Interior doors out of square:fix or new?
I have an old house with paint encrusted interior 5 panel doors that need repair. The top reveal between the door and the jamb is not even, with a 3/4 inch gap at one corner. The door itself is square and the hinges firmly installed. In addition, the edges need light planing to eliminate binding and the mortise locks would need some cleaning and the hardware should be replaced. The doors are not incredibly special.
What is the most efficient solution to get the door to fit properly in its opening? Patch in a wedge shaped piece of wood or buy and fit a new door? I think the doors would probably cost about $300 each. Advise on patching appreciated. Also have some closed doors that are warped. Suggestions there, too.
Replies
Sounds like the floor needs to be leveled up in a few spots.
what's under the floor?
you don't "level up" a floor to fit a door.
because "level up"ing a floor generally means "level up"ing a house ...
and you certainly don't jack a house to fit a door.
you cut a door to fit the floor.
But in this particural case ... I'd suggest throwing a level against the jamb to see how far outta plumb it is. I'd also check the head for level.
Then ... if the ideal was a perfectly hung door ... I'd pop the trim ...
fix the door jamb ...
and rehang the door to fit the "now plumb/level" jamb.
and retrim.
and expect to have to trim the door bottom to fit the crooked floor ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Did it in my house and it worked great.
Center load bearing posts had settled, because footings 2 small.
Took a laser down there, and jacked it up.
Suddenly, all the doors work great. (roof even stopped leaking) bonus!!!
Glad I did it before you told me not to.
Edited 3/18/2007 2:32 am by 1muff2muff
yup ...
go thru life expecting to sell house leveling with each squeaky door call!
You'll do great.
so you're saying no jambs need to be tweaked ... no casing adjusted ... no plaster/drywall cracks ... windows screwed up ... flooring ...
oh, that's right ... the flooring was the original problem ... and now it's all automatically right back in place ... and ... fixed that roof leak too!
Now even water can't find a way in!
wow ...
like an old sales partner used to say ...
"gee lady, that ALMOST sounds too good to be true ...."
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
The point is that you need to ID and fix what needs fixing, not just the symptom of the problem.I was called once to look at a door that was dragging on the threshold and the flolor. Another guy was teling them that they needed 5-6 thousands dollars worth of foundation work. My approach was not to assume but to find out what is causing the problem. The screws in the top hinge were loose.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Fixed a door like that last week, loose screws all around. Also have added paper cereal box shims to tune a fit. (I know, not the highest quality work, but effective.)
I'm not the one on call.
I believe he said it was his own house.
His next question may be, " How do I fix the sloping floors now that I've rehung all the doors."
So let's give him some options.
Jeff, about a third of the time, if all you do is fix the door, you wioll be bnack fixing it further in another year or two. To attack just the door without at least taking alook at the problem is like mopping up the floor while ignoring the fact that the bathtub is overflowing. Turn off the faucet and unplug the drain first, then mop the floor
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"Doors are paint encrusted....edges need planed down a bit...mortise locks need fixing...doors are not incredibly special...
New doors..I think would probably cost $300 each.."
Whoa! Hold on a minute...if your existing doors are "nothing special", then why you willing to spend $300 each for new ones?
$300 for an INTERIOR door can buy you a really NICE interior door. For "nothing special doors, I can buy "nothing special"new doors in the range of:
$34 (6 panel colonist, hollow core , pressed panel...door only)
$68 ( same door but in a pre-hung package with stain grade jambs)
$80( hollow core birch veneer in a pre-hung package)
$90 (6 panel colonist... pine... door only)
$130 ( same pine door , but in a pre-hung package)
Soo where we going with this? If you truly can't match the doors for less than $300 a "pop," then perhaps all the time you spend stripping each door, repairing the locks and straightening things out is worth it. But if you just need to replace standard size doors, with "not so special doors"...You could buy some inexpensive pre-hungs and have the entire job done in a day.
Davo
I agree with JeffBuck. You may as well reuse the doors, particularly if they're all still square, uncut. You'll just have to pry off the trim, including the door stop and assess the situation. If the hinge side jamb is plumb, leave it alone. Otherwise start there and reshim the jamb to make it plumb. Pull the nails and shims out of the head jamb and the strike side jamb. Use a framing square or the door, repinned on it's hinges, (if it isn't too heavy) to get the head jamb and the hinge side jamb in position, then reshim and nail the head jamb, without setting the nails. Unless the door is too heavy, you can use it as a gauge in the opening, to reshim the strike side jamb (you may need to cut the bottom of the jamb to fit the floor). When you're happy with the reveal, re-install the trim on the in-swinging side of the opening. Re-check the reveal, then set the nails that go through the jamb and shims, install the door stop and, after a final check of the reveal, re-install the trim on the opposite side of the door opening. This way, you shouldn't have to plane the door, just fill some nail holes, sand and repaint the trim.
If you don't have much experience with hanging doors, this is an excellent way to teach yourself the finer points. Just be patient, keep an eye on where the jamb should be in relation both sides of the opening, and keep trying until you get a good, solid fit. BTW, the jamb should be shimmed at the head, the strike and near the bottom, with two more shim points between those three. Two or three nails in each shim, all to be hidden by the door stop. Same on the hinge side; shim behind each hinge, at the head and near the bottom. Cut the shim shingles with a sharp utility knife before installing the trim.
Thanks for the question. If this is more information than you need, let your question and my answer serve others who might not have the courage to present the same problem here. It's very common problem in older homes so you may have helped any number of others by asking.
Edited 3/18/2007 3:11 am ET by Hudson Valley Carpenter
"the door itself is square...3/4 inch gap in top corner between door and head jamb....edges need light planing because door is binding... hinges are firm"
With what you are describing, something in your evaluation doesn't quite "click."
It sounds as if your door has hinge bind, ... possibly a bent barrel ( or pin)...which would explain why the door edges are rubbing and the top gap is skewed. You mentioned door is "square", but I have a hard time picturing that since the door edges are making contact with the jambs and the head gap is off.
If everything you say is true, then as mentioned earlier, your house may very well be sagging. Does your house have plaster walls? Notice any cracks in plaster on either side of door header? These type of cracks are a good indication.
Davo
first thing - the doors are a symptoim talking to you about what is going one with the house. Listen to them and see where it is settling, then decide what needs to be done, if anything, to stop it from getting worse, or to correct that.
Then, after the house is sound, deal with the doors if you still need to.. generally we will add a shim piece glued on, and bondo it in smooth when refinishing the door.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
First off, level the foundation, reenforce joists, and do any other such structural repairs you may be planning or even thinking "maybe one day" first.
A new door can be fit to a racked opening, if care is taken. Or you can remove and reset the door frame to square it up. Depends on the "look" you want and how much work you want to do. (Squaring the frame is probably easier.)
You can fit up the old doors with "dutchmen" -- pieces of wood glued to the existing. (A scrap door may be a good source of matching wood.) First make a clean cut along the surface to be joined, then use glue and biscuits and/or screws to fasten on the new piece. Make it oversize a bit and plane down to fit. (If using screws, be sure to set them deep to allow for planing. If this is the hinge side, put wooden plugs in the old screw holes first.) Note that this works out better on the sides than top/bottom where you have some end grain to deal with, though too much on the latch side can upset the latch boring.
As for getting the stuck doors unstuck, that's where you just open your bag of tricks and try them one by one. Remove the hinge pins if possible. If paint is sticking the doors, cut through it with a utility knife (or maybe a Multimaster?). Remove the trim on one side and see if there are shims that can be removed to give the door more space. And of course use "gentle persuasion" with a small maul and a piece of lumber along the edges, if you can get on the right side of the door.
And pay attention to the slope of the floor. If the door swings from a low spot to a high spot the bottom will need to be trimmed to suit.
This the the kind of discussion that makes me glad to have gotten up today (ok, ok, be woken up by my 18month olde). But the beauty is, as one post said, the door is a symptom. I dealt with a similar problem, 100yr. old house, doors as you described. Turns out that the doors were re/hung at various times when the house was variuosly not level, then a perimeter foundation was added and the house leveled, and all the doors were off to different degrees. The most _practical_ solution IMHO, was to deal with the door issue (and suggest the HO deal with the level issue should they choose, but that is their perogative). I pulled all the casing (ended up being easier just the strip it all than to strip one side and try to make it work) pulled the jambs out and just started as though it were a new hang. Results were as expected, good swings, reveals, etc. (and yes, a _little_ sanding/ planing was necessary in a few cases, mostly to handle carpets and a few small high spots in the floor). Good luck, doors are a pleasure on a good day.
> doors are a pleasure on a good day.Has there ever been a good day? (I've only hung a few doors, but always old work, in houses that have "character". Always a matter of compromise -- you fit them by the book and they don't work.)
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I agree with Jeff Buck, however, I have had similar situations with old doors and even older trim. Removing trim may not always be an option because attempting to remove trim may result in broken trim. In a perfect world Jeff Buck would be right.
If these are old wood doors and worth saving, you might consider stripping the doors. That will likely eliminate the need for the light planing to get the door to close properly.
Planing the hinge side will also work if you don't want to strip the door. As far as the bottom of the door goes, trimming it to be paralell with the floor is another little cheat to get around removing the trim.
Keep in mind this is a guesswork here. If I had some pictures I might be able to give you better advice here.
Dave