We have a 14 year old well pump. It works perfectly almost all the time. We water a lot from this well, it runs about 12 hours a day keeping our little National Forest healthy. It’s a great well with 20 feet of head over the pump and water level tests done several years ago revealed the level drops only 6 inches during continuous pumping.
At about 6 in the morning it has begun a new trick. The pump will fade, or stop pumping altogether, then resume. At least, as far as I know it only happens at this time of day.
Yesterday I filled a small backyard pond which requires the pump run for two hours under no pressure delivering more water than when running the sprinklers for the general watering.
I have listened to the pressure switch and it is not the reason for this fading trick, it is not clicking on and off because I have the sprinkler load arranged to run the pump continuously.
So, oh great well pump gurus, is it time for a new pump? Is this some sort of resetting overload protection in the pump itself?
Thanks,
Lee
Replies
What's the condition of the expansion tank?
The condition of the pressure tank is excellent. It's in the crawl space and works great.Lee
You pumping sand? Any filters involved?
No filters to the sprinkles, the household water is clean so no, no sand.Lee
What kind of pump? Submersible, jet, piston, ???
Brand, type control, voltage, 2 wire, 4 wire???? etc...
too many variables otherwise.
So far the symptoms stated are only:
stop pumping altogether, then resume
Has the pump been off all night? Is there power draw when not pumping (e..g. lost seal on foot valve) of just 'off'?
Give us some more details, and the cause will probably be apparent to you also.
Check the control box for corrosion or intermittent contacts besides the pressure switch.
What kind of pump? SubmersibleBrand, type control, voltage, 2 wire, 4 wire???? etc... I think it's Jacuzzi, 2 wire. 240 volt, 3/4 horse The control is the pressure switch attached to the pressure tank.Has the pump been off all night? No, by the time it's doing this trick it's been running continuously for 2 hours after a 30 minute rest, 5 hours before that. Flawlessly as far as I know.Is there power draw when not pumping (e..g. lost seal on foot valve) of just 'off'? I don't know about the power draw, but the foot valve is good, it does not have to refill the lines when the pump comes back on and sometimes the water does not stop altogether, it loses pressure then resumes after a few seconds. Other times the water stops altogether, then resumes after a 30 seconds or so. It's never off for long.Give us some more details, and the cause will probably be apparent to you also.Check the control box for corrosion or intermittent contacts besides the pressure switch. It looks good and the pressure switch is not opening and closing during this event, it's closed as it should be.Lee
There are lots of possibilities, but if your pump has been running 12 hrs/day for 14 years, I would bet that it's about worn out.
Are you pumping into a collection tank or just running the pump when you need water? The systems I'm familiar with (rural homes and ranches) all have large storage tanks (5,000 - 10,000 gal.). When the tank level drops to a preset level, the pump switches on, refills the tank, then shuts off until the level drops again.
No collection tank, just running as we need it. We pump like this for only 4 months of the year, we're in Montana.Lee
I'm heading to town, be back this afternoon to answer any questions.Thanks guys,Lee
If it only happens in the morning I'd suspect a voltage dip.
I'm thinking his neighbor has tapped into his line...
And flushing his toilet!Hah, hah, ha...,Lee
*bump*
AH so, this did happen to me once, as in it loses pressure then resumes after a few seconds.
In my case, it was about only one second. The cause was the air pressure in the pressure tank became slightly higher than the pressure switch cut in pressure (wear on pressure switch, spring relaxation, never did diagnose the precise cause of that part of it)
Anyway, the pressure tank would go empty of water but not of air, would stop water flow, then the pressure switch would cut in and the water would start immediately. However, this could happen any time of the day, and by the time it was really noticeable, it did it every pressure cycle.
Try releasing a little air from your pressure tank.
Lee,
I'll give you a few possibilities....
Early morning problem might be due to a lot of your neighbors using their wells and watering during the night hours. The water table is low until it can build back, so the pump may be pumping out more than the recovery ability of the well. Pinching back on the hose(s) lowers the gallons per minute and the water stream returns.
The second thing could be the pump bearing. Either bearings on the motor end and/or the pump's end. Sitting still during the night, water seeps into worn seals and bearing. As the pump starts things are fine. Then one set of bearings heat up and cause a drag factor and the water pressure fades. Standing by your pressure tank, you'll be able to barely hear the sound of the pump changing pitches as the RPM sags and tries to come back to normal.
