I enjoyed the article by Tom O’Brian regarding the notion that the construction trade is becoming more appealing to our youngsters. He wrote about dolls like “Construction Jack” [my daughter has this and her Barbies are quite fond of his hulken biceps and buns of granite… blows Ken away she says] and games that allow a person to GC a house themselves. This is OK, however it won’t even begin to solve anything unless my predictions come true [read on].
First off, once our publicly funded, monopolistic, educational establishment gets involved, the problems start. To this day [because I remember it was this way when I attended school], most public education it bent on sending EVERYONE to college…. EVERYONE. When I attended college, there was a paucity [yes, I learned that word in college] of classes on construction topics. College, broadly, ignores the trades and that entire sector. Regarding preparation for post high school, I constantly hear advertisements that boast the percentage of students from different schools that go to college; the higher the percentage, the better one’s perception of that school is supposed to be. The inference is, if you wind up in the trades, you’ve failed… this is implied and stated explicitly. I can still remember my guidance counselor [that public servant that was a counselor and a second string gym teacher advising minds of mush on their future’s… there’s a real road map] telling me I didn’t want to do that trade stuff… what would my parents think? Bottom line: forget about public school as a guide to the trades… they fail in here.
Another point: people will be deterred from the trades for stark economic reasons… salary. Go to www.salary.com and type in any trade. They make less than the standard white collar types. The fact is, a market based on these numbers will only bear a certain price in the not so short term. The abundance of competition and the notion that anyone can do what you do [they see it on TV, right? Piece of cake], make the job of delivering excellence for what it should cost difficult. Also, work as a contractor for most of these white collar professionals and there is an inference at many different levels that your skills have less value. The tooth and nail negotiations that occur when dealing with job costing and change orders comes to mind…. I could write a book on this topic alone. If the reader of this has been in the field as long as this author [and was fortunate enough to have an excellent mentor… thanks Johnny, wherever you are], you know that the level of skill needed to be really good as a carpenter really should command more money…. if you’re good…. not some self-taught, video watching, computer game playing wannabee. Bottom line: trades need to command more money
There is hope. Our world is getting smaller and our upcoming generations are going to have more competition for the traditional white collar jobs. People in India, Indonesia, Russia, China [look out for China….. BILLIONS of potential competitors] will all have well educated people who can do that accounting spreadsheet, that marketing graphic, that computer program… for 1/3 of what it will cost you…. uhhh, Dude? How am I going to buy video games and stuff? ANSWER: you’ll be doing something that requires a body in a location…. like a trade. A Russian carpenter can’t build an addition in Ohio… unless he/she emigrates, assimilates, etc. These are some significant barriers to entering this market. An electrician, an HVAC mechanic, a carpenter, a mason… all of whom will be valued higher because they are more scarce… this will help to drive the underlying education… delayed and late… but moving in the right direction. I did a stint at computer consulting [in the mid 1990s when I couldn’t afford to continue to wear my tool belt] and I saw the ease of replacing American help happen in programming in a few short years.
Got kids? Get them Construction Jack… and then train them yourself… the public schools will blow it. My father wisely told me “believe none of what you hear and 1/2 of what you see”. I see four [4] decades of declining academic scores for our children and a steady drop in the USA academic ranking among industrialized nations. “Junior, grab your pencil box… you’re coming to the job site… and don’t forget your doll”. Yeah… that’s the ticket. Maybe Tom is prophetic… nahhh!
Replies
To this day [because I remember it was this way when I attended school], most public education it bent on sending EVERYONE to college.... EVERYONE.
The Lake Woebegone syndrome: "and all of the children are above average"
When I attended college, there was a paucity [yes, I learned that word in college] of classes on construction topics. College, broadly, ignores the trades and that entire sector.
Becasue trade issues tradionally haven't been considered as "intellectual" issues.
College is about learning to think critically, with a smidgeon of useful facts thrown in.
But if you want to see a college that has some great trade programs, taste http://www.owens.edu/sitemap.html
Just a couple of miles from me, that school rocks!
_______________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
I thought is was the Lake Wobegon Syndrome... in any event, good point.
The bottom line is: Our educational establishment, overall, ignores the trades.... got to get that liberal arts in! Boy, that's really made ME money. Thinking critically can accompany trade training.... I'm sure that school that rocks thinks so too.
Secondly, in what the educational establishment have allegedly educated people in, they've failed. My sister, an outstanding educator, was part of a system that sucked. She moved to the private sector [still teaching] and is making the impact she's capable. Most of the educators would flourish in a privatized system... groups like the NEA will try to make sure that never happens... and they'll do it with the teachers union dues and buy politicians in back rooms. Don't worry about our kids... we're making money!
The syndrome cynically states that the children are above average.... Japan, Germany, Switzerland all kick the crap out of our childrens' scores... and they don't need to be cynical. Define average. I have kids apply for helper positions who don't know fractions. One kid thought New York City was the capitol of New York. Another thought Afghanistan was in Africa.... average..... Riiiggghhtt! But the whole medium of radio and TV which spawned this syndrome is part of the problem, eh?
Unfortunately, pithy quotes by Oscar Wilde don't help in answering the hard questions here... I've always thought of pithy quotes as a diversion... I've seen the New York Times do it my whole life... and more recently, my brother-in-law
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Edited 3/23/2003 6:52:06 AM ET by Jack
Edited 3/23/2003 7:01:14 AM ET by Jack
Edited 3/23/2003 7:06:21 AM ET by Jack
A response to the educational portion of your posts -
My stepson is not a literary sort. Nor did he enjoy science and math.
His learning style is kinesthetic, meaning he learns by doing, seeing, handling - not by reading or listening. He bareley passed in school.
But he is an artist and a three dimensional genuius. He grasps layout and design concepts more quickly than I can explain them. He is a problem solver and creative producer.
I knew from about seventh grade that he would find fulfillment in building, plumbing or mechanical work.
his high school principle, however, drove the idea into him that if he didn't go for a colllege degree, he would be a failure in life. I despise that man for trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. He loved the system instead of the student.
Stepson tried college for a piece and is now happy driving nails!
Love your work!.
Excellence is its own reward!
How right you are!!!!
I have always had to "fight" with my childrens' teachers about University. So far, only one of them, the youngest, has been there (& she's taking a Masters).
I hava always encouraged our daghters to do what they like best and they are happy, if not wealthy.
My eldest son (14) detests building and helping me. He would sell my tools in an instant. Let him go into whatever fits.
The youngest (adoption soon) at 4 can't wait to get a toy hammer in his hands, put on a belt & "help" me. Even if he goes to college, if I live long enough I will encourage him to take a hands-on approach.
Education is necessary to be a complete human being, but it's not always the answer to a job.Quality repairs for your home.
Aaron the HandymanVancouver, Canada
>> Education is necessary to be a complete human being, but it's not always the answer to a job.
I agree. And schooling is not always the best way to get an education.
Abso-mucking lootly!!Quality repairs for your home.
Aaron the HandymanVancouver, Canada
College is about learning to think critically, with a smidgeon of useful facts thrown in.
I've been in college long enough, and had enough majors to comment, College can teach you to think critically, but as for usefull facts, I have yet to find any, Even in the two most practical course I took on "Building Construction" there was little usefull info.View ImageGo Jayhawks
CAG
What do you mean, no meaningful information, BS in Math and CS and I find myself every single day of my existance useing a differential equation to solve a problem.
Doug
I stopped at Calc 2, not much Diff E Q in there, but I doubt I would actually use it if I had to. College had taught me problem solving and how to give people (professors) what they want to hear.
Guess it depends what you do after college, I have a passion for remodeling, and plan to go into business for myself at somepoint. What I have learned in college that will help me with this amounts to a few business classes.
The only two building construction classes that are offered here I took and they were a joke with a capital J, I guess they could teach something to someone who knew nothing about the subject, but I never cracked a book, or spent a hour studying and got A's in both as did several of my friends.
Its been my experience that classes that should have practical applications in life are filled with to much fluff and not enough raw hard information. They skim over the basics and have not gone into enough detail. And its not that I have not taken "advanced" level classes.
The Liberal Arts classes I have taken have forced me to think critically and problem solve but only to the extent of figuring out what the teacher wants to hear and giving it back to him. Difference of opinion and Questioning Professors (at least the ones I have had) in critical thinking classes, has not been rewarded, rather punished, again, not only me.View ImageGo Jayhawks
Are you taking any kind of engineering courses.
A couple is structural and strenght of materials would be helpful.
I took what was offered to all, but unless I am in an engineering program I cant take the ones that would really help. And I don't want to be an engineer so....View ImageGo Jayhawks
CAG
That was only my attempt at sarcasm!
I don't know if I could preform an iffy diffy problem if my life depended on it, and I cant ever visualize that happnen!
I would have to agree with you that the classes that I took made me a more analytical thinker than anything else, witch is good I guess.
Doug
Ah.... Got ya, thought maybe you were an engineer or somthin'
Basically Im just bitter about college because I have been here to damn long, screwed off a bit, but mostly switching majors just killed me. Only reason I'm still here is cause I figure its a waste a money if I dont get the piece of paper now.View ImageGo Jayhawks
"Ah.... Got ya, thought maybe you were an engineer or somthin'"
CAG
An engineer, thats what I started out going to college for, soon as I saw what I was headed for I got the hell out of that group. I'm a cabinetmaker/carpenter so the math stuff comes in handy now and then, the CS stuff is long forgoten.
I was there for a while to and I didnt start till I was 30 so it was double hard.
You'll be done soon enough and it will be nothin but a bad dream.
Doug
You'll be done soon enough and it will be nothin but a bad dream
Next december, I get my zillion dollar piece of paper and I ain't looking back.View ImageGo Jayhawks
Right on!
My grand dad was a mechanic in the depression. He said, "Find a job doing something that people NEED, and you will always have enough work to feed yourself. Do it well and you'll live well. be outstanding, and you'll stand out!"
Excellence is its own reward!
I'll second that motion.
Being an electrician is nice. People will live in houses that are falling down without calling a builder or carpenter. They might, assuming they have the inclination, call a roofer if the roof leaks. But should the power to their TV go out they call an electrician in short order. It's good to feel needed even if it's by people who would live in a ditch if it had HBO.
Just had to help out the GC I'm subing for and get my plumber onto the site quick...his guy was a no-show.
He called around for 3 days......couldn't find anyone to come take a look see.
Went home and told the 15 month old boy he's going to be a plumber!
Same job..week before....I had my still unemployeed software engineer friend come in and help me demo.
Guy's been into computers from the begining.....has worked all around....excellent resume....and still unemployeed....might be getting close to a year now.
A trade is a good think to learn! My brother in Cali is watching everyone around him get laid off at his offices..he works for a gig telecom company....
He's already filed to save the Buck Const name for if and when he needs it..and is going to start to take the classes for the Cali contractors license.
Just think...we both would get mad at Dad when he'd drag us off the the job sites while growing up.....
Dad would always say..Remodeling is a recession proof business.....good times...people spruce up the place to sell and move up......bad times people do what repairs they have to so the place is livable.
My plumber showed up in his new Chevy Avalanche........be a plumber.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite