*
Building a new house 2 storey, 2400 sq. ft, home in Grimsby, Ontario Canada. Plan to stay in it along time. If you were building for yourself would you:
1. Use block or poured concrete? Damp proof it how? (it will ha basement)?
2. Use rebar in footing/wall where and how much?
3. How thick basement/garage slab? Re-bar or Wire?
4. 5/8″ or 3/4″ T&G subfloor (over TJI Joists). Glue and nail/
Glue and screw?
5. 3/8″ or 1/2″ Ply with clips for roof (trusses 24″ o/c)?
6. Tar paper over complete roof or just eave edge?
7. 1/2″ or 5/8″ Drywall on ceiling? (TJI 16″ o/c, Truss 24″ o/c)
8. Placement/# of attic baffles for ventilation (gable/hip combo roof)? Ridge/box vent?
9. Flashing? (brick house with horizontal and angled roof
intersections).
10. Durarock, 3/8″ ply or diamond lath under ceramic tiles?
I could keep going but any other thing you think of would be helpful.
I realize there are a lot of threads here discussing some of what I
spoke of above and I have read these. I am looking for your current
opinions and experience.
Thanks
Replies
*
Steve,
I'm way down here in Texas where building has different needs. This may sound too simplified, but if it was my house, and I was going to live in it, I'd build the best I could afford. But here is my answer:
1. I don't know. We don't build a lot of basements around here. I think it depends on what kind of soil conditions you have up there.
2. Yes, ask the architect/engineer.
3. See my answer for #1.
4. 3/4" - glue and screw.
5. 5/8" min. decking on 24" centers with clips.
6. 30lb. entire roof.
7. 5/8" drywall everywhere.
8. This depends on the roof layout and style of roof.
9. Flash and counter-flash the hell out of everything.
10. Lathe and morter.
I would add........no MDF in the trim or cabinets. Get the best windows you can. If it doesn't move, insulate it. If it moves, catch it and insulate it. Don't use cheap paint, or skimp on the foundation.
Have a great house,
Ed. Williams
*1. Depends on pricing and quality of local contractors. A good masonry foundation will be just as good as a good poured foundation.2. Two 15m bars in the footings. Bond beam if masonry or 2 20m bars at top continuous.3. Basement slab 3" thick over poly. Garage 4" thick with 6x6 mesh.4. 3/4" glue and screw.5. 1/2" with clips.6. Felt paper over entire roof.7. 1/2" drywall over 1x3 on 12"centers over continuous poly at roof.8. Depends on your design and orientation.9. yes, depending on your design, copper is my choice.10.Durarock under ceramic.opinions haven't changed.Gabe
*Good Evening Ed,I thought George Jr. would have asked you to be his running mate.:)stay safe,Gabe
*Hi Steve, I'll throw in a two cent's worth if I may: 1)You may want to look at some of the more exotic new self-insulating foundation systems before closing your decision. If they're not quite right for you, then I'd recommend block, reinforced with rebar per code, insulation bonded to the outside, then a full waterproofing system applied (membrane outside, epoxy coating inside). 2) I think you're required to use 5/8 drywall on the ceiling by code where you are; I would use 5/8 everywhere because it's just so much better, quieter, solid, etc. 3) Durarock or equivalent 4) Use a rubber membrane near the eaves and 30# the rest of the roof. 5) Glue and screw the floors, I like ply over OSB, but 3/4 T&G is okay 6) Flash - yes, copper if you can 7) I think you'll need a thicker slab than that by code, mesh reinforcement is fine; insulate and vapor barrier under the concrete. Contrary to a previous opinion, I happen to like MDF trim (the wrapped kind, not the primer-only kind) - it's stable, easy to work with, and is kinder to the forrests.