Last, it could be your control box. Usually, if it's a 220v pump, the pump won't work if one of the electrical legs drops. With the electrical power OFF, check for tight electrical connections, and look to see the contacts on one side shows arc burns.
Bill
How's the water table? It will take time to recover if you're sucking bottom.
Filters?
Jets need replacing? (if that type)
New tank? Bladder or air? Air under pressure can infuse eventually into water.
Sounds like it runs a lot.
You have a softener attached? If so, is that in proper order, salts & filters changed etc?
Thanks everyone.Ruthie and I are leaving for a few days, I'll follow up when we return.This event is truly an anomaly, it didn't happen this morning or last evening as I drank beer and CAREFULLY watched three impact sprinklers work perfectly.It's not the pressure switch, when it faded yesterday I ran to the crawl space to listen for the unmistakable *clack* it makes as the contacts close. There was no clack as Ruthie hollered the water came back on.Sucking air? I don't think so, I had the flow and levels checked by a well drilling buddy a few years ago and after a six pack (for us) pumping with no resistance the water level had dropped only six inches with twenty feet of water over the pump itself. The casing is 120 feet deep, the pump is at 100 feet and the water level in the casing is at 80 feet.Thanks again folks, see ya in a few days,Lee
at 100' why not pull the pump and replace it if in doubt...easy enough to do.
otherwise get an inductive DVM and set it to record min max for the pump draw I've upped my standards...now up yours
If there are others in the same "basin" who are pumping, then the fact that your one pump can't draw it down is not indicative of what happens when all the pumps in the basin fire up.
You could be "downstream" hydraulically from another pump or pumps, and only seeing low head hours after their use.
The time period you are describing is when, on a pipe fed large system, is the peak morning demand period, when everyone is first up, getting ready for work, and making breakfast.
You might try a draw down test to coincide with the time frame when the pump is shutting down.
Also, as I've suggested, check the line voltage during that period.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
But IF he's drawing down the water table, then he sucks air. He hasn't made any comment about blowing air out of his sprinklers.
I've drawn down the table in the past. Air comes out of your faucets when that happens.
The most influential thing on flow from a pump, is the total dynamic head that it sees. The pump has a design curve that it runs most efficiently on. He normally has 6-inches of draw down, with his pump running full out.
If the water table has been drawn down 18-feet, he still has cover over the pump, and it won't pull air, but may be far enough from it's curve, (which changes over time as the pump wears), that the pump can't produce much volume. The total static head has changed the 18-feet, which is about 40-psi. So, if his pump normally produces 50-psi, he now has 10-psi. The dynamic head is down a little because the flow rate has dropped of, so it takes less energy to move the water through the piping.
If the water table is recovering, the pump will recover, and come back into the curve, and begin flowing at it's designed rate.
His problem comes down to three possibilities: There is insufficient water to keep the pump in the "envelope"; there is a power drop in the feed to the pump which keeps it from making the required horsepower; or, the pump itself is bad.
If he has a bad power feed, it shouldn't be cyclic based on the time of day, unless there is a voltage drop on the incoming line caused by high use.
Generally when the pump or plumbing are bad, they are bad. They might have intermittent failures, but it shouldn't be periodic and happen at about the same time every day.
If he is in the mountains, the subsurface basins can be very small and subject to quite a bit of draw down over short periods of time. It is kind of a unique situation, where the surface runoff is dropping underground and you have essentially a slow moving hidden stream, with intermittent pools. I worked on a mountain village water system where we needed more capacity, and drilled a new well. Most times it delivered wonderfully. But starting Saturday at about noon, when the impact of the off-system weekend users hit the aquifer, until Monday at about nine or ten in the morning, we could have sucked it dry if we hadn't of had water surface sensors hooked into the operating logic.
Hey guys, we're back home.The pump is still working.I'll keep an eye on it and do a few low tech tests but in the end I suspect it's a pump issue more than water table or voltage drop. We'd notice a voltage drop in the house and this aquifer is not stressed at all.Thanks folks, I'll let you know if anything comes of this.Lee
Look at the specs for the pump and see what the max head is. I kinda suspect that it's getting near the max head after you draw things down a bit and is cavitating.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin