I’m pretty much convinced this can’t really be done properly…but then again who said I know everything? So here’s the quandry:
Client is moving out of her apartment and into her chalet. She wants me to install the dishwashing machine from the apartment under the counter in the kitchen of the chalet. No big deal so far…
But the only spot available is at one end of this el-shaped counter/cab unit, which was custom-built by a pretty decent woodworker who, unfortunately, didn’t take into account the standard widths of appliances when he designed the cabs. So, first problem is, there’s no single door/cabinet opening wide enough for the dishwasher, which means removing one cab door and cutting down the adjoining one (and what that means is building a new, narrower door, as they are riaised-panel rail & stile doors.)
(The alternative is removing one door/cab and extending the countertop to cover the extra width (see below).)
It also means I’m going to have to try to take apart the ‘face frame’ and re-build it in place. As I said, these cabs weren’t built as carcasses; they were made as built-ins and are essentially part of the kitchen itself.
The second problem is the countertop. At the place where the machine has to slide under it, it has a drop-recess built into it to take a butcher-block 2″ thick. So there’s a whole structure under that recess to support it, and that means there’s not enough clearance for the machine. I’m missing a good inch or more.
In addition, it’s an old Arborite countertop which was laminated in place when the cabs were built. I cannot remove it from the cabs themselves as it is part of them. (Even if I could, it’s an L-shaped counter, and the joint in the substrate was covered when the builder glued on the Arborite.)
So to cut it, I’m going to have to find a way to cut it in place, right up against a tile backsplash.
Short of scrapping the entire cabinet & counter set except the doors themselves, I think it can’t be done. At least not and come up with an acceptably professional result.
What do you guys think? Anybody got a very sharp jackknife and lotsa patience…?
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice….
Replies
Dino-
You can do it.
be yes you can
half of good living is staying out of bad situations
Edited 5/19/2006 2:03 pm ET by rez
You can do it.
be yes you can
Yeah, the title of this thread is misleading. Of course it can be done. The real question is, is it worth it?
I've already told her once I didn't think it was; she accepted that for a month and then started wheedling me again. This is a good, 10-year client whom I like a lot...so I want to make her happy. But I've got a feeling she's shooting herself in the foot with this one....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
"The real question is, is it worth it?"
Taking the old one out , no its not . You didnt mention if she is a milllionaire or not.
I buy brand new dishwashers for 186.00 for small spec houses and rentals. Youve already got more time thinking about it than that .
A new one in the chalet , yes you can. As mentioned there are table top washers. I would take the counter out . If you can cut it and bring it back in fine . If you cant she gets a new counter top of her choosing . A jap handsaw will cut the styles off a guide of Oak. Square it up somewhere and end it for a side wall after the styles are out. A cabinet shop will make you a new door. The washer will cover the face styles by 3/8s of an inch so you aint building a piano. The only thing left is matching stain if there is such and a pro paint shop can do that off the old door. A repo saw will cut the bottom out and remember the side panel will cover it with base trim doing the same for the front . Ive been there several times but its expensive .
She can decide if she would rather have a rolling portable .
Tim
I used to install dishwashers professionally for a big appliance retailer. There used to be a dishwasher made by GE. Model number was PDW8800. It was only 22 inches tall. Made for Europe, it was a real nice machine, stainless steel inside, solidly built. Cost was about $800
She can decide if she would rather have a rolling portable .
Almost the first suggestion I made after we determined it wasn't just gonna slide in there.
But.
She agrees with me that rolling portable dishwashers are worse than doing the washing-up by hand.
A cabinet shop will make you a new door.
Nope. I do that myself.
The washer will cover the face styles by 3/8s of an inch so you aint building a piano. The only thing left is matching stain if there is such and a pro paint shop can do that off the old door.
True enough; it ain't a pinano. Don't need Herr Boësendorfer on this one.
Matching the stain will be the hard part as there isn't any, just a few coats of oil-based poly 'varnish' plus 15 years worth of patina. They are a lovely mellow dirty-golden-yellow which nothing coming out of a can is gonna match until another 15 years have gone by. But I'm lousy at stain-matching anyway. I oughta give Goldhiller a shout on that if it comes to it....
Ive been there several times but its expensive .