*Steve:Buy a codebook. Read it. Consult manufacturer's recommendations. Ask local suppliers and reps. Spend some time in the library. Do your freakin' homework. Hire a builder(or have a little faith in the one you did hire).Sounds to me like you're either 1)trying to do something you're totally unqualified for or 2)second-guessing the builder you did hire. If 1), suggest you go find a reputable builder 'fore you get yourself in real trouble. If 2) he better know all these answers or you're in even more trouble. If you did your homework before hiring him(checked references, visited comparable projects, etc.) trust him. If you don't feel you can trust him, fire him now before you get into a real mess.Don't mean to come down hard on you, but all of your questions are either matters regulated by code, manufacturer's specifications, or acccepted building practices specific to your locale and site conditions. Some of them are dependent on info you haven't supplied. The only two I see that are matters of personal preference are i 4. 5/8" or 3/4" T&G subfloor (over TJI Joists). Glue and nail/Glue and screw? andi 10. Durarock, 3/8" ply or diamond lath under ceramic tiles? My opinions on these: 4. while you can use 5/8" on 16" spacing(you didn't mention spacing), I wouldn't use anything but 3/4". I use Advantec subfloor, which doesn't bow up or warp and I glue and nail with 8d ring shanks on TJI's and open-webs(10d rings on 2x joists). If I used plywood(which I never will again), I'd glue and screw and pray for no rain until the house is dried in.10. I agree with Ed on the lath and plaster bed, but it depends on whether you can find anyone locally to do the job. Durock is second choice. Plywood? Never.The architect you mentioned in your previous post should be able to answer most of the other questions. That's one of the things you paid them for. They should be on the plans and specs.Building a house ain't rocket science, but it takes a lot of hard work and painful experience to get to the point where a person can feel comfortable accepting the trust of his customers with the largest single purchase most of them will make. Do your own homework, and then come back and ask the professionals here with help filling in the blanks.LOL (sounds like you're gonna need it)Bill
*Steve Richardson,
View Image © 1999-2000"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
*Wow, lots of different opinions, here's one more.1. Block or poured are both fine if done well. If you want the best waterproofing, IMHO get one of those rubber membrains installed. Several waterproofing contractors install them under different names. MAke sure you have a perimeter drain in gravel and that it drains to daylight. Also install a sump pump. That's good insurance just in case. 2. 2 pices of #5 rebar in single story footings ~16" wide, 3 pcs in wider footings. In walls, whatever your mason or architect recommends. Vary's alot from place to place and wall to wall. 3. 4" slabs everywhere, wire mesh is fine. I also like fiberglass, makes me feel better.4. 3/4" t&G floor glue and screw.5. 5/8 ply on roof with clips. 6. Tar paper on whole roof, if ice dams are a problem in your area, water shield at eaves.7. 5/8 drywall on ceiling, 1/2" on walls. Remember, this stuff has a "grain" and will sag if installed the wrong direction.8. If you're talking about attic venting, there are alot of right ways to do it, rule of thumb: vent openings should be at least 1/150 of horizontal roof area with at least half at highest part of roof.9. Flashing? Step flashings or other flashings set into mortar joints where roof meets brick walls. Everyone's saying copper, I've never seen aluminum fail before the roof did. I vote aluminum unless you like the look of copper.10. Durock or true mud bed. Make sure floor is stiff, stiff, stiff first.
*Thanks so far for the positive responses.A note for BG 71. I realize these may seem like simple questions but as you see there are many opinions and my goal is to get a majority opinion. I am not satisfied to just accept the word of my architect you guys do this every day so I consider you the experts. As for my background I am a mechanical engineer(don't hold this against me) who works as a project manager for industrial applications. I am also a carpenter who prior to this job managed and worked on several small renovations with much success. I miss the satisfaction of working on a house project and look forward to doing it right on mine next year.The more I talk to subs around here the more opinions I get, for example: - No roofer spoken to so far uses tar paper under shingles. I think you should. - 3/8" roof, 5/8" deck is the common answer around here, some say don't waste your money to upgrade. I think I should.Thanks for the help and I realize that some people who post have never picked up a hammer or managed a group of trades and that is OK but I am qualified just seeking the opinions of the experts.
*Make sure you insulate under the basement slab. It will make for a much more livable basement.
*Where are you? I've never heard of shingling without tarpaper underneath.
*Hey Gabe,Those of us in the know hang our heads in shame. This is the best the great state of Texas has to offer?His slogan should be: "Vote for me because my father was a terrible President!".The man has no business running for President. The scary thing is..........he might win.Ed. Williams
*I wouldn't walk a 3/8" roof on purpose! And I believe felt is required by most warrenties....could be wrong, because I've never NOT used felt, go for 30lbs. And I forget where you are building, but I still recommend ice guard all the way around and up any valleys. Jeff
*Phil, I am interested in your ply over osb floors. what kind of ply?Ironically, when I started, the two floor system was standard, and it was particle board over ply. You are proposing the opposite and I find that extremely interesting?Do you felt in betwen layers too like they used to?blue
*Phil, I am interested in your ply over osb floors. what kind of ply?Ironically, when I started, the two floor system was standard, and it was particle board over ply. You are proposing the opposite and I find that extremely interesting?Do you felt in between layers too like they used to?blue
*I think that's a wise suggestion K Johnston.Steve, I lived in a house with 5/8" T&G. I'd not do that again unless I was a on a very tight budget, or intended to cover the floors again with a second layer. the house I livein now is hardwood over ply and carpeted. It has a very solid feel to it and is quiet. More seems to be better with flooring. I love the feel of concrete ceramic bases too. I've done several in my homes and always love the solid feel that they give. I've never used durarock and cannot understand the principles involved in flooring situations. I can understand it on wall, but not floors.I also lived in a house with 3/8" ply roof. Again, I'd reccomend at least 7/16" osb with heavier dimension style shingles. I've never believed that felt did anything for a roof. The manufacturers require it to maintain their warranty. Some in here claim that it helps to cool the roof and thus maintain the resiliency of the petroleum products that make up an ashalt roof. That seems to be the best answer that I've ever heard but if that was true, it wouldn't matter how it's lapped. The building inspectors around here require the laps to be such that they shed water. It's as if they think the felt won't leak with the 43,000 nail holes poked through it. If cooling is the answer, a better cooling system is in order for the underside of the roof. Put the felt on if thewarranty is important to you or get a signedwaiver from the supplier and co-signed from the manufacturer.Anyways, good questionsblue
*Ed, my friend, unless the last fellow that he let be executed can be proved to have been innocent of the crime, (before the election) he will be the next President.Al Gore should have been quieter during Clinton's terms. Vice Presidents, like children, should be seen and not heard. That way their lack of maturity can't show.I think I'd pick Pat Paulson over both of them.Gabe
*Steve:As far as I know, all shingle manufacturers require felt under shingles. Otherwise, you lose your warranty. I'd use Watershield or similar at all eaves, valleys, and dormers. Felt everything else. I use 15# felt if I'm shingling right away or 30# if it looks like it's going to be a while before I can get a roofer.3/8" ply or OSB doesn't meet either code or manufacturer's span requirements for 24" o.c. trusses. For 24" o.c., I'd use 5/8" if locally available and reasonably priced. Otherwise, use 1/2" with clips. I always use ply clips when rafters exceed 16" o.c., regardless of sheathing thickness. I never use less than 1/2" on any roof.You already got my opinions on subfloor. I'd highly recommend the Advantech if at all possible. I build down here in the north GA mountains, and it rains here when it doesn't rain anywhere else in the state. I used to use 3/4" ply and treat immediately with Thompson's but still had all kinds of problems with delamination, swelling, and buckling. None at all with Advantech. Last February, I had just started framing the roof on a house when one of our infrequent ice storms decided to come in, followed by another a week later. Three weeks later, when I followed a loader up the gravel road, the subfloor was still iced over. No problems with subfloor. Great stuff!!!Sounds like you're dealing with the tract house mentality up