tells you to. They're expensive, prone to false trips, and not all that much more protective than an ordinary breaker anyway. Houses were built and used safely without them for the past fifty years.
"Oh honestly- come on David! Why have any 14 gauge in your house? Because it's ADEQUATE! Properly protected by a circuit breaker, there's absolutely nothing wrong with 14 gauge wire for 15 A circuits!"I've got 14-3 in my house because it is used only on lighting circuits. Clearly not going to exceed 15 amps now or in the future.And what about energy loss in the wall, versus getting more voltage to the appliance? And potentially earlier motor burn-out from slightly under-voltage operation? The electrical code, regarding wire size, is about not burning down the house, not about energy efficiency.And other 15-amp circuits, if I had any? Yeah, 14-gauge would be fine, but would be one more "inventory" item. What if I ended up with 180 feet of 14-2 left over, instead of finishing off a big roll of 12-2? The big benefit I see to 14-gauge is maybe you save yourself from labelling conductors because it can be distinguished from 12-gauge in a J-box. But I still label them.But for receptacles, I opted for everything to be 20 amps, the C/Bs, the conductors, and the receptacles. Couldn't mix anything up, less worry about running the hair dryer / space heater while all the lights are on.I agree with you on reducing the resource use. Very much so. We drive a Prius and a Corolla. Not only fuel efficient but, the Corolla at least, goes for 300,000 miles so I buy one car in the time most people buy two or three. The four times a year I need a real truck (insead of a good roof rack) - I rent or borrow one. I and the enivronment come out way ahead.I also agree about not constraining competent engineers from designing and optimizing an installation. Follow the cookbook rules and therefore have it automoatically blessed. Or figure it out and stamp it. One or the other.But I'm really careful about not practicing outside of my areas of expertise. As a good doctor or lawyer should be, too. But some engineers aren't that cautious. I suspect you've also seen that happen.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
> 14-gauge would be fine, but would be one more "inventory" item.
I'm with David on this one. Stock only #12 wire and 20 Amp breakers. Put more stuff on each circuit than you could with #14 and you're not wasting copper.
-- J.S.
Forgive me if I've missed something, but the ordinary U-ground receptacle with single vertical hot and neutral sockets is only rated for 15A. Putting 20A conductors on that would be fine (provided the receptacle wasn't a cheap one which will just break when you try to tighten 12 gauge in the screw terminals). But then putting a 20A circuit breaker on that circuit wouldn't be safe, or would it? It seems to me there'd be the potential for you to smoke a receptacle in a short-circuit situation. The breaker should be sized for the weakest link, which in this case is the receptacle itself.
A 20A receptacle has 15 and 20A terminals- granted, they're the same physical size and contact area, so perhaps what's the diff? Or is it that a 15/20A combined receptacle could permit a person to load the 15A terminals to 20A. I'm sure those receptacles would be designed to permit that to occur safely (i.e. without frying the receptacle). But would the cord on the appliance be good for 20A in a short circuit situation? Maybe, but probably not. If it's got a CSA or UL sticker on it, chances are it's not going to burst into flames if loaded at 15A long enough to trip a breaker. But what about at 20A? Is that still a certainty? Forget about the internal fuses that may or may not be there- they won't help much when the source of the short circuit is some metallic object cutting through the cord itself.
Call me wrong if you like, but I think it's better to keep circuits designed for 15A protected at 15A. Use 12 gauge wire if you like for energy efficiency or added perceived safety, but I'd still argue that it's wasteful to do that. 14 gauge is adequate for 15A service.
I have my receptacles in each room well divided amongst circuits, and have split the ones most likely of seeing simultaneous heavy loads- the ones in my shop, not just in the kitchen where that's required by code. Personally, I think that adds more protection than 12 gauge does. It also saves a conductor.
I too am careful not to practice far outside my competence without assistance from someone who already has that competence. But I don't park my brain at the door, ever. I work hard and listen carefully to extend my competence to new areas whenever I can.
Where are you going to find something with a 20 amp plug.15 amp receptacles are rated for 20 amps feed through. In fact is you split the terminals you could hook it up to 2 15 amp circuits and have 2 15 amp loads plug in at one time.So the US code allowes 15 receptacles on 20 amp circuits as long as there is more than one. And the common duplex counts as more than one.I believe that Canadain code is a little different in that area.
I split circuits to every room and always run A-B-A-B, so if you are an odd number away from a receptacle, you are on a different circuit. (Now THAT uses more copper!). I can see your point on protecting 15-amp components, but nothing protects 18-gauge lamp cord to a table light if someone put a 500 or 1000-watt bulb in it. You can idiot-proof something but you can never fool-proof it - the fools are too clever.I rather have you wire my house than most contractors out there. Thoughtful, skilled people can have difference of opinion on mihor points of art. More important is that have well-considered reasons for their technic.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
You're preaching my religion, David. I use the same line, except I say that you can never idiot-proof anything- you can only make it idiot-resistant. Idiots are too clever AND too inventive. Nobody can put themselves in a situation to image every crazy thing an idiot can do to a piece of equipment, regardless what principles are involved in its operation.
Your points about 20A feedthrough use of 15A receptacles are well taken. I see how and why you're doing what you're doing. We agree that it's all shades of gray in regard to device protection.
I chose to have 12-2 wiring for all my receptacles and 14-2 for all lighting circuits because my electrical contractor was going to upcharge us significantly if we elected to stay uniform at 12-2.In a home with foam-filled cavities, it seems like cheap insurance to upsize the conductors a little bit to prevent too much localized heat from melting the insulation. I had to rewire an entire boat from top to bottom, and upsizing conductors by two gauges was typically needed to meet ABYC specifications. Since it's 12VDC, that meant going from 2AWG to 00AWG among other things. Not fun to fish.Another weak point are switches and receptacles. As my comprehension of the issues facing this industry mounted, so did my dread trying to specify what I wanted for our contractor without being too restrictive/micromanaging/etc. ... so what is "spec grade", etc.? In the end I relied on my contractor to provide us with "good stuff", i.e. switches with screw terminals, fat wipers, and so on.Another thing to consider is remote breaker boxes. For example, many utility rooms could be put on one breaker box to allow service technicians easy access to all the relevant breakers while also minimizing the amount of wire needed to service that location. That consideration wasn't relevant in our case (the utility room and the main breaker are close) but served us well for the 2nd and 3rd floor, which run off a single 100A box on the 3rd floor (as does the attic AH, filtration, etc.).Some homeowners cannot stand the thought of a breaker box in a common hallway, but will eventually hate every minute of fussing in the basement to find the right breaker among the multitudes when, not if, a breaker pops. Speaking of which, am I allowed to paint the breaker box a different color (i.e. wall color)? :-P
Edited 8/11/2005 5:33 pm ET by Constantin
"In a home with foam-filled cavities, it seems like cheap insurance to upsize the conductors a little bit to prevent too much localized heat from melting the insulation."That is already taken into account."Some homeowners cannot stand the thought of a breaker box in a common hallway, but will eventually hate every minute of fussing in the basement to find the right breaker among the multitudes when, not if, a breaker pops."That is not a problem with the number of location of the panel(s). But rather the use of quaility breakers that clearly indicate what is tripped and how well the panel is marked.And with multipel panels there is more chance of going to the wrong panel.
I'll have to defer to you on the wire thickness question. Clearly, I am not a a licensed electrician but rather a conservative homeowner that prefers to oversize certain services beyond what the code calls for due to bad experiences with wire thicknesses in the past. My marginal cost of going up one size was almost zero.I doubt that the outlets in each room have to be on a separate breaker also, but that's what I required. These days, the code also requires separate lighting and outlet circuits, another highly-desireable feature in my book. I once lived in a dorm where 3 bedrooms, the common room, and a hallway were on one 15A breaker. That thing popped like popcorn (3-4 times a night, usually). This madness didn't end until I brought in a Fire Marshal, followed by letters to B&G, as well as the VPs in the school. They knew that once the problem was identified in print that there would be no plausible deniability.As for the wisdom of satellite vs. single-location circuit breaker panels, my view is shaped by the trials and tribulations of getting a 1872 Mansard to code. I prefered to minimize the number of holes that have to be drilled through the structure to get power to its intended use and a satellite breaker box helps me in that scenario. Our house used to be wobbly enough as it was.Given that we have only two breaker box locations, I doubt there will be a lot of confusion as to where to go to shut something off. In our home, most rooms are not more than one flight of stairs away from the breaker box that controls their power, which I consider a convenience and safety benefit. For example, I imagine that the AC technicians will love the ability to shut off and re-power the attic AH right from the side of the attic stairs instead of having to run down/up 4 flights of stairs.I agree with you that quality breakers are the most important factor in being able to discern which breaker has tripped. Resetting the proper one also relies on good labeling, as you point out. I hope to put maps into or near the breaker box that outline the house and the breaker circuits so that rooms are identified by location, not their "name".
"These days, the code also requires separate lighting and outlet circuits, another highly-desireable feature in my book."No such requirement, with one minor except. The kitchen small appliance circuits can't have lighting on it.
Thanks for the clarification. I thought it applied to the whole house.Well, then this is yet another instance of where IMHO the code is below par. I like separate lighting and outlet circuits for the simple reason that's it's nice to be able to find the circuit breaker panel without tumbling on the way to the panel at night. It also allows me to shut down juniors inevitable electronic noise-generating capacity without denying him/her the ability to read a book... quietly. :-P
My approach to it is one panel per floor. You never have to climb stairs in the dark, or to kill a circuit to work on it.
-- J.S.
Sub-Panels are a great idea. I replaced the 30A, 240V service in my home a few years ago with a 200A panel. When I built my garage(shop) I put a 100A Subby out there. When I finished the attic I put a 100A subby up there. It was easier than pulling fifteen circuits up there for one thing.
You can put panels in walk-in closets and in the back of closets provided that you allow for the working space required by code. You can stick a panel on a wall where a normally open door (bedroom or hallway) would hide it. I've seen nice recesses with doors that look like closet doors hiding panels, face-frames nailed to the wall around the panel to support cabinet doors, large pieces of art hanging over the panel, painted covers and one cover that was wallpapered so well that if the customer hadn't tod me where to look for it I would have missed it. All are legal.
As for wire gauge. If you don't overload your circuits 14awg is fine. upsizing does you no good if you load up the circuits to much. Bigger wire is harder to work with. For speed of installation, I would rather work with 14awg where I don't need 12awg for the load requirements. The other advantage to smaller circuits is that you can break up a house onto more circuits and alleviate future problems like shutting off an entire floor of bedrooms to work on a circuit. (extreme example, but you get my point)It is not my job to tell you that it can't be done. It's my job to tell you how much it will cost. Here, sign this change order.
"large pieces of art hanging over the panel . . . All are legal."
My distribution panel is right in the middle of the main hallway. Center of the house. 4 feet on one side and 5 feet on the other. Covered by a 5' x 8' quilt our friends gave us at our wedding. Planned it that way. And, if I need to work on something, I simply flip the quilt on top of the panel door.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
bosn ---You are not allowed to place subpanels in walk in closets if they are "clothes closets." Stupid rule but..
Maybe not so stupid if you stuff your closets full of clothes like I do. It would be a pain getting at a panel in there. ;-)
-- J.S.
"You are not allowed to place subpanels in walk in closets if they are 'clothes closets.'
Stupid rule but.."
Actually Art.240.24(D) states:
"Not in Vicinity of Easily Ignitible Material. Overcurrent devices shall not be located in the vicinity of easily ignitable material, such as in clothes closets."
Depending on the AHJ and their interpretation, some closets may by large enough and have sufficient space that is, in the AHJ's interpretation, far enough away from the clothes(say, behind a door where a door swings open to a wall). Here is a good example of why it is a good idea to be in good relations with your local inspectors. Sometimes you can convince them that an installation can meet the spirit of the code and fit into the unique challenges of a particular job.
I faced this in my own house. The absolute best location for my sub-panel was behind the door in the walk-in and because there was sufficient distance between the panelboard and the clothing the inspector allowed it.If you haven't drawn blood today, you haven't done anything.
NEC_? Why not just do it like they do it down here in Peru? (I´m working on a project here=) Everything is 220 (not 240) circuits and they use 14 and 16 gauge wire for everything......two wire systema with out ground----oh and did i mention that they have never heard of a wire nut---just twist that sucker and put some tape on it!
LOL but they have no fire worries since everything is masonry construction with stucco finish.
"Everything is 220 circuits and they use 14 and 16 gauge wire for everything"
Twice the voltage means half the amperage for the same wattage. So, yes, wire sizes are smaller.
"oh and did i mention that they have never heard of a wire nut---just twist that sucker and put some tape on it!"
Don't you hate it when you're standing in the shower, wet and naked, and touch a pipe from the point-of-use HWH? And get that little tingle that some voltage is leaking through you?David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Dave----The shower here gets even better. A friend and I went to a town in the mountains, to do some work on a missionaries house one week, and i stayed in this little hostal. Ok it was more like a house which rented out a room. LOL the boasted hot water......They had one of those point of use line heaters......Then on the wall (in the shower) was a 60 amp breaker, right in the open, mounted to the wall. From it was and old (probly about 16 gauge) lamp cord going up the wall and wrapped around the shower head a couple of times. And of course connected with black electrical tape. Needless to say, i showered with cold water. Did git quite a pop from the valve body when i turned of the water----even though the breaker was off.
why wouldn't you use 14 gauge in a house
berg
"why wouldn't you use 14 gauge in a house?"
Discussed above, but again:
It's one more "inventory" item to keep around and 12 gauge has lower voltage loss in the wall. Using 14 gauge where allowed would only save a few bucks in the whole house.
Nothing wrong with using 14 gauge in 15-amp circuits.
I do use 14-3 for three-way and four-way light switches.
David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
You are correct about the total cost for a single house not being much more. but what about the electrical contractor that is doing a hundred or so house a year. Add up those small amounts, at the current cost of copper, and he may make a little money by using 14 ga. where it is allowed
Dave
my local AHJ has no requirements re electrical either, but there is a myriad of state level and insurance related reasons for following code.
Supposing that you took shortcuts and ignorantly did something that caused the house to burn down. maybe you sold the house by then, or maybe you hada young child who was hostess to a sleepover when that fire occoured...you could concieveably be held guilty of negligent manslaughter, depending on the laws in your state. Morallyu, you would certainly need to wrestle with your conscience.
I wired my won house, legal since I was building it for myself, but before I could get permanent power from the utility company, I needed one of two documents - either a CO from the town stating that the electrical code was complied with, or a form signed by a master electrician stating that the house was wired correctly. One of my electrical subs is also a close neighbor and friend, so he was glad to do a walk through, ask me a couple questions, and sign off.
The point is that there are other authorities and reasons than just local jurisdictions. You should probably check further up the ladder than just the local. Ask the state licensing for electricians, the power company, and your own insurance company AHEAD OF TIME, so you can be right to begin with. Changing thins to make corrections later is a pain.
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