Yeah, I know. And she's not a millionaire, just a very nice lady who's retiring on a few savings plus a small pension. Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
..."And she's not a millionaire, just a very nice lady who's retiring on a few savings plus a small pension."
Dino -
I think that's a big part of your problem. You are trying to help her out - in a way that is financially unfavorable for your business. Not good. No, change that - not good if you are trying to make money.
Decide how much of your time you are willing to devote to her project for nominal remuneration, then back track from there. If you want to redo all of the cabinets so that the DW fits, that's a wonderful thing. Just recognize that you are working for peanuts on that job. Accept it and move on.
Been there, done that.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
I think that's a big part of your problem. You are trying to help her out - in a way that is financially unfavorable for your business. Not good. No, change that - not good if you are trying to make money.
I can easily see this thread taking a philosphical turn from here, LOL.
Yes, I'm trying to make money (and you know where it's all going...), but I'm also trying to do two other things simultaneously:
1. Help out a good, long-term customer who has trusted me with tens of thousands of dollars of her work over the years; and
2. Preserve my professional reputation as an honest and ethical professional who looks more to the long-term relationship than to a quick roll in the hay with the client's bankbook.
While walking that tripartite tightrope might be tricky from time to time, I think it's worth the effort in the long run. This is one of those tricky times. What I'm really looking for is a way to do this job for her without screwing either one of us.
If such a way exists.
Like I said at the beginning of this thread, I'm more than half-convinced it can't be done, but I'm willing to learn something new today that I can use next week....Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Narrow dishwasher, Sears Kenmore, plus she gets here Sears Points.
New 3/4" butcher block?
New 3/4" butcher block?
No, 2". Her BIL is a commercial salesman for a high-end butcher-block manufacturer and brought her a 5'x2' piece that was rejected due to too much colour variation in the wood. Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
"Matching the stain will be the hard part as there isn't any, just a few coats of oil-based poly 'varnish' plus 15 years worth of patina. They are a lovely mellow dirty-golden-yellow which nothing coming out of a can is gonna match until another 15 years have gone by. But I'm lousy at stain-matching anyway. I oughta give Goldhiller a shout on that if it comes to it...."
Yer not listening , lol.
Take it to a good SW or Pitt store and they will match that too. Been there done it but then thats what I did fer as long time . I cant count the times but one time was on a church that got a tornado tree through the old beam ceiling . They said they couldnt see it but they didnt fix it . I could see it but it was a good match. I worked it too with a feather brush.
Tim
I hope it won't, but if it gets to the point where I have to fabricate new cabinet parts, I'll try having the original colour scanned and some stain custom mixed to match it. I'll have to see if the local SW dealer can deal with stain mixes; normally they only do paint up here. If I have to go to Montréal for it, it's gonna cost her more than hiring a maid to wash the dishes for a solid year by hand....Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
"If I have to go to Montréal for it, it's gonna cost her more than hiring a maid to wash the dishes for a solid year by hand...."
I feel better now .
Tim
"Yeah, I know. And she's not a millionaire, just a very nice lady who's retiring on a few savings plus a small pension. "
What are we gonna do with you? <G> Just remember what MS always says ,... lets say it , all together now ,
"Its their dream . Never ever put your money in it ." That includes free time my friend. You could be working for someone else down the street instead of her . So then let her have her dream and she will be prouder of it with a healthy price tag on it that was attached fairly.
IMO, the number one reason contractors dont return calls is reasons just like this one instead of pricing the work accordingly.
Dear Missus old lady with a small pension,
You may think you are having problems with your cash flow but I have to make money to help bring my boy home. Thats number one with me . With that said ,...
Tim
Dear Missus old lady with a small pension,
You may think you are having problems with your cash flow but I have to make money....
This 'missus old lady' once hired me to build fifteen storm sashes and a new door for her verandah.
The December day my second carp and I went to install them it was cold and windy, and the window openings were all from 5/8"-1" different sizes and none of them were square. The final fitting of those things took us hours in the cold with the wind howling through the screens. Our hands were red and frozen; the wind kept blowing the sawdust into our faces, and we were working in a crowded 7'-wide space trying to plane and fit 4'x6' 4-lite storms.
As it got on towards 4 o'clock it got dark, and we had to work by the light of a single, 60-watt yellow 'bug light' in the ceiling. Inside the house, on the other side of the kitchen windows, we could see that missus old lady with two of her children and five of her grandchildren, sitting down to supper around a big old farm-kitchen table, eating bowls of soup served from a big pot on the wood cook-stove in the corner.
The door to the kitchen opened and she came out. "Come on inside, boys," she said. "I've got some nice hot soup for you if you'd like some."
We went in gratefully, and she moved kids and grands over to make room for us and served us steaming bowls of yellow pea soup with homemade bread and pickles.
You could be working for someone else down the street instead of her
Yeah. I could. Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Damn Dino, I dont see you post much but you still reduce every post down to a single common denominator, FOOD!
I dont have the answer for you on this one but good for you trying to take care of an old customer, and still make a couple bucks for your self.
Others are throwing out ideas about a different dishwasher so heres mine; have you ever seen those dishwashers that fit under the sink, course this is going to cost a few bucks, different sink, labor to install (its a tough fit but doable) and I'm sure the DW cost a premium.
So upon reflection, my idea is a bad one, disregard it. Realy I just wanted to talk to you about the food thing!
Doug
You know what they say: The way to a man's heart is through his stomach, LOL.
In my book, a bowl of soup given on a cold day adds a lot of positive weight to one's karma....
I'm starting to think the best solution to her problem is going to be to sell the one she's got on e-bay or something, and buy an 18" wide model from Sears which I might be able to fit in under the counter right next to the sink. The drop-in butcher block recess is down at the end of that leg of the counter. It might work.
That would mean I don't have to touch the countertop but would only have to carefully cut out a stile or two and narrow them down some.Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Dino,
You know for sure that the counter is too low. You know the easy openings are too narrow. Is this counter depth standard?
Ron
You know for sure that the counter is too low. You know the easy openings are too narrow. Is this counter depth standard?
!
That does it! I'm going in for an Alzheimer's test just as soon as I can remember the name of my doctor....
It looks and feels standard, Ron. If it's off, it's not off by more than an inch or I'd have noticed. I don't bang my knuckles nor strain my back reaching across it for the light switches on the wall. But I never measured the depth, or at least I don't remember doing so. Once I found out there wasn't enough height under that recess to slide in the unit, I stopped looking for any other problems. Duh....Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
As I recall, the standard for Alzheimers is:If you forget where your keys are, you are like the rest of us.If you forget what keys are for, you are in trouble.
And if you forget why it matters, it doesn't....
...huh?Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Dinosaur, you gotta start writing novels, forget construction. stinky
Would taking the leveling feet/brackets (if possible) off the DW give you enough additional clearance? As far as the cabinet work goes doesn't sound impossible by any means. If you can detach the face frame cleanly why not just cut it cleanly where you need to and reassemble it using a Kreg jig or the like? Maybe some refinishing or touchup but...
I've read your threads...you can do this D. Just charge enough for all the BS ;)
Would taking the leveling feet/brackets (if possible) off the DW give you enough additional clearance?
Not quite. The butcher-block cutting board in that drop-in recess is 2" thick, so that lowers the underside of the countertop by a bit over that amount. Leveller feet usually protrude about ½-¾" when screwed up hard against the frame, so that's the max I could get by yanking them.
I did think of jacking up the entire counter, cabs and all, by enough to slide that thing in there. And I'd do it, too, if the cabs were carcasses sitting on toe kicks like normal cabinets. But these are built-ins; they're actually part of the kitchen itself. Raising that unit would be akin to raising a partition wall while leaving the rest of the house in the same place....
If you can detach the face frame cleanly why not just cut it cleanly where you need to and reassemble it using a Kreg jig or the like?
Yes. If I can get that face frame off without destroying what it's attached to. Not sure about that either; the guy who built these was no slob and did good (if unorthodox) job. They are solidly built and the woodworking and finishing is excellent. I've got a feeling every joint in the whole mess is very securely glued, biscuited, dowelled, or (shudder) M&T'ed....Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
"I did think of jacking up the entire counter, cabs and all, by enough to slide that thing in there. And I'd do it, too, if the cabs were carcasses sitting on toe kicks like normal cabinets. But these are built-ins; they're actually part of the kitchen itself. Raising that unit would be akin to raising a partition wall while leaving the rest of the house in the same place.... "Lower the floor.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
Lower the floor.
!!
At first, I thought you were gassin' me, but even if you were, you may have found an answer.
The subfloor in this chalet is 3 inches thick. (No, that's not a typo: three inches. There's two crossed diagonal layers of rough 1x planks topped with a layer of ¾" ply. I know this because I just spent a week rebuilding rotted out subfloor, joists, and plates in the bathroom before laying a new tile floor.)
I laid a new tile floor in her kitchen two years ago, right up to the toe kick under these cabs. The tile is a solid 3/8" thick, plus a smidge for the thinset and a strong ¼" for the Ditra with its layer of thinset. That right there give me 5/8"+ more headroom past the toekick. If I get inside there and cut out the top layer of subfloor, I'll get ¾" more for a total of about 1-3/8".
I can see it being a grunt-n-groaner getting it in (and worse, when the time eventually comes, out again!) with an inch-and-a-half drop, but it could work. Have to go back and measure to be sure if it'd work. The actual dishwasher should be there now; her moving van came in Thursday as I was finishing the bathroom and loading out the tools.Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
it being a grunt-n-groaner getting it in (and worse, when the time eventually comes, out again!)
Find a nice, sturdy, preferably moisture-resistant bit of hardwood. Measure depth of DW face to foot edge, then rip the hardwood that wide by the (eventual) drop in the floor and set that in the opening.
The boatbuilder in me would just use a bit of white leading & friction at the ends to hold it in.
But, you, or some future appliance puller will be thankfull for that tiny wedge someday.
Oh, yeah, for getting it in--find/acquire a bit of linoleum or sheet flooring about 20-23" wide & 36-42" long. Setting the DW on that will help get the bad boy in. Passing an impromptu "strap" around the water & electrical lines, and passing that under the DW before the wrassling "in" can also save a bit of grief (not that I'd know about getting a DW in and then having to take it back out again to make up the connections "hidden" by a floor step or anything like it TMSAISTI).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
There are some smaller (narrower) sized dishwashers out there, which might be a cheaper solution than you spending days reconstructing cabinets. There are also drawer style dishwashers, which might fit some spot?
Yea, I was thinking dishdrawers as well. The savings of reusing the old DW has got to be far outweighed by the cost to rebuild half the kitchen...
There are some smaller (narrower) sized dishwashers out there, which might be a cheaper solution than you spending days reconstructing cabinets.
That's one of the best suggestions so far. (I should have thot o' it meself, LOL....)
What you've done is get me thinking about why she wants this dishwasher installed, which may be the key to solving the problem. As I mentioned, this project has been 'under discussion' since last season, before my traditional winter break in ops from November to April. When she called me in the first time to look it over, I spent an hour or so with her examining the cab/counter set up and looking over the specs on the machine (she'd been smart enough to bring me the owner's manual).
At the end of that time, I thought I'd convinced her it wasn't worth it. I told her (a) I could not guarantee not breaking the countertop in trying to remove it to cut it cleanly; (b) if I couldn't remove it, I couldn't guarantee to cut it without splintering the plastic laminate; (c) It was going to cost her at least the price of a brand new dishwasher just to have me install the old one, and the finish on the final re-arrangement would probably leave something to be desired, at the very least. She agreed and went back to town.
Then, in mid January, she called me in again on a weekend. Something had pushed her to ask me the same question all over again. I don't know what that was; possibly one of her grown children insisting she not let the machine go to waste? Maybe she has an emotional attachment to the machine? Perhaps she's thinking of all the visits from her umpteen grandkids and the dishes that'll generate? Who knows?
I should have asked her that 'why' question instead of temporising and saying we'd look at it again when I finished her bathroom remod (which I just did yesterday).Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Dino -
You can cut the countertop, right up against the tile backsplash, with a Fein Multi-Master. If'n you ain't got one, this is the justification you need !
Greg
You can cut the countertop, right up against the tile backsplash, with a Fein Multi-Master. If'n you ain't got one, this is the justification you need !
DAMMIT! That's a low blow! How can you hit a man like me in his weak spot?
Of course I want the Multi-Master. And all the gizmos that go with it.
View ImageGimme that 636II Top Set. But it's gotta be 350C$ or better, and this whole install shouldn't cost but half that. Okay, well maybe $250 including running new plumbing for it. (The price of ABS pipe has tripled up here since crude went sky high.)
Can't justify it without shredding the customer....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Options:
18" dishwasher
Countertop dishwasher
Drawer dishwasher
So to cut it, I'm going to have to find a way to cut it in place, right up against a tile backsplash.
The guy I work with bought a new recip saw that has a wide blade and is offset so it can cut right up to walls and so on. Worked well under a toe kick to cut the subfloor and things like that.
a new recip saw that has a wide blade and is offset so it can cut right up to walls
Nope; I got a Yellow recip and some wide, cut-anything blades that can be bent to reach in anywhere. But this has got to be a clean cut. Knife-blade sharp...or the joint between the old laminate and the new butcher-block with which I'll be extending the counter will be urgly.
If absolutely necessary, I could cut a rabbet under the butcher block and lay it ¼" thick over the old countertop with a beveled edge to smooth things out...but that's a last-ditch method, just notch better than nailing on a piece of metal floor-mating strip.Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
What about one of those Japanese-style pull saws? Have to cut by hand, but they produce a very thin kerf and can cut right up to things. I use mine a lot, but most people must use a power tool.
Anyway, sound like the best idea is to convince her to let you install a new dishwasher. It'd be a real bummer to go through the trouble of installing her old one and then have something break on it and find it unrepairable! (We bought a used dishwasher and it leaked after we installed it and the needed gasket was very expensive and almost impossible to find.)
What about one of those Japanese-style pull saws?
This is a good excuse to get one of those. That's within the budget while the Multi-master wouldn't pay for itself for years.
Have you ever cut plastic laminate like Arborite¯ or Formica¯ with one?Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Laminate will dull that puppy in no time flat. They also can be sharpened but only by some one who is really gonzo..I have the feather files and have done it with some sucess, but generally you are better served getting a new blade.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
There's a guy in town here who bought a CNC machine and set up a sharpening service. He claims he can sharpen anything. Does a good job on my chop-saw blades, drill bits, and hand saws. Would that be worth a try?Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Japanese saws are really delicate and the teeth are very brittle.
I seriously doubt it can be done well. But what the heck, a decent saw is about 40-50 USD, replacement blades are about 2/3's of new saw cost. Highland Hardware in Atlanta is where I shop.
Get one, let it dull up, let the dude try to sharpen it. If he CAN and do it well, I 'll send one of mine to ya!
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
I'll get one from Lee Valley. Their stuff is very good and they ship quick.
This one looks like a good candidate.
View Image
Made in South Korea, this dozuki saw has a Japanese tooth pattern (cuts on the pull stroke) and cuts like the wind.
You will find it very comparable to our top-of-the-line professional dozuki, which costs more than twice as much. Made to our specifications, it has a 25 tpi blade that will not fail on tiny pin knots and will quickly cut both softwoods and hardwoods. Wooden handle with a steel ferrule. 22-1/2" overall with a 10-1/2" (265mm) blade.
This is, without question, the best value we have ever offered in a dozuki.
Steel-Backed Dozuki 60T55.01 View Image View Image View Image View Image
$29.95
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
That is a good saw. It won't cut 'dead nuts' flush tho, and the blade doesn't look like it is replaceable. Some can be whacked out of the spine and swapped, others are bolted on.
I like that dozuki style for most shop jobs and the kerf is IDEAL for fret slots on stringed instruments.
Even if it wont work for this nightmare job, it is really nice to have a good saw like that. Careful crosscutting with your hand holding the stock close to the cut line, they cut so damm fast it is easy to get yerself bloody. I was showing off to a coworker one time and had a pc of 1x3 over my thigh, 2 pulls and I was cutting denim and Duane.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
2 pulls and I was cutting denim and Duane.
Lol. Btdt. Got the tee-shirt, too.
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I have not cut laminate, but agree with Sphere that it would probably dull it quick. I have taken saws to Ace hardware for sharpening with okay, but not spectacular, results (might help if my saws still had all their teeth when they need sharpening!). I found a saw at Ace that is basicallt a handle to which you screw on one of three blades (regular for wood, pull stroke for wood, and a metal cutting blade). That has been real handy and wasn't all that expensive, plus you can get replacement blades. It's like a toolbox saw--smaller than a carpenter's saw but bigger than those having the little 8" blades (which is more or less what my Japanese-style pull saw has, though the Japanese saw is very thin and flexible).
This Lee Valley offering might be a better choice for the kind of cutting your contemplating, and has replacement blades. http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32939&cat=1,42884,42924&ap=1Some of the other pull saws in the carpentry selection also have hardened teeth too.
I saw that one, but the kerf is twice as wide as the others. Not sure if that's an issue for this particular job, but we're not there yet. I'm supposed to see the client sometime later today. There'll be lots to discuss.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
First let me say I didn't read all three pages so if this has been suggested and shot down, I apologize.
Just remove the screws and or cut the caulk that holds the countertops down to the cabinets and raise the counter tops with wooded wedges. Get the washer inside and then lower them down. Go slow and be carefull and listen as you drive the wedges in.
Not to shoot you down <g>, but this is an L-shaped counter 12 feet long on each leg. The two legs cannot be separated as the laminate was glued on once the substrate was attached to the cabinet frame underneath, and the joints are in different places.
To make matters worse, the sink is in the corner where the two legs meet; it's a large, two-basin sink unit with the two basins meeting at their respective lower inside corners (in other words, the left-hand basin runs parallel to the left leg of the countertop, and the right-hand basin is 90 degrees to that and runs parallel to the right leg of the countertop). That leaves a very small amount of 'meat' of countertop fore and aft of the sink unit itself. Any attemtp to lift or remove the countertop would almost certainly cause the substrate to fracture right there. It's not plywood, just low-grade mdf.
If I could remove it without breaking it, I could cut it from the wrong side with a triple-chip blade in my circ and some masking tape on the laminate face; that would give me a nice clean cut (it's flat and has no integral backsplash). But I don't think I can remove it without breaking it.Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Good luck. How is the substrate attached to the cabinets? Usually they are screwed from below. If not, you are SOL.I use many wedges and lift everything at once a little at a time. Use a utility knife to cut the caulk that is also usually there. It may not work for you, but we can't see what you see.I was asked to "cut a notch" to get a dish washer there, but no matter what you do it won't look right and the moisture from the dishwasher operation will damage the cut area.I would recommend a different unit or replace the counter top.
Drop the other boot would ya ?
What happened?
Tim
KLONK!!
I saw the client today. She listened to what everybody suggested, and decided no to buying a new machine. So we're gonna install it on the other leg of the counter, where there's no drop/recess and the only problem is the cab doors are too narrow. Told her it's gonna cost her for a new cab door and drawer, plus the time it takes to cut apart the face frame and put it back together without destroying it, plus running new plumbing up from the crawl space (it's 12 feet from the sink). Total cost will be about twice what the machine's worth, but she knows that. Her decision and she's okay with it so I am too.
Man, the price of ABS pipe & fittings up here has tripled since last year, seems like. I'm paying close to 70 smackers for a length of 4". You don't even wanna know what the fittings are going for. Are you seeing the same phenomenon?Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I read some complaining about price increases but honestly I still think its cheap compared to fuel.
I don't need to run 4" every day, but I know I was only paying about 20-odd bucks a length a couple of years ago. Now it's up over 60. A 4x4x2 T-Y is close to 20 clams, too...which illustrates why I usually just bring in my plumbing sub to do the drains when it's a big job. He can show up with a full inventory of ABS fittings in his truck; I can't afford to keep that kind of stock lying around until I need something. Copper's no problem as I can still get a bag of 100 ½-inch fittings for about $25-30.Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Probably a good idea in the end.I did some research on the apartment size DW (18"). They are very common and typically only a company only makes one model if any. Thus they are fairly expensive for what you get and when it needs replacement you are stuck again.This way she will have a standard space and when it need replacing she can go with a $250 or $1250 model.
glad you are arriving on some resolution
amazing what energies can be expended over such issuesbut on that Japaneze saw
the one you pictured is a dovetail saw - very nice detail but you go maybe 1 1/4" and you are finished because of the backing spline
get yourself one w/ coarse on one side , fine on the other and you can cut whatever you want and again & againcuts in all manner but recommended form is handle up blade down and good brisk strokes much like a saber saw cutting on upstroke
She should just get a dog and skip the dishwasher. My dogs get em so clean I can see myself.
ROAR!Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....