there. Try to find a good custom builder who knows how to build a house to last longer than the warranty. Be prepared to pay for his services. All considered, the difference in material costs won't amount to a hill of beans in the overall cost of your home. Don't cheap out on doors and windows, either. You should expect to spend appr. 10% of your overall budget on these.Long ago, in a galaxy far, far away, I started my career in electronics and worked up to my EE degree. I'm a lot happier now, building quality homes for discriminating customers. I've had lots of trouble coming to grips with the difference in residential v. commercial/industrial construction. It's really a different world. Don't expect the same process you'd take for granted on a megabuck commercial project.LOL again, and happy homebuilding,Bill
*I used the dimple material profiled in FHB #95 and the Journal of Light Construcction March '99 for waterproofing two basements in heavy clay, running the fabric to French drains. I ordered from ICE, Inc. out of Minnesota--nice, helpful folks. The first sheet was printed with the Delta name, although the second time i ordered i got something slightly different that smelled immoderately sweet, like a souped-up clothes dryer vent. On a hot day, it'll make you swoon! It's easy to put up, not messy, works on retrofits that rubber won't stick to, reasonably priced, and really keeps water out, to boot. The only problem i had was when backfilling, that the dimples collected dirt and pulled down hard on the term bar, so the second time i installed it, i put some crap 1/8" paneling i'd salvaged from the remodel over it before backfilling, and Voila! Une piece de resistance if you ever saw one.
*Considering that Pat died recently, that might be difficult. On the other hand, as VP he probably couldn't do much more or less now than before.
*Steve,1- two # 5 rebar laid continuosly, tied and set in chairs, overlap 2' and tied in footers. Block walls w/durobond every third course #6 rebar vertically 2' o.c.. fill all cores with #8 concrete mix (pea gravel and little extra sand so it flows) will get you exceptionally strong walls that are straight and level. (assuming a good mason. This method costs me about 15% less than poured walls.)You can spend a bunch of money on dampproofing and all of it will fail without moving water away from foundation. Perimeter tile at footer inside and out to daylight where possible, sump when not, sump backup for either. Plenty of gravel- clean washed- silt fabric over to intercept fines, 6mill poly from grade to outboard side of fabric,finish grade slpoping away from house, gutters and spouts to take water away. Parge block and use two coats bituminous spray.#3 4" concrete over rebar 2'oc both directions over 6" minimum gravel fill. 4mill vapor barrier in basement. mechanically compact fill in six inch lifts if you feel particularlly anal about hairline cracks, control joints per code3/4" plywood glued and nailed. I have used tji's for over ten years and never had a need to screw decking to them. nail off each sheet as it is laid.( Glue and screw decking to 2x's)You didn't ask but I will put in a plug for finger-jointed studs. I've used them in all my houses over the last five years and have fewer issues with nail pops crooked walls, trim pulling away etc. carpenters frame faster because they don't spend time crowning and culling out twisted studs.#5 1/2" ply with clips or 7/16" osb w/clips#6 30 pound felt, iceguard all eves and valleys and under all flashings.#7 around here everthing is 1/2" except for fire walls. Mike Smith's skim coat over blueboard looks good. Going to give it a go next month...#8 ridge vent w/ full soffit venting #9 copper is best flashing followed by lead, aluminum, terne#10 Durorock on walls, lath and mud on floors where traffic is heavy, durorock will serve in bathroomscopper supplies for water lines2x6 exterior wallsblah,blah, blahyou did say budget was not an issue?anyone of us could write a book here...
*That's why he wasn't returning my calls.Gabe
*That's the second or third post about felt under shingles required for a warrantee; well, in Southern Ontario, in most of the subdivisions they bang the shingles right onto the decking. It's an extra-cost option for a custom roof or a re-do. It's my belief that shingle life is doubled when you put them on over felt (I have no imperic evidence to fall back on, I just think it's so). Speaking of beliefs, most roofs have less than 50% of the required ventilation; I recommend a couple of those turbines to supplement the mushrooms.
*Gee Blue, I remember my parents using felt between a 1-by deck (they used to use 1x6 pine lumber nailed diagonally across the joists) and a 1/2" T&G 5-ply sub-floor in the 1950's; but, I've not seen particle board used. Probably because I've only gone back to carpentry full-time since '98 and none of that has been prime construction (I can't manage the hours they work around here, I have to drive a 7-year old to school and pick him up). But that would make sense to me because particle board, while providing a very flat, stable surface, will sag, even over short spans. In any case, my wife's office asked me to research the trade opportunity for OSB here; and, while talking to a manufacturer's rep in Taiwan he showed me their high-quality system, which was 5/8 T&G (G1S, 5-ply, solid core), glued to 5/8 OSB, glued to manufactured joists, and screwed through before the glue dries. Talk about rigid and non-squeak ! Their lower cost suggestion was double layers of 5/8 T&G, but they don't recommend single layer, they claim it will always squeak. Perhaps of interest, a nearby house (in-fill: original burned down), was using the double OSB deck; but, rather than binding the two layers, she was putting butcher's paper between the two layers and then screwing through.
* WBA HackSteve, I've been doing insurance repair and restoration work for about 15 years so I've seenit done every which way but loose. I too hope to build someday soon. Anyway...1.I've replaced about 35 house foundations that failed for a variety of reasons. Three of these wereconcrete. 32 were block. Guess which product I wouldnever consider using. Remember, foundation cracks inconcrete walls can be permanently repaired with epoxyinjection. Block- forget it. Coat with a good qualitycoating and cover with dimple plastic. This stuff is fantastic. 2.2 #4 bars in bottom third of footer. Residential walls are rarely reinforced.3.Basement 4" over 4" clean stone with meshGarage 5" to 6" both over 6 mil reinforced polyInsulation sure is nice in a basement floor.4. 3/4 Advantech glued and screwed. It is cheaperthan OSB and plywood and way more rigid. Also comeswith 50 year warranty including labor to repair anydefective product after finishes are installed. Therain doesn't affect it either.5.Unless you like waves on your roof, use 1/2" withclips or 5/8". Just look at the 20 year old homes with 3/8" ply in your area. Not good.6.Does it snow in Ontario ? Ice shield min 1 rowwith min 15# felt full roof I am so tired of ice dam repairs that are always solved by ice and watermembrane.7. What can you afford? 5/8" sure is nice for the density and especially the fire protection whichyou definitely will need over those TJIs. That 1/2"OSB web burns and causes joist failure a lot fasterthan solid lumber. This is really important when youneed to get out quickly.8.Have you considered setting your rafters on top of your joists with a plate? It gives you that extraroom you need for the R50-R60 in the ceilings for the extra low heating bills. Full baffles with ridgevents.9.Common Sense. Use flashing that lasts as long asthe material to which it is permanently attached.Use copper/lead coated copper on any brick surface.That is counterflashings and steps. Use aluminumfor valleys and everything else. I am assuming shingles not slate. Never put dissimilar metals in contact with one another. When the shingles go, the aluminum goes too, but the copper stays. Or were yougoing to change the brick too?10. NO 3/8" ply. Durock is fine for a new square andlevel home. Mud is wonderful but pricey.11.Hard wired, interconnected smoke detectors inevery room. Battery backup with the smokes on theirown circuit. A MUST. Also seal every penetrationbetween floors with sealant. This means every nookcranny, drilled hole with wires in it, crack,crevice.This cuts down on air and smoke movement.12.Buy six-pack, sit down with wife, prepare excuses now forBank VP as to why you need a little more at the end.Good Luck
*Tim...Your list is my list now...I'm printing it out and attaching it to my home contracts....Thanks.One minor change...roofs always 5/8" with clips for 24" span. 16" span 1/2" with no clips.near the stream,aj
*aj.. check and double check..nice list , tim