How is this, morally?
1. the crook that stole it doesn’t profit from it
2. the pawn shops don’t profit from it
3. original owner is paying the “stupid tax” for not id’ing his tools
our local police just started using this service, instead of having semiannual auctions:
tools are under ‘home and garden’ category
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Replies
Call me a cynic, but several questions come to mind:
Did the police make an honest effort to find the original owners? If I had tools stolen, the police would certainly know what I lost and how they could find me. Maybe what they need is a central database where those ripped-off could search all local towns for their stuff.
Who gets the money? General fund or police department? Our police once tried to get speeding ticket money funneled directly into the department. Slick, huh?
How could those using this site possibly hope to net more for the taxpayers than using eBay?
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
for us, here is where the money will go: "Local children benefit most from the sale of the stolen goods. Every penny of profit the Raleigh Police Department makes goes to the Wake County School System."stuff is still sold, this just makes it more efficientone thing I like about the site is that you can register your own serial numbers for stolen items...if it shows up there (auction by police), you can get it back.Would be nice if ebay had a required entry field for serialized items, and cross-referenced this (or another publicized) list of stolen s/n's.
Are you asking if gov't auctions are OK, morally? Speaking as a repeat victim of other people's stupidity and lack of respect for someone else's property, I don't have a problem with these if the police, FBI, etc have tried to get the property back to its rightful owner. However, there's nothing that says the property was recovered before the insurance settlement (if any) was paid. If the items were found in the posession of the dirtbag, unless he/she has had them for a long time (which would be really stoopid), a lot of them will be returned.
If it's a one-of-a-kind item, they should keep trying. If it's a common item, the victim can get another one, no major attachment should exist. I know there are cases of "I got it from_______ and it means a lot to me". It's a tool, not a family member.
They can't keep this stuff forever, so they may as well try to get something for it to keep from having to collect more from the taxpayers for operational expenses. Not everything sold by pawnshops is hot. In Milwaukee, any time an item is pawned or traded in, a card is filled out and sent to the police. It has a description, model #, serial # and the name/number/etc of the person who brought it in. If someone steals something and wants to get rid of it in a hurry, they're not going to a pawn shop. The dumb ones may, but the ones who do it for a living don't.
If you were asking if it's OK to buy hot tools from "someone who knows a guy", I don't even want to talk to you.
I don't see anything wrong with it, although were I to buy something through it and somehow discover the true owner, I might toss and turn a few extra minutes before going to sleep.
One wonders of course, whether there might be a temptation for the seizing agency to go light on the efforts to find the true owner if that agency itself gets the proceeds, but I'm not sure how much we are required to be "our brothers' keepers."
I doubt if many police would outright skip that step, but I think it would be human nature to decide a bit earlier than otherwise that "enoughs enough" when looking for the owner.
And that slope can get slippery.
I don't know about yours, but my church isn't a hotel for the holy, it's a hospital for sinners
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Police don't care about minor property crimes. Sure, they'll send out and officer and write up a report, but beyond that most will just let the victims take it up with their insurance company.
I'm of the opinion that stealing property is essentially the same as stealing part of someone's life, but our laws and judges don't see it that way anymore. They used to hang petty thieves after their third offense -- now they just put them on probation and let the insurance companies deal with the aftermath.
Police "auctions" now often include confiscated property. This is a new, legalized form of theft where some government agency takes away real property and then uses the property or proceeds from its sale for their operations. Yes, a lot of the stuff seized was owned by drug dealers, but a lot of mistakes are being made too. Many honest folks are losing property with no recourse -- very wrong IMO.
Edited 12/22/2004 1:50 pm ET by TJK
Reminds me of a bicycle store owner who was an advocate of getting stolen bikes back.
He would regularly take his list of stolen bikes people told him about and find many of them ready to be auctioned off by the cops. Police reports and all. Ever hear once of someone getting their property back from a theft via the cops?
Either there's a glitch in their software that doesn't allow them to cross reference serial numbers or they don't care.
As pro law enforcment as I am they aren't the most friendly group of guys. Too much of their fraternal "us against them" nonsense.
Geez I'm glad i don't have to belong to group to feel good about myself.
Cor.
I was amused to see at least a dozen grow lights for sale. Once sold (by the PD!), what will they be used for? Growing tomatos? Not.
Didn't that just happen somewhere in Ontario? The cops busted a grow op using the same setup they've busted 2 or 3 times already, but they figure they'll auction it off, and the buyer pays cash......
These guy's keep talking about the ethics of stealing and/or selling tools while you and I have our minds in the gutter over grow lights.
From the website (emphasis mine):
The rightful owners are not easily identified, and once property is no longer needed as evidence, it must be disposed of properly..
It's not easy. This is the qualifier with which I have a problem. Just how hard are the cops trying to return the stolen property to its rightful owners?
Yeah, I know -- the proceeds are going to the children..... yeah, right. I've heard that one too many times to not be cynical.
Instead of having the cops sell this stuff off, why not just have the cops donate the property to charities? At least that way, the conflict of interest would be minimized.
Edited 12/22/2004 3:36 pm ET by ragnar
Who would want to benefit from someone else's misfortune? Moral or not.