I’m working on an estimate for an 800′ sf deck that is to be resurfaced: The old PT 2×6 decking will be taken up and replaced with Ipe.
Anyone have any advice they’d be willing to share?
How far apart should it be spaced in a dry climate?
What kind of screws do you recommend?
How much more time should I add for Ipe over regular cedar or treated wood? I’m guessing at least another 50%…?
Ahhrrghh! Search first, you dummy (me)
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=90729.1
After reading some of the posts, I’m inclined to think it’ll take more like twice as long or more. Also, what’s this end sealer I’m reading about?
I have CDO.
It’s like OCD, only the letters are in alphabetical order like they’re supposed to be.
http://www.truenorthcarpentry.net
Edited 11/15/2008 7:15 pm by True North
Replies
We use Anchor Seal which is almost like a wax for sealing. Time wise you probably can't add enough for the frustration and messing around with screws. At least triple. And it's heavy.
John
I discovered how heavy it really is when a bundle of Ipe dropped on my thumb. Golly, but it hurt! I actually said something a little different than "Golly"! It is beautiful stuff though. Pre-drill, and have lots of high quality bits.
Get high quality stainless steel screws, and predrill. The Ipe will snap anything less than ss screws. I use trim heads, and don't cap them, but some people want the capped look. I think if you line your fasteners up with some care, there's no need to hide them.
Set up a drill with your predrill rig and use your impact driver to sink them. Get high quality driver bits, too- cheap ones will shatter and you'll gouge the wood or yourself.
Or look into the fastening systems, FHB had a review of some of them a while back.
Budget for blade dulling/ slow cutting.
I also found the dust irritating to my skin, and wore long sleeves. (But I think I'm psychosomatically inclined).
It comes out sweet, though. Worth the hassle. Have fun.
k
definitely pre-drill and buy tons of extra saw blades, as far as the finish goes, I really can't help as usually I move on after the deck is built and leave finish/stain for the painters
I have however left about 1000 broken screws in planks because I didn't pre-drill, and burnt my through planks because I figured just the 5 blades would be enough..ipe is some unbelievably hard material...
All I ever wanted in life was an unfair advantage...
"I have however left about 1000 broken screws in planks because I didn't pre-drill, and burnt my through planks because I figured just the 5 blades would be enough..ipe is some unbelievably hard material..."strange - I can do a three thousand foot deck with one blade, but would not think of trying to skip the predrill. I'll bet I spend far less time drilling than you do dealing with cleaning up all those snapped off screws. I only need to deal with 4-5 for your thousand.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Again predrill, I found these fuller bits at a local supplier. They countersink but the pilot bit is larger than normal so the screw doesnt bind in the ipe and snap off.
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=11812
To me it seems spacing more than a 16d nail is too much. Face screws are fine as long as they are lined up carefully and are probably the strongest option. Swan secure while expensive may be the best ss screw out there.
better than the fuller bits are those ones with the collar... advertised in JLC...sold at _______& Mc Feeley'syou need the specific countersink / bit combination... and the sell extra bits with teh toolcan't remember the name... anyways.. we've used lots of countersink/ bit setups... and that is the one that works best... far & awayMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks for the info, Im always looking for tools that work better.
I've used the Swansecure. They are OK, but too many break off. The GRK ss trimheads have about a fourth as many break off.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
My thanks to everyone for all the good advice.@ Snort: I am a little uncomfortable about using a tropical hardwood for a deck due to environmental issues, but my potential client already has it stacked in his garage. I figure I might as well do the best work I can to ensure it's not wasted. It probably isn't something I'd recommend when there are so many good alternatives out there.Thanks again.I have CDO.It's like OCD, only the letters are in alphabetical order like they're supposed to be.http://www.truenorthcarpentry.net
If your client already has it stacked in their garage are they handy?
I would have them coat all 6 sides of every board with Penofin Tropical hardwood formula. Then you can use anchor seal on the cut ends.
The penofin will make the deck look like fine furnature and it lasts a lot longer than the other brand we've tried SunFrog-stay away from that garbage.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Exactly what I did. 4 years later in the NE close to the ocean and it still looks great.
I can admit I stand corrected cause I have used a lot of the GRK trimheads for all kinds of things and love them, I like the torx drive best, much less slippage. I have not used the full head S.S. GRK's but can understand that they would be better. I have also used the Fastap stainless but the tip design is a annoyance in some situations when fastening into less than 1 1/2, I think its made to kinda predrill the hole which seems to leave less for the threads to grab. Although that doesnt happen too often.Edited 11/18/2008 12:48 am ET by bluejae
Edited 11/18/2008 12:48 am ET by bluejae
Naturally the full heads would be better, but I was comparing trimhead GRKs to trimhead swans, both same size.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Gotcha. Do you face screw those, or do you use them with a hidden system. Does anyone else face screw with fin head screws? I built one small deck a few years ago face screwed with fin head and like the look, but have used full head when face screwing since due to my own concern over lack of strength and cause the GC I work for wont let us. I'd sure like to hear some long term durability experiences.
Edited 11/18/2008 9:24 pm ET by bluejae
all face screwed.This curved one must be almost ten years old nowThe straight run, maybe 4-5 years. No problems with ice tearing it up at all.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yeah but will it stand up to the "weather" here in central cali? :) Thats good to hear. I dont care much for hidden systems, and am going to try to push the face fastened fin screw now.
Nice work Piffin--
We always use the stainless biscuits with stainless screws.
We have steered away from Ipe since it is a protected species in favour of tigerdeck which comes kiln dried and pre-grooved for biscuits.
LGardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it! Decks Blog
Got any pics of tigerwood projects? I need something that's not plastique, and sounds exotic, but doesn't rape anybody.http://www.tvwsolar.com
Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"
http://decks-fences.blogspot.com/search?q=tigerdeck
There are only a couple of photos posted so far...
Hope that helps. They are clickable.
LGardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it! Decks Blog
Hey Lawrence, That does help, thanks... and nice, informative web site.http://www.tvwsolar.com
Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"
Nice work on your site as well Snort--IT gives a good snapshot of your business ethic and persona. Any client will be impressed upon viewing.
It sure is hard to get folks to de-clutter for photography huh? That's why I like to work outside... folks don't mind if you move things for photos.
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it! Decks Blog
Usually it's my stuff in the way!http://www.tvwsolar.com
Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"
we face screw with grk.... and we predrill with SmartBitMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Just a little something else to think about when working with ipe...
http://www.fsc-watch.org/archives/2007/08/22/SmartWood_misled_US_local_authority_over_FSC_timber
google illegal ipe harvesting, lots more where that came from.
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"
I've used Swansecure as well with no problem, occasionally one will snap or twist, keep good vise grips and front end nippers handy.
I've used the 2 1/4" #7 square drive trim head screw. (you can get them in a variety of colors now too).
Get extra #2 square drive bits and have multiple screw guns with the extra batteries charged. I actually ended up using my magnum corded drill after a while.
Anchorseal is the end sealer of choice around these parts.
You might want to consider vycor or I&W shield over the joists too.
I personally never space more than 16" O.C. for anything.
Why would you use vycor or I&W over the joists? Is there some reaction between the ipe and pt wood?
No not for chemical reaction purposes, just saw it in a tip on deck building somewhere (maybe john hyatt). Just gives further long term protection to the joists. I have used up leftover I&W on built-up beams and as flashing between the house and ledger (though I always space ledgers from the house as well.
Edited 11/17/2008 5:28 pm ET by TGNY
Hey Toni, "I've used Swansecure as well with no problem, occasionally one will snap or twist, keep good vise grips and front end nippers handy."This little baby is the best for getting out stripped stainless trim heads... does a number on any other screw, too.http://www.getgrabit.com/Default.asp?tcode=asp3&bhcp=1So when are we going back to the Bahamas? Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"
Hey Holly, long time no speak! Hope all is well with you and Sherry.Does that really work well? You know I've always had bad luck using extractors on automotive repair, but I'll give it a try.The Bahamas project is on hold, a victim of the credit crunch among other reasons. I went 18 times in 18 months, but I'm overdue for a Caribbean visit. I might be going down in Feb. if there is any money left, but I hear the hotels are laying off people big time as tourism has seen a steep decline, so vacations may be cheap then. Off to India at the end of the month though.BTW, I'm not sure if Sherry knows, but tell her the 2014 Winter Olympics are being held in Sochi.
Oh, she knows about the festivities, just has to practice up on her Stoli slurpping.So'd you ever get over to Hope Town? No hi rises, but a cool light house.And yes, that Grabit is one of those gimicks that really does work, saved my butt more times than I can count. Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"
I like the DeckMaster undermount system if you have room to work underneath. A ton of screws, but you don't have to predrill or fill, so you time may end up about the same -- and fasteners are all out of sight.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
My experience with Swan and GRK matches Piffin's.
AitchKay
Does anyone have any tips on working with Anchorseal? I googled it and came up with some homeowner complaints about workers spilling it on the wood. What's the best way to apply it?Thanks to everyone for all the help.I have CDO.It's like OCD, only the letters are in alphabetical order like they're supposed to be.http://www.truenorthcarpentry.net
anchorseal - i would just look at it as a heavy paint
I like to coat each end up to a half inch in and yes you will see that residue for many yrs out but you know it is working
spilling is to be avoidedI have fashioned hand railings of say 2 X 4 or 2 X 6 ipe rounded routed etc and have coated them w/ anchorseal & if there is some time before client use to cure it gives a kinda handrubbed furniture paste finishboard spacing was touched on - i go for more spacing - my fav is to break one of those app. 12" plastic carpenter squares in a couple pieces cuz you always need at least two spacers and they provide the edge bigger than the spacing edge ( pretty spacey explanation )some of my first clients 30 + yrs ago put on a big party to celebrate their new deck & wanted me to be there - i showed up w/ the caveat I would bartend
a 75 yr olde timberbaron dame gets her high heel stuck in between the boards 7 i'm a bit horrified - the homeowner fortunately comes to her aide and after mixing her drink & sending her on her way says to me no one has any business coming to a deck party w/ high heels on anywayspace them wide - breathes , more forgiving modern mills don't seem to cut as uniformly and as straight as ipe is gives you more latitude in getting each and every line rightone thing I have noticed about ipe is it gets bigger in the summer here in the PavNW - not smaller w/ sun & heat - hard to imagine but yes it is true
I watched I guy on TV use SS 15 gauge trim nails, so that makes me an expert. He spaced them with the trim nails.
"...so that makes me an expert..."Of course it does. How do you think I got to my high standing in life? ; )I have CDO.It's like OCD, only the letters are in alphabetical order like they're supposed to be.http://www.truenorthcarpentry.net
I have had a lot of luck with #7 SS screws and a 9/64 drill bit. A smaller drill and you will spend years on the installation pulling out broken screws with vise grips. I have finished with Messers (which all the IPE suppliers seem to recommend) but in Cinncinati th ewood still grays in 6 months. I am searching for a btter finish.
I was pretty happy with Penofin in Maryland, which should be pretty similar to Cincinnati climate wise.First few years coat it every year. After that, maybe every two years. Also depends on how much sun exposure you have. We had a lot.
I just finished a smallish deck (400sf)with ipe. I used exposed star screws (supplied by owners)and pre-drilled with a Smart-bit. I found I could not use a regular countersink because it would not clear the material at the edge of the hole. I was having to go back with a chisel and knock of the "swollen" part Try to get the new Smart-bit with the replaceable drill bit because you will go through a few.The wood was plenty expensive and I can only imagine if I used one of the hidden fastening systems what the labor would be. All I can say is I was happy I was working time and materials
The anchor seal is like a really thick paint and must be placed on any cuts to stop checking. You do not want to spill it as it is paraffin and is quite slippery.