I’m thinking of building my kitchen counters and cabinet doors with Ipe. I have heard something about a yelow powder it can give off which is toxic. Is Ipe a bad idea for countertops where food is prepared? I would like them to be all wood, including around the sink. What is the best interior finish for Ipe. Is there a source of Ipe 1/4″ veneer board. I will be making a simple flat recess panel and frame door. I know about its very hard surface vis a vis milling but with the simplicity of my design I do not think it will be a problem.
Thanks.
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sulfer
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the yellow is a sulphur compound but I would bet theere are other biotoxins there also that help prevent rot. I wouldn't worry about it in cab doors with a good seal coat, but I wouldn't consider it for a countertop.
It is VERY hard on tools too though. The sulphur and stuff gums up with a wax resin on the cutting edges so you are constantly cleaning them. The dust is irritating to breathe so good dust collection is a must.
But the grain is very beautiful.
You can get same grain beauty in mahogany and avoid some of the downside of IPE`
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Thanks for your input. I wonder, if the counters are sealed with spar varnish or similar whether the sulphur etc. is an issue. Mahogany is a bit red. Maybe teak. I was also thinking of wood around the sink. Ipe appeals then. I am very aware of the issue re wood around sink yet I was looking through a japanese design book and was taken by a similar work stations entirely from wood. It is for my own kitchen so am not too worried about maintenance. Something I worry about for a client. Thanks again.
I've used Maple and ash around sinks with no trouble. Just seal end grain with epoxy.have you posted this subject over at Knots. Those guys from FWW know more about the exotic woods than we house erectors and remodelors do.
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Will do. Thanks.
You know, I'm suprised I didn't think to refer you to this website earlier:
http://www.brookswood.com/wood_countertops.htm
If ipe can or cannot be used, I'm sure they'd be able to tell you.
Mongo,
I always thought you were out west or something till I saw the link to Brooks and I checked your profile.
I used to deal with Richard a bit many years ago; he did quite a few solid surface counter tops for me. Quite a character!
You must not be far from me, our paths have likely crossed. I am in Putnam Co. , NY currently
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
Not too far removed, I'm in south-central CT.
It's been a couple years since I last talked to them which is why I forgot about referencing their site.
I almost figure that if they don't mention the wood as a possibility on their site, there's a reason it shouldn't be used.
http://www.woodweb.com/This can be another source for that kind of info.
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Thanks, piffin.
Lapacho dust - ipe lumber is from the Lapacho tree - ipe = Lapacho
huge majestic trees w/ yellow or purple flowers
In Paraguay where we lived they were highly prized for gate material, fence post and ox cart construction. Also the most popular carcineria ( meat market ) had a much used 20' cutting station of Lapacho,
Interesting....Now, I would suppose that the elements contained in IPE' that prevernt rot would also be likely to prevent the growth of the bacterium that spoil meat or transmit meat borne disease. That is good. but the question still remains in my mind whether those same elements are toxic to humans when consumed.Sulphur was used for treatment of wounds before penecillium came into common use.
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Sorry I'm getting in here a little late, but I too am thinking about using IPE as a countertop and had some of the same thoughts you do. As part of my research, I have contacted the distributor of the decking I have, and they tell me that the yellow on the boards is Lapaccho dust.
The rep I spoke with said that IPE is not toxic, but it can cause dermatitis in some people. He did specifically state that they don't recommend IPE for countertops, but was kind of vague on the reasons. I got the feeling it was because IPE is oily and they have some concern about it continuing to excrete oils. The guy I spoke with was real nice, but admitted he was out of his league. He was going to have their expert call me back on Monday and I will try to post more after I talk with him.
Steve
Excellent replies all. I'll refer you to my posting in Knots at FWW. There are various postings includinf from Brasil which you might find helpful. I look forward to any new info you get. Love the message boards.
They didn't have a whole lot of advice to offer when I was asking around a couple years ago...<g> Although I was asking about epoxy and teak, not ipe.
I'd like to think that someone over there would indeed know a bit more abut the "science" of ipe regardng the sulphur you boys were talking about.
I built a threshold of ipe, and coated it with fresh spar varnish (McCloskey's Man'O'War). The first coat took four days to dry enough to sand, at about 70 degrees. Subsequent coats acted normally. Looks great 18 months later.Bill
Thanks for the info Bill. Was this an exterior saddle? My concern is that checks in the surface will cause problems around a sink as well as bateria problems in a food prep area.
While I'd llike to set your mind at ease...all I can do is tell you what I've seen.
Granted, this is with teak, as I've never used ipe for a countertop.
Still, these woods are dense. Tight grain. Mother Nature packed these woods with enough of the good stuff to make insects want to stay away.
I could see green boards that are subject to an outside environment (decking) suffer end-grain checking.
But seasoned boards in the interior of a house? I've never seen anything. Never.
The end grain structure fof these exotics is tight, and I mean tight. The boards you get at the yard may have some slight end-checking that occured during the seasoning process (air seasoned or kiln dried)...just lop that part off.
If you used a flat-sawn plank that had highly pronounced cathedrals/valleys on the face of the plank, and you were glueing up the boards plank-style (edge-to-edge) to form a countertop, I could see the potential of one of those cathedrals/valleys raising or splintering off and possibly creating a pocket for trapped contaminants...but that can be easily avoided when you select your boards, or how you choose to use your boards in your project. Edge vs end-grain, for example.
Several posts ago piffin mentioned an epoxy wash on the end grain. You could do that if you had issues. I'd do that with a non-exotic species, but don't see the need with somthing like ipe or teak. Unless I chose green boards, or did poor fabrication, and ended up with checking in the end grain near the sink.
When we bu IPE` for decks, we get an end grain sealer they recommend for each cut. It is a heavy white latex, almost like rubber glue, that dries clear. It is part of their requirements for that lifetime warrantee at Ironwoods.The grain is definitely tight and heavy and full of good stuff and bad stuff (depending on whether you are an insect, fungus, or connesuir) but I get the impression that the open end cuts expose hollow tube structure of wood cells common to all wods to wich moisture in. Since this is a harder wood, it stands to ereason that the hollow structure of those cells is preserved when cured and will still suck water on some microscopic level.There is plenty of stuff (like my scientific terminology?) in the wood to resist rot, but wood still moves with water present, stressing joints, and in an exterior setting, that water can freeze and microfracture the wood.( I made up that word - microfracture - getting better at this, LOL)
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I haven't done an ipe deck in a few years.
I'm trying to remember...I think it was AnchorSeal I used to use on the end grain.
Not positive, though.
That sounds right..a white wax? Dries clear.I brushed some on some hiking shoes I was wearing at the time of an Ipe deck..really waterproofs the courdura or whatever the fabric was..neat stuff, wish I had some more.
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Yes, it is the doorsill on the entrance to our rental apartment. It is under a deep overhang, so is well-protected from sun and rain.Bill
How about teak?
The plank countertops are 8/4 thick and 30" deep.
The island cap is end-grain 5" thick butcherblock.
Mineral oil finish, water not a problem.
currently on project heading for maple countertops
but like that teak 30" deep / have info on supplier and cost
realize my best approach is this coast but you remember any particulars?
thanks John
8/4 teak runs me between $10.15 and $12.25, depending on how much I buy. I buy from two places:
General Woodcraft: http://www.generalwoodcraftinc.com/
St. Angelo Hardwood: http://stangelohardwoods.com/woodstreet/scripts/wsplist.pl?page=84teaklumber.htm
I usually but from GW, they're closer and they have a better selection...fewer boards, but better widths and lengths...and I can pick through the boards with no one frowning at me. GW's published price will be in the $15-$16 range, if you buy enough they'll give you the contractor price, about $4 less a bdft. St. Angelo's prices are the same regardless of being a DIY or a contractor.
For the pics that I posted, there were four pieces made (not all are in the pic):
1) Top "desktop" for a schoolroom work area, 8/4 by about 8' by 24"
2) Kitchen countertop, 8/4 by 30" deep and about 12' long w sink cutout
3) Kitchen countertop, 8/4 by 30" deep and 5'6" long
4) Kitchen butcherblock, 5" thick, about 3'3" by 4'.
I had enough wood left over to do a couple of stools for seating at the butcher block end cap.
I think it was around 185-190 bd ft total, and the price was about $2100 for the wood.
Also bought acetone, a gallon of West Systems, etc.
Easy wood to work with, I was very pleased with the results.
Found another pic that shows the butcher block during glue-up. I dry-assembled, then mixed the blocks around to get decent grain orientation and to mix the varying grain patterns evenly throughout the entire slab.
I then used the pieces of blue tape to grid-number each block.
I then acetone washed, epoxied, popped them in place, and clamped.
Belt sanded, then eased the edges with router, then ROS, then several applications of a mineral oil finish.
Edit: forgot to attach the pic...can't edit an attachment on to this post so see next post...
Edited 12/2/2004 9:29 am ET by Mongo
pic
Mongo very well done
many thanks John
Thanks for your reply. I am thinking of a similar setup with wood countertops. I will look into teak. That's quite a block. What did it weigh in the end?
I remember figuring the butcher block at about 60 bdft...that'd be 5 cuft. That meshes with the dimensions...about 3' by 4' by 5" thick, which also works to 5 cuft. What does teak weigh, about 40-45 lb/cuft? So, maybe 200-225lbs?
I have to say that when I actually figured out how much it really weighed, I was kind of disappointed. Dang, carrying it up the flight of stairs it sure seemed heavier than it was.
Might have been the epoxy. Could it be that I used 180 pounds of epoxy in that thing?
The long countertop was heavier, that clocked in at 72 bdft, 6 cuft, and 240-270lbs. Not counting the epoxy.<g>
MrCoux,
I just spoke with the distributor, and they say that people have used Ipe for counters, but they don't recommend it because most of the IPE in the country is air dried to 14%, but needs to be dried to 8% to be stable in a house. The distributor said that if you can get a third party to run the IPE in their kiln, it would work, but by the time you figure in your costs, you might be looking at the same numbers as granite.
As for the dust, they told me that this isn't toxic or carcinigenic, but that it could react with water to give the surface redish streaks. Other things to keep in mind is that you need to use epoxy to glue the boards together, and the counter does need to be sealed.
Hope this helps.
Steve
Great info. Thank-you very much.
Thanks for sharing the buzz
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