venting session:
Just browsed over at the JLC forum .. like to see if there might be something new to learn or check out.
I know that it has been mentioned before how touchy they are over there about Non-professionals posting but JEEEEEEEZ. there were a few posts by folks who where obviously new to the forum and Instantly the sharks move in for the kill….. Tell us who you are !!!! Blah Blah Blah. Are you a professional…Blah Blah. They need to take a chill pill over there.
Listen folks, what we all do for a living is important to us we and it’s nice to have a place that you can chat it up with your fellow comrades but for crying out loud it’s not *&^%$#$@! brain surgery or information important to national security.
I guess what I’m getting at is….. I think all the folks here at BT are so much better and less critical of those who are seeking advice.
Thanks for listening:)
BT is the best!!!!!!
Replies
I think all the folks here at BT are so much better and less critical of those who are seeking advice.
That's just because we're a bunch of hacks over here who only know how to drink beer and bull****. If we were any good we'd be hanging out over there with the real professionals.
Edit to add: ;-)
Edited 4/27/2007 5:10 pm ET by woodguy99
You ARE speaking solely about your self right?Parolee # 40835
I dunno, that description fits me. I'm a hack and I like to drink beer and talk BS.
I love it here.
Nope--
I used to hang out at JLC too. It's much more fun over here. People are serious about their work, but don't take their work too seriously...if you know what I mean.
If you don't know what I mean maybe you'd have more fun over at JLC....
Nah it's boring over there. I guess I forgot the smily face..Parolee # 40835
What if you used to drive a hack. Does that qualify?Remodeling contractor who once visited the Glass City.
As long as you can bull****, and like to (or used to like to) drink beer...I think you're in....
Being a hack, hack driver, or construction worker is optional.
How about if you wake up hacking sometimes?Remodeling contractor who once visited the Glass City.
That'll getchur hackles up.
JLC for professionals only heh-----
OK so it's obvious that I am a professional turd herder.
I know quite a bit about electricity, but limited knowledge on electrical code, should I go over there & pose as an electrician & see how long it takes to get the boot.
I have built quite a few decks, & got paid for it, isn't the definition of pro, someone who gets paid to do what they do?
Kinda reminds me of a chainsaw discussion I got into in Quilcene WA ( logging town) they were talking about their Stihls, Poulans, Huskivarnas---- I said I had a Mcculloch, they said those ain't bad----- I said yeah it works pretty good until I get to the edge of the yard & my extension cord comes undone------- I almost had to run out of that bar after that comment.I fear no man & only one GOD. Me
I think in a few minutes he'll tell you which code you violated. He's jumped on me 4 out of five times I've posted here. This is why I typically lurk.
He's gonna wanna know about your extension cord gauge, length, if it had a grounding plug, and how you rolled it up afterwards.
He's smells fear and be sure to never light more than three on a single match!
I thought that was don't use 3 matches on one ciggerette.I fear no man & only one GOD. Me
Who?
Who dares, wins.
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/
Hee Hee double hee hee hee
I laughed my arse off at this post.Had to copy it to the joke thread, AND the BT quoteables thread.=0)
Don't believe everything you think.
LOL
Well after the last quote ( on the fly) you put in there, someone could take that out of context ;-)I fear no man & only one GOD. Me
Hee Hee Heeeeee
Well, Everybody loves Raymond
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks:) I hope so at least for my sake.
Now, wait a minute. Who let you in here?? I see you've been here since Sept 05, but you only have 93 posts. Is there a reason you've kept a low profile???Your profile says your occupation is Construction, but that doesn't mean much. We had to chase out a guy that claimed construction experience and it turned out it was in tinker toys.So, lets get to the important posting credentials....what kind of beer do you drink???
Rich Beckman
:)
all right I'll bite
I do small remodeling projects and a lot of finish work.Oh and the beer....usually imports and of course it has to be cold ;)
Well, my wife says I start a lot of things and don't finish them, so that makes us a good combination.
Beer has to be cold? One of those fussy dudes, I see!
My grandpa used to say this about pie, but I guess it applies to beer too--I only like two kinds of pie--hot pie and cold pie. (Well, maybe not HOT beer, but cellar temperature is okay.)
Sounds like a friend of mine. I ask him how he can continue to smoke when it's such a hassle for him to find time and a place to do it. He says he has really gotten his smoking under control. He now smokes only either when he is with other people or when he is alone.
Ron
hot pie with cold ice cream
I got kick out of JLC, they found out I dont know anything about concrete
No they found out you're from Allybammy:)I don't Know what I am doing
But
I am VERY good at it!!
There you go--a well balanced meal! One from the hot food group and one from the cold food group.
Pardon my ignorance guys. It has been a couple ,acually three years since I've participated. What is JLC???
Gary...
The Journal of Light Construction. Its a publishing outfit parallel in some ways to FHB (Fine HomeBuilding), with an online website and message board. But the message board tends to be more exclusively pro-oriented, according to the gist of this thread.
http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlconline.storefrontThe house itself was not so much. It was smaller than Buckingham Palace, rather gray for California, and probably had fewer windows than the Chrysler Building.
I sneaked over to the side entrance and pressed a bell and somewhere a set of chimes made a deep mellow sound like church bells. A man in a striped vest and gilt buttons opened the door, bowed, took my hat and was through for the day."--
Farewell, My Lovely (Chapter 18)
Thanks Huck
Gary...
Ah, I love Raymond Chandler's writing. I think in a little further on in that book you quoted, he talks about the pile of the carpeting being ankle deep or something like that. One of my favorite writers. There's also Dasheill Hammett--one of my favorite lines of his is something like, "She turned and walked through the doorway and only her pretty leg was still in view; I put a bullet in it."
Oh yeah forgot as far as the low profile I'm in the contractor relocation program so sshhhhhhhhh;)Just kidding. I get a chance every now and then to read what's going on here but not a lot a time to post stuff or reply because i get caught up with the work thing. but I always enjoy my time here. Ray :)
"I get a chance every now and then to read what's going on here but not a lot a time to post stuff or reply because i get caught up with the work thing."Clearly your priorities are all screwed up.Work over Breaktime?!?! Cut that out!
Rich BeckmanThis signature line intentionally left blank.
I have experience not only in tinker toys, but also Legos, Erector Sets and Lincoln Logs. Does that make me a pro or just a general contractor?
I have experience not only in tinker toys, but also Legos, Erector Sets and Lincoln Logs
Don't know about pro or GC, but you'd qualify for building inspector where I am!!!
Bowz
"I have experience not only in tinker toys, but also Legos, Erector Sets and Lincoln Logs. Does that make me a pro or just a general contractor?"Sounds like a pro to me!
Rich BeckmanThis signature line intentionally left blank.
In many states (like mine) a hammer and a truck will qualify you.
I wonder what the dividing line is between "Pro" and "DIY"?
While I am working on my own stuff, this is at least a part time job for me (Stay home parenting being the other job). I've spend tens of thousands of dollars every year on materials at the HW stores and lumber yards. I've got set of tools that makes working Pros envious (not the Ryobi 18v, of course - most of the Pro workers I see use those too!).
So at what point am I a DIYer, vs. being a Pro on his first job which happens to be for his own family?Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Parenting has always been a mix of sage life advice and inexcusable laziness.
I see this post was to me, but I missed the email notification.In my mind a 'pro' is someone who engages in a certain skillset in order to make their living, in other words; it is their bread and butter. It has no bearing on the quality of work or level of skill, save for the general assumption that someone who does the work every single day gets more time to hone their skills.Also, a pro could be someone who works for someone else, therefore, their subsistence depends on meeting the organization's requirements, however narrow they may be.A small business person, or entrepreneur, on the other hand, may argue that they further hone their skills since their survival and well being is tied to how well they can succeed in the open market, which requires flexibility and a wide range of skillsets.I remember a long time ago when I learned to ride horses, us better riders were expected to be able to ride a variety of horses at different levels of training/temperament. We were told repeatedly that a good rider can handle any horse and still ride well. Thus so it is with the trades. Expensive/fancy tools are great and ideal work conditions/pay are wonderful, but real skill comes in managing the tough spots and coming out with a good product at the end of the job that gets food on the table. - A DIYer usually will eat and get their mortgage paid whether the kitchen job is finished yesterday or next year.
- A DIYer will live with their screw-ups
- A DIYer can go overbudget
-- change their mind fourteen times with no loss
-- stop the project mid-stream
- not follow code
- hire all their relatives to help for a beer and a dinner or whatever
- refuse to pay subcontractors (who cares they won't use them again) - undo everything they just did and do it again. Or, sell the discombobulated mess and hire someone for the next house.
Edited 5/11/2007 8:45 pm ET by girlbuilder
What? No plastic American Bricks?I would rather sit on a pumpkin and have it all to myself than be crowded on a velvet cushion. I would rather ride on earth in an ox cart, with a free circulation, than go to heaven in the fancy car of an excursion train and breathe a malaria all the way. -Thoreau's Walden
Those are cool! Dang I had a deprived childhood...
When this thread started, I decided to go over to jlc to see what all the hubbub was about. Having never been before, I just browsed about for a bit to get the lay of the land. IMO, it does seem a bit dry and even a little snooty. Not much fun there.
Having completed my research, I've decided that due to my attitude and ongoing medical condition (insanity), that I will continue to post only on B.T.
I hope this is acceptable to my fellow B.T.ers
I hope its alright I refer to everyone as "fellows"
I hope I don't have to work tomorrow
I hope
Welcome home.
Insanity is the only thing that keeps us sane here.My eyes are still squirrly and my hair is still blue
Why don't she l;ove me like she used to do
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks, Piff, good to be here.
p.s. If I may be so bold, maybe its the blue hair?
Wanna run your hair through my fingers?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Umm,,,,,,, well,,,,,,. oh gosh, look at the time!
I think you nailed what is special about Breaktimers...we are all on the verge of, or already, insane. The sane hang out at JLC.
those who claimed to be sane hang out at JLC
Actually, I was speaking to my own struggle with sanity. I guess my real point was given my ongoing medical condition (insanity) and my repeated lame attempts at humour, I have been accepted here at B.T. Well, lets say I've been tollerated here. I don't think JLC would extend the same courtisey. There's a great group here, lets just be thankful for that.
Spent many an hour pouring over those American Bricks. Kind of like a forerunner of Legos in the 50s and 60s.
Sometimes got pretty exciting incorporating them with LincolnLogs.
be but then again the rubberband propelled plastic rocket launcher on the armyset's tanks got pretty enjoyable when you could make the towers fall from across the room.
Old Johnson, in his "Wonder-Working Providence," speaking of the first settlers of this town, with whom he was contemporary, tells us that "they burrow themselves in the earth for their first shelter under some hillside, and, casting the soil aloft upon timber, they make a smoky fire against the earth, at the highest side." -Thoreau's Walden
Edited 5/11/2007 2:28 pm ET by rez
Wow, that's just like how my home was built! Except they used asbestos instead of plastic.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Parenting has always been a mix of sage life advice and inexcusable laziness.
hey man, it had bay windows that actually opened!Old Johnson, in his "Wonder-Working Providence," speaking of the first settlers of this town, with whom he was contemporary, tells us that "they burrow themselves in the earth for their first shelter under some hillside, and, casting the soil aloft upon timber, they make a smoky fire against the earth, at the highest side." -Thoreau's Walden
As far as I know I'm the only woman over there and I haven't found it always a comfortable or welcoming place for someone a little different from the 'norm'. They tend to be a bit militant about protecting the status quo as they believe it to be.
Makes things a bit stale over there most of the time as well.
I'm sorry you feel that way. It seemed like in times past there wasn't crude humor or comments that either implied sexism or that was blatant. There have been a few comments by a few of the new guys that in my opinion is just plain wrong, in jest or serious (is there really a difference?)
Tim,
I had a good feeling that at least one regular from JLC would come over and I'd have to qualify myself. I'm glad you gave me the opportunity.For one, I think that online communications make it difficult sometimes to determine if one is joking or being a jerk. You and many others have been good over there and as a matter of fact, I have a couple of conversations going that seem to be going well.Then sometimes there's one asshat who slips in, says something or disregards my comments completely and I am left to wondering, "Do they all feel like that but don't say anything?" Sometimes my comments will be nitpicked more than others, or I will fill I am being tested or doubted a little extra, or jumped on with a vengeance for a minor error. It could be just me and sometimes I am in a mood to accept the challenge, sometimes it is glaringly inappropriate and irritating.I think as a woman, I want very much to trust men (heck I really luv them), but get used to getting up my defenses quickly if I feel the least slight, my own sensitivity I'm sure, but I will say that sexism exists and my caution didn't just come from outer space. I also tend to be more vocal about that than when I was younger.Which I think is important as when I vocalize my concerns and others step forward to say, "That's not me." then I can check myself and use that to buffer against my cautious side which says, "Hey, but you know all men hate women really, so don't make a fool of yourself, go hide somewhere and give up." or something of that nature.I'm being really honest here and feeling really kinda vulnerable.One of the neatest things about being in this business is the opportunity to turn so many stupid assumptions about people that I was socialized with, on its head.I think often men are used to assuming that their way of seeing the world is the only way, but it isn't. We're all just people, despite our gender and we all want the same things pretty much. We can work together to make things better for ourselves and the world around us. I believe that starts with respecting ourselves and others. As I've gotten older I have come to get less angry at misogynists and tend toward seeing them as objects of pity who due to their emotional or intellectual limitations, miss out on enjoying fulfilling relationships with other people on many levels. I really value the exchanges here and at JLC as I don't get the opportunity to 'hang with the dudes' or something men do I guess, I dunno. So these forums give me exposure to a wide range of experiences and viewpoints.I certainly don't want to put a chill on anyone, but I also will speak up to check things when necessary, although I feel this is a little more welcoming that the Big Boy's Forum.
It is obvious from your post that you have a good understanding of how society works in general, and of how it works in construction circles, as well. You must have been there/done that. This understanding puts you in a position to decide how to react to different scenarios that play themselves out on a daily basis.
Everyone is a product of their live's experiences, and everyone is trying to prove themselves in some fashion or another. The fact that you are a women in a predominately male field has given you unique challenges, and unique solutions to those challenges.
Your sensitivity to the issue of gender is likely warranted from a lifetime of having to feel you must prove yourself to your male counterparts. I can only imagine the burden of tyhis situation for you, yet I have my burdens as well, so does everyone.
I try not to be too sensitive in the areas that are my hot buttons; for example, I never finished my secondary education, and I used to constantly watch for indications that others held a lower opinion of me and my capabilities because of it. I was constantly trying to 'prove' myself to the better educated. Now I realize that there are a lot of things that make the man (and woman). Now when people underestimate me, I see it as my advantage.
As to JLC, I have visited there some, it certainly has a different feel to it, but there is a wealth of information to be found there if you accept the constraints of a perceived hierarchy. I feel no need to prove myself to the crowd over there.
I come here for a lot of the same reasons that you do: To relax and talk with the boys and girls, have a little fun and learn something from the wide range of talent that chooses to participate here.
_______________________________________________________________
Thanks Heck for your insightful reply. While reading this, I can see this its just not all me. Also, I do find that the JLC forums have a plethora of good information and even though I might get chafed here and there, I cannot resist going back. I go back because the camaraderie of professionals is something I can't always get where I am, not until I guess I join a local builder's group. Which I will soon. Reading the forums here and at JLC give a window into the depth of the construction/building/remodeling field which I don't think I'd have unless I had a chance to spend everyday trucking around talking to every body in the trades. And even then, my view would be limited to the narrow scope of the experiences and expectations of my area. It is always interesting to see different views and building techniques discussed that are regional. It opens one's eyes.The level of experience among pros here and at the JLC forum is something I treasure as an opportunity to learn to be better at what I do. Also, no they aren't all horrible all the time and in fact, I've found here and over at JLC at times, that what I thought was my own miserable experience on a job, possibly wasn't/isn't that rare at all. Oftentimes a good hint or suggestion is all that is needed. The forums offer that and for that they are important.So, yes JLC is militant at times, but I can see that its not all of the participants or that its an intractable problem that should keep me from participating. Certainly not.And diesel, please take their advice and check out the rough framing forums over there, as an advanced framer, I'm sure you would have a lot to offer.
You don't have to qualify yourself. I don't know what it's like to be the minority in that kind of environment.
I'm just sorry to see comments made that are offensive to you, because they are offensive period. My parents used to say that "water seeks its own level" and I really hope the level doesn't drop over there.
Agree re the offensive comments--it's shameful--and unfortunately the level there has dropped recently. A great thing about BT is that it would never be allowed, whereas the JLC owners probably never even visit their own site.
Another name for a misogynist is a "single guy".Just ignore 'em. The rest of us like women a lot!Take care!Brooks
" 89188.175 in reply to 89188.40 Another name for a misogynist is a "single guy"."True to some extent, the ones who have a woman usually won't let her out of the house for fear that she might see what she's missing.And true, there's enough decent guys around to allow me to ignore them most of the time.
I haven't owned a construction related business since early 2002.
Prior to then I had worked for the family business, been an employee of someone else and owned my own small business. I still get calls from friends every now and then to help with tough jobs, or just when they need an extra hand. I can frame, roof, side, trim and build stairs and install stairs and rails.
I could easily find work for any weekend or vaction days I wanted too. Matter of fact, I could work any day for the guy who took over my shop.
Some of the advice i've seen at JLC is invaluable and if taken to heart could save someone new to the business years of hard lessons.
On the other hand, some of the advice I've seen over there, particularly in regards to insurance and taxes borders on advocating criminal negligence.
I think the "Professionals Only" attitude is far more of a perception than a reality.
It is a different kinda place.
The Pro-only thing is fine. No need for people to be rude about it though. I do understand the goal of keeping the content useful to professionals, without the distraction of basic DIY questions. Plenty of other DIY resources out there.
On the other hand, I have seen some rather unprofessional behavior there from the "Pros" there. If they want to police the place, they should be holding the regulars there to higher standards of behavior too.
The rudeness is not just directed at DIY, but also at each other at JLC (far more than here...even if you include the tavern).
Posters here have more fun while they violently disagree with each other (for the most part, BT'ers don't take themselves too seriously).
Heck, I'm a pro and I've been insulted a few times at JLC just this week.
Here, the only person ripping on me this week was Splintergroupie...and I take that as a compliment (actually she was telling me to lighten up, but it was a misunderstanding, as I had posted in satire).
I do have to admit a weakness, I have been rude at JLC too...just to others who were being rude first and were itching for a fight (that makes it okay!) ;o)
BASSWOOD : "I do have to admit a weakness, I have been rude at JLC too...just to others who were being rude first and were itching for a fight (that makes it okay!) ;o)"I almost jumped in on a couple of the threads just to rip the guys being rude a new one but figured it would just add fuel to the fire and probably would get nowhere as well as cause my attendance to be
unwelcome. not that I would really care.It was more fun to come back to the FUN place (BT) to hang out and tell the story anyway. The responses gave me a chuckle;)Ray:)
I have not spent very much time at JLC. There is some great content in there though. The photo gallery alone is worth the trip.Too bad that other crap goes on.One guy made some goofy statement about sapwood and "hardwood" instead of heartwood...so another guy gets all over him about it, but in the process makes some similarly inaccurate statements...so I thought it would be fun to make him look silly too.He, in turn, asks to see pictures of my work--to see if I am worthy (as if my knowledge of trees as a forester is worthless if I am not also an accomplished trim master). I happen to be more accomplished in carpentry than in forestry...but why should I have to prove either.I've also tried to discourage bad behavior...that went nowhere fast.Oh well.Ray, Glad to meet your aquaintence here at BT.
adding fuel to the fire can be the most fun, sometimes
There are more than a few who are a little worried by some of the new guys over there driving good posters and guys like yourself away. I really hope its just a bump in the road.
Those forums have given me more information and encouraged me to reach out more than these here. There are a lot reasons for that I think, not to disparage these forums at all.
Brats is what some guys are. Hey wait, I'm not one of them am I?
Hmmm, maybe Carola does need to slap me around a bit :-)
Edit: What name did you guy by at JLC? Same as here?
I'm with you about the photo gallery.
Edit2: I really hope I didn't give the impression that these forums aren't as good or not as helpful. When I say "there are a lot of reasons for that I think",
some of those reasons are the software here, I miss a lot of threads, I found JLC before Breaktime and have gotten used to it. I frequent both forums because the overlap between one forums flaws/strengths and the others make for a really great education.
I'm sorry if my comments were offensive or sound a little rude.
Edited 4/27/2007 11:08 pm ET by Timuhler
Edited 4/27/2007 11:15 pm ET by Timuhler
--"There are more than a few who are a little worried by some of the new guys over there driving good posters and guys like yourself away."Now there is another insult...you had to make a distiction between "good posters" and "guys like me". ;o) Just kidding.I think JLC forums are a great resource (I like the mag. and JLC live shows too). I enjoy your posts here and over there, but as a trim carp, I seldom visit the JLC framing forum.--"Brats is what some guys are." The recent emphasis on "Pro-only" seems to have unleashed the inner-goon in some JLC regulars. Drawing a line between Pros and DIY seems to have also encouraged an attitude where additional lines are drawn within the pro ranks (greenhorn, hack, master hack, senior master hack...wood god wannabe, etc.)I keep seeing subtle and obvious attempts at establishing a pecking order. --"Hmmm, maybe Carola does need to slap me around a bit :-)"What you guys do in private is your own business. ; )--"Edit: What name did you go by at JLC? Same as here?"Same lame name...Basswood.--"I'm sorry if my comments were offensive or sound a little rude. "Tim, I never noticed you being rude. The closest I can think of is when someone called you on some safety issues. I don't think you were rude then (defensive, maybe). IIRC you said you believe your work method is safe for you...if others are not comfortable with your techniques they should not attempt them. I agree with you (I do some things I would not recommend to others--confession: one of my CMS rigs has no guard, etc.).
"...the recent emphasis..."Nothing recent about it. I was told by a moderator over there about four years ago that I shouldn't be conversing with so and so be cause that person was not a pro and I was only encouraging other HOs and DIYs to add threads to the forum there.I told him to stick it where...politely of course!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Ironic how unprofessional some dweebs are about keeping it "professional".Tradespeople get enough bad press. I would like to think JLC forums could be a class act and improve the collective image of contractors.I've said some dumb things here and remember you being blunt in response, but we manage to always be civil. I understand how much more experience you have and appreciate the time you take to weigh-in on things...(I'm still glad I got rid of my Paslode gas nailers though) ;o)be comin' out of left field.
"Ironic how unprofessional some dweebs are about keeping it "professional".It is really interesting. As as been noted manytimes overthere HO are welcome to read the forum, just not ask questions. And unlike BT the JLC forums are open (ie, googlable). Thus more likely that the "unwashed" will find it.I have pointed out several times many of the comments did not look professional in a professional forum, but was lost.JLC has always had a different feel, but in the past not that "critical" of others.I don't know for sure, but I feel that the change in when the Electric Shop was started..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I was stunned at how nasty that electrical shop thread turned a couple weeks back- I'd think that if someone here took to googling members and posting their (well, not yours, but he was trying) personal info here, they would be banned.
Used to be that the finish carpentry forum seemed pretty friendly, but it's less like that now.zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
I've noticed, and to be fair, perhaps with a certain
amount of good reason, that the electrical forum on
JLC was THE most uptight of all.
It always seemed to me the standard reponse to
any basic electrical question was "HIRE AN ELECTRICIAN!"
Fine, but many residential tasks are certainly at
the level of a decent DIYer.
At least in that thread there is context.But a while back, when they had a moderator, the moderator started a new thread just to google the name of another person that posted there.And it is a common name. He then and at least one other of the regulars posted comments based on one person that google found.I saw it after about 5-7 post made a comment about if that was personal comments. It then disappered a few days later..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
There are certain posters over there who are really really good and helpful, then there are a lot people that chime in here or there or are newer and that is what I was referring to, not that you are a bad poster.
The forum over there is set in place with rules that should be followed. If DIY is allowed, the quality of the forum will drop. That has happened to a lot of other forums before.
That being said, the guys over there who get uptight about newbies posting need to check themselves.
We are all newbies at something, I know when I first started posting there, it was all questions. Because finally I had found a group of guys who were interested in taking framing further than many, and because it was a group, the exchange of ideas and approaches will like strking gold for me. I still feel that way.
If DIY is allowed, the quality of the forum will drop. So you feel this place has drop. because we are 70% diyer
you really want to go where the pro has their panties in a wad, try hvac-talk.com. They will come to your house and slap you
Yes, I do feel the quality here has dropped. But let me explain that.
Because there is more DIY posting, the % of useful info for someone like me is less. The simple reason is, because I'm not DIY. I live, eat, and breathe framing and siding. Breaktime is one source of information I rely on.
My comment earilier was that JLC has some weaknesses and Breaktime does, but using both sources means that they offset each other for the most part.
Here at Breaktime, there used to be some discussions that were really cool and fun to watch. I got here just a hair too late for that. But those guys don't post here much anymore, of course they don't at JLC either.
There is a lot of useful info, but since 70% is DIY, how much value will I find?
I really hope that doesn't sound rude or arrogant because I don't meant it to. FHB as a magazine is less valuable to me personally because the really great articles that I can learn from are fewer and farther between. Why? Because the mag has shifted focus to more DIY.
If you have the archive DVD, look at the articles that used to be in the mag. They were really informative.
Now the articles seem shorter, rely more heavily on pictures (not more pictures but bigger and higher quality), and illustrations. When I finally see a framing article in FHB, it is super short.
I am a diyer, I have been ban from JLC because I is a diyer. But how do I know that they are pro. What is a pro. A professinal, someone that does this for a living, somebody that does the work wrong because he want to cheat the customer and cut corners, but hes a pro.I am a diyer, but when it comes to concrete, I can run circles around everyone over there. But I is a diyer. They dont like me because I am a diyer, and smarter than they are. I dont do concrete for a living, I dont do electrical, HVAC, plumbing. But I am better than they are. I am a Diyer.Did I mention that I is a diyer
Your post didn't make sense to me at all.
To address what I could understand :-), no set of rules is perfect. So what can I say? Your comment is the crux of the self-appointed profile police. It could be required to fill out a profile to be part of the board. But who knows what some might put in their profile, whether its true or not.
In fact I might be a 45 year old guy who is 6'6" and not a 29 year old who is 5'6 13/16" (rounded) :-) haha
I understand what you are getting at regarding the fact that some DIY are more knowledgable and experienced that some who do it for a living. The problem is, how is anyone supposed to know?
I think from Mike Smith's posts, Piffins, Dieselpig, Boss Hog, Stand Foster, etc, that these guys are professionals. Right? So maybe the only way to know is the quality of posting.
It is usually pretty clear who the DIYers are by the questions they ask. At JLC, its pretty obvious who that is usually. Sometimes its a really young or inexperienced guy trying to learn and he gets busted. If he filled out his profile or gave some info in his post that could be avoided.
So at the least a "sticky" at the top of the forum could say that.
For me, I don't want to have to wade through the DIY posts (which aren't going to get into trig for roofcutting, groin vault math, or tweaks to speed up or smooth out framing) to get to the really beneficial info for me.
You tell me why I should have to when the JLC rules set the forum up for professionals. That magazine is written for professionals, there aren't DIY articles in that mag, and they set the forum up that way too.
I have nothing against DIY
>In fact I might be a 45 year old guy who is 6'6" and not a 29 year old who is 5'6 13/16" (rounded) :-) hahaIt's said that TV makes an actor look 10 pounds heavier than in real life. Well, compared to real life, forums seem to make one 6" taller, 20 pounds more muscular, 15 years older (or younger), and 50% braver! <G>
Maybe the reason you didn't get brownbag's post was I think he was speaking a bit facetiously or toungue in cheek. He takes some getting to know...He is a concrete and soils engineer or highly trained test tech, a true professional in the construction trades, working in a company respoinsible for a lot of the commercial concrete certification along the Gulf coast, if I put all my recollections about him together in one string.But because of his language 'handicap' he gets short shrift at times. And tho a pro, when he ventures into areas like HVAC, he is not a pro in THAT particular field so he gets it double....
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I don't know anything about him. I did understand some of his comments being tongue-in-cheek, but his argument was the same other people before him on the subject of professional vs DIY.
It was never a problem over there until the really green DIYers started posting.
Edit: I just read your other replies.
You know, it really bothers me how much "ego" plays a part in the trades. The local lumberyard puts on a Contractors Lunch and invites tool companies, lumber companies, etc and it's pretty big. I bet 300-500 guys will show up. Maybe a bit less.
We get a kick out of it because there are guys there that seem bent on "sweating" everyone. They show up with their ego and attitude and its written on their face and body language.
What I always appreciated at JLC in my experience was that so many people were willing to help. Maybe I'm just different in my viewpoint, or maybe my approach, but I have never been treated badly.
I work very hard not to treat others badly and to make sure that when I offer information or advice that I do it in a way that shows a helpful attitude, not a "I'm great and you should everything my way". I feel that many post with that kind of attitude.
I had a timber framer from back east go back and forth with me for about a month answering my emails and he really really helped me out. Same thing from Joe Fusco, Joe Carola, Richard Birch, Gary Katz, Ken Drake, Joe Bartok, John Kirkpatrick, John Harmon, Boyd Miller, Mark Parlee,Tom(TJHDJS whatever), Joe Wood and too many others to count. I know it'd be the same here.
The attitude from the guys who present at JLC LIVE too is a good one. Jed Dixon walked me through rough framing circular stairs, Gary is giving me photgraphy lessons (lord knows I need them), Mike Sloggatt is letting me work with him.
So what bothers me is that the overwhelming majority of posters and authors associated with the mag and the forum (since many of them are assiciated with the forum I mention them here) are respectful and willing to share, I feel that this thread and some of the comments made in it are way too broad.
At the same time, it really irks me that such a small amount of guys can really make the environment such that many won't/don't post, enough that people feel the need to vent. That in spite of the really great posters.
Just my rant. I think too many don't appreciate the wealth of knowledge and experience that these forums provide. They shortened the learning curve on so many different tools, techniques, materials, etc for me that these forums are worth their weight in gold. Too bad others abuse that.
Edited 4/30/2007 6:10 pm ET by Timuhler
I really hope that doesn't sound rude or arrogant because I don't meant it to. FHB as a magazine is less valuable to me personally because the really great articles that I can learn from are fewer and farther between. Why? Because the mag has shifted focus to more DIY.
I agree with you completely on that one.
I used to hang out at JLC a lot. I can't say I've even read that forum in at least six months or so. I've got a big mouth, which is no surprise to most of you. But I found it really hard to keep it shut when all the blowhards would start with their crap. I swear there were guys over there who only posted when they saw an opportunity to jump on a pig-pile. Safety in numbers and all. What I like about BT is that if you get into a beef with someone, most people stay out of the way and let you handle your business.
But to JLC's credit: There is certainly a load of talent over there and a lot to be learned. In the long run, it's probably to my disadvantage that I don't read there more often. I just hate having to wade through the BS. I have this theory in life... Don't do or say anything from the safety or anonymity of a vehicle or the internet that you wouldn't do or say in person in a public place. I don't cut people off in line at the supermarket, so I don't do it in traffic. And I don't talk 'tough guy' any more on the internet than I would in person.
I come to online forums to relax, learn, maybe have a good laugh. My work days are filled with enough conflict, aggravation, frustration, etc. I don't need to get into a "let's whip 'em out and measure" type of pizzing match with some sausage on the other side of the country to make my day complete. And I certainly don't need to qualify myself to anybody when it comes to talking about my trade or my business. View Image
Here. Here. Very well said.
Who dares, wins.
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/
Word.View Image
True dat.
I got into what I thought was going to be the usual crap over there yesterday. Turned out the guy came off wrong. I was actually suprised. I saw a reply and right away I thought "here we go again."
Every time I feel like I can walk on water I head over there, only to find out that I fall in. Unlike the rest of the guys there.
Brian,You have an excellent code you live by. It would be entertaining to see what would happen to some of the big mouths hiding behind their computers, if they were in the same room with those they bash.Last week I started a thread at the JLC trim forum called "Mopboard Mobile" of a gadget with a seat and knee pads on wheels that I tried out for running baseboards in comfort (I get to put over 1000' of baseboards in some houses). So a few guys made some crude comments about it, someone photoshopped a fallus in where the seat was, then someone calls kneepads "San Fran. Sandals", etc.I attempted to get things on track, even admitted the thing looks funny, but asked for the garbage to stop...then get called "Asswood" Real mature.Reminds me of what you said about the "Radio Smashers" here...I don't know what kind of "Pros" they think they are. I think the poo slingin' in the Tavern here is higher class.Here is the thread...I don't think I'm too uptight...but, whatever:http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36540
OK..anytime y'all have any trouble with some ego tripper lamebrain over there...come git yer boyz from over this end a town..we'll give em'what for.
No one messes with our people...right?
Bloods n da Crips ain't got nuttin' on us..
They don't call us "Break_your_head_Timers" fer nuttin'...lol
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I am an occasional poster on the JLC Building Science forum. My view: most intelligent posters on the JLC forum are interested in being helpful and in exchanging information so that we all learn together. It is certainly true that some posters -- a minority -- have attempted to be self-appointed police officers trying to sniff out and reprimand crypto-homeowners. To his credit, the moderator of the forum, Mike O'Handley, has stepped in on several occasions to reprimand the self-appointed police officers, and has urged everyone to treat questions with respect, or to simply ignore the posts that don't interest them. He has specifically declined to exclude homeowner questions, many of which are interesting. That doesn't mean that all problems with the forum have disappeared. But a few poeple in this BT thread are tarring everyone at JLC with the same broad brush. If we want to be civil, let's all be civil. Here's a suggestion: BT posters should try to be civil to JLC posters, if possible, and try to avoid generalizations. There are probably a few loudmouths on all forums; ignore the fools and move on. Make an intelligent contribution on any forum, and you will help raise the level of discourse for everybody.
Martin,
Surely you might admit that you are more than an occassional poster over there. When I see your name in a thread (often), I read it. You really are a great source of knowledge for all of us. I myself have learned a lot from you and I thank you for you efforts to educate the rest of us about building envelopes, heating systems /windows etc. You are a great resource. Your presence on JLC serves to moderate the tone somewhat.
But, the moderators really need to step in over there. Read Myron Fergusons intro to the drywall forum and he sets a respectful tone. Other moderators likely never even read their forums. Some of us bounce between trades and are great at one, but need some info about others. I'm a Vermonter like you, and I need to know a fair amount about a lot of trades. I know what good work is in any trade, even if I'm still learning how to do it in some of them. To be yelled at by some 30 year old, or by someone my age (53) who is p**ssed because he's still busting his butt doing grunt work he should have moved out of a while ago just doesn't cut it. Too many angry people over there. lots of Middle school bullies who've never grown out of it. They need a Dr. Phil forum on anger management.
"Too many angry people over there. lots of Middle school bullies who've never grown out of it. They need a Dr. Phil forum on anger management."There is one commenter I have in mind who I have not yet seen contribute anything to the forum accept harassing and haranguing all others over trivial manners and going on long philosophical diatribes. In fact I'm a little pissed presently as this person intentionally misrepresented a comment I made in an effort to make me seem foolish, something this individual does quite a bit. On other forums and online communications, this type of behavior is known as being a troll. Every online forum seems to have at least one.I know I was badgered pretty badly recently for making a gross typing error, instead being given the benefit of a doubt and asked why I made such a gross error, I was jumped on immediately. I just didn't respond, which is the best way I think to handle people like that, but well, sometimes I'm not so good at that.
Oh, lemme guess who that was!
I've ripped him several new ones. It doesn't seem to do any good. He just pours himself another three fingers of bourbon and keeps on typing.
I just noticed there is a response to a post back to him I just put up a half hour ago, I thought to myself, "He'll be back on me within minutes, no doubt." Checking my email for something else and sure as heck, if there isn't something waiting for me there. If there were ever a certifiable troll there, it is he.
I've wondered about your handle, if it doesn't set up some expectations in a couple different directions. On the one hand, it positions you as a feminist announcing yourself in a man's world, and on the other, it's a diminuitive form of woman you've put in one's mind's eye. Like Helen Reddy singing, "I am Woman, hear me plead." I read and watched you for a while to see if you were one of those gals who occasionally show up to troll the guys and see if they can get a sexual response. Clearly you aren't, but i was a little surprised to see your handle in connection with obvious experience and talent that requires no gender ID. This is not a criticism, mind you, only a query. Do you think the handle sets you up for some backlash or people not taking you seriously? (And yes, i realize "Splintergroupie" isn't a dignified appellation, which is why i always carry these brass knuckles.)
Yes, I think the 'handle' does in some sense 'set me up' but then again, I also think that being a female in real life sets me up for a lot of crap in this society, so why hide here? I don't want to hae to remind, "I'm not a guy." That gets tiring. It is a signal as well, "I'm here, please refrain from the boy talk." Which frankly isn't what us first timer women must do? Sure its different, sure its a little prodding of the norms, so oh well. I didn't make the norms about gender roles and frankly don't care to honor them.I think actually if I had put in 'womanbuilder' my expectation would have been to be continually harassed as being a ball cutting feminist. I saw 'girl' as yes, less threatening, but then that begs the question, why should I give a hoot at all?I just don't take these forums quite as seriously as maybe others do. Yes, I have serious positions I take and frankly have spent more time here the last week than I have the whole few years I've been registered at either of the forums. "Do you think the handle sets you up for some backlash or people not taking you seriously?" I don't know what women have to do to be taken seriously, or if they should do anything more than anyone else anyway. I also think that possibly complaining about a few asshats on JLC has gone way farther than I had expected. Most of the people here and at JLC are good as everyone will attest to and has. Yes, more moderation on the JLC forum would be nice, but you know, we all have the option to just not come back. Let the trolls run the place and probably the people interested in positive dialogue will go start somewhere else.Frankly, as I expected there are people over at the JLC forum who have taken offense to what I have said and some have taken my comments personally when in fact they were not directed to them, that's too bad and making me think that this talking should end. One thing I know is that I am spending way too much time on these forums right now and have far more important things to do, as much as I enjoy everyone's give and take. Like I said, the handle I have here and at JLC is just what it is; a handle, its not a bio, if some wish to see it as that, then more power to them. Frankly, even the most obnoxious people anywhere online don't cause me great crippling grief, just some aggravation and I think some very human self doubt and self analysis. Oftentimes, the self analysis is called for as much I'd like to imagine otherwise.
I hope you didn't take my query as a veiled suggestion you should "hide" - not at all. I was simply curious about what i perceived as a mixed metaphor and suspected you'd thought it through. I think this forum's a lot harder nut to crack than real life, where skepticism can be cured by simply working someone into the ground. Whether you personally care to honor the gender roles or not, they exist, just as much as temperature and rain which you can plan for but ignore at your peril. The only constant i've found is that an appeal for decency in the presence of hoodlums acts like throwing blood in the water, as basswood observed in his scooter thread.I can't tell "why [you] should give a hoot at all", but for me, besides being the mother lode of specialists for a quintessential generalist like myself, BT is a fascinating social science project where a person can learn a lot about how the levers work and what happens if you push that button?
"Whether you personally care to honor the gender roles or not, they exist, just as much as temperature and rain which you can plan for but ignore at your peril."agree agree, but I'll leave it at that to save you from my going off on a long winded tangent about sociological nuances and probably stepping into another muck pile.The name was more tongue in cheek than anything and well, its stuck now, so's I gotta like it I guess.And by the way, I'm glad you're out and participating a lot, I enjoy your comments as always.
"One thing I know is that I am spending way too much time on these forums right now and have far more important things to do, as much as I enjoy everyone's give and take."I've always enjoyed your company here on Breaktime and like the idea of more women joining in as it gives a better balance to what is mostly a man's world. You add a lot to the forum.However, you are right in the above statement, and I'm glad to see you say it. The same has happened to me at times with those who like to taunt or 'troll' as you say, and I have gotten pulled in and consequently waste a lot of time. I have found the best response should be a short sarcastic surrender such as "Ok" or " Yes, I see...you're right". And then absolutely nothing more, no responding to them ever again, or if you do make it very light and benign. Don't play their game.F--'emThese threads are a great study in human psyche and what runs people.It's springtime. Go outside and take a walk. I have tomatoes to put in and grass to cut before it rains. Later on, I'll lean on the white picket fence post and converse with my neighbor Howard and crack him up like usual, and then I'll ready my truck and sharpen my block planes for tomorrow's kitchen install.It's all good. Go get 'em kid.
I think we ought to make this site for professional too.........NOT
As long as you, Sancho, Piffin, Sphere and Rez are there, that's all that matters.
Oh....Gunner too. There's gotta be at least one person that's slummin' it.
I though you built girls....
Sigh, another dream dashed, another illusion shattered....
Now I want a smoke again...
" 89188.102 in reply to 89188.88
I though you built girls...."Well, I birthed and raised two of them, committed to make them independent thinking hell raisers. I've got gray hairs to testify to that. So I decided to retire from that job.
'twas a joke, ya know.......
I've got one of each........still growing grey hairs, and will be for the foreseeable future....
Okay, now that I'm here... and I know GB wasn't talking about me... I've had this thread on my mind all afternoon. I guess I'm feeling a need to stick up for my peeps over there? Anyways, 2 points I wanted to make... 1 - Somebody said something earlier about how it's a clubhouse atmosphere. And it is, but that's not always a bad thing. A little while ago, one of the guys had his van broken into, and all his tools stolen; he posted a rant/vent... within 2 replies, people were offering to send him their spares, and by the end of the thread they were taking a collection up for him. Where else on the 'net are you going to find that kind of thing? So when people ask you to introduce yourself before posting, and compare it to walking into the local pub, or somebody's living room, they aren't exaggerating. It really is a community. 2 - DIYers don't always get shot down. Earlier this week, somebody posted an absolute DIY question about supporting a dropped ceiling, and he got some helpful replies. Mostly because he was polite, apologized when the rules were explained to him, and (okay, I'll admit ) it was a slow day. See also a thread started by SusanS - another homeowner who got some useful replies about modifying roof trusses.On the other hand, when somebody comes in with a whole lot of attitude, or assuming that they're entitled to an answer just because, or starts giving grief about the pro-only rules... yeah, they get jumped on pretty quick. But if you look up posts by Online or by Zeleniak, you'll see we jump on pros as well, if the question is dumb or the attitude stinks....Just sayin'
So, tell me BF..is this like coming over from Brooklyn to Queens or more like to upstate NY?
For me going over to JLC...its more like going from Mahatten Island to Long Island.
and on a different note...going over to Contractor Talk from anywhere is like going to Coney Island in the winter...LOLOLOL
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
defending your peeps...Good on you for that. I don't think most here are down on the whole wagonfull over there and we often say how that there are some good and some poor forums over there.on the community thing - "Where else on the 'net are you going to find that kind of thing?"Right here for one thing. I wouldn't doubt that it is similar elsewhere.but that sort of thing can get too inbred too no matter where it is from middle school girl cliques on up... I recal one thread over there where a Q was asked about a certain kind of cut for Fypon railings. I answered it from my experience with a method I have used several times and knew for a fact was the way the Fypon factory assemblers use themselves. I got pooh-poohed and treated like a DIY hack by the regulars who were discussing the problem. I went away from that one figuring if they are too good to take good advice, screw'em. They didn't recognize me but that was their problem nit mine. A couple of years before that, I had been very regular over theere. It was my primary trades forum home before I migrated over here. I had also been one of the users and contractors that JLC treated to a luncheon to pick our brains when it came time to decide how to set up the present incarnation of JLC. I was no newbie but they just didn't know and because of their mindset, I left that discussion.I read there, but seldom post anymore because of attitudes like that. It seems like far too many of them have an ego problem and get defensive like it is some kind of turf war or inbred family.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hey, I never argued that it isn't kind of inbred; just that the small-townish vibe wasn't entirely a bad thing. About which... Me: "Where else on the 'net are you going to find that kind of thing?"You: "Right here for one thing. I wouldn't doubt that it is similar elsewhere."No offense, but could you back that up with a few links? Because I've never seen anything like it before, anywhere else. These are links to the threads about stolen tools:http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35827http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35828http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35878...whadda you got that compares?
BF,
I don't want to get into a pizzing match with you, but Breaktime certainly holds it's own when it comes to a sense of community.
A few year's ago a regular poster fell on some tough times. A Paypal account was set up and many people donated a good deal of money towards helping him out.
I myself have given away perfectly serviceable tools to guys who either needed and couldn't afford or got ripped off. I know I'm not the only one to have done this.
A year or so ago, a Breaktimer in the PacNW got caught in heavy rains and mudslides. He lost a good deal of his possessions and his home was damaged. He reached out for help, and many people responded with donations of money, a place to sleep, tools, food etc.
One guy's computer broke a few months back and he was posting from the local library. Several people offered to send him computers they had laying around.
Groups of Breaktimers got together and volunteered to travel to NOLA after the hurricanes and help out.
I've been contacted many times be people local to me who frequent Breaktime to offer advice on a project they have going on in person with a site visit. I've always obliged and I'm sure I'm not the only one who has done this.
The self-organized (no input from Taunton Press) yearly Breaktime Fest that gets put together every year all over the country and has a remarkable attendance should be evidence enough of the community that exists here. I've traveled to RI, Ohio, and Long Island to attend these fests. Others come from much further away. This year we're getting together in Canada.
A regular poster here recently caught wind of some sort of list of items that Marine's in Irag could use. A thread was started here and someone offered the use of PO Box to pull it all together. The response was overwhelming.
In all, I think the generousity of Breaktime overwhelms that of JLC. Years ago I was a regular at JLC, so I'm not talking out of my azz with nothing to base it on. The very fact that Breaktimers are willing to share advice with ANYONE who asks is testament to this. You don't need to be a member of the "secret tough guy club" to get a little help. We all need a little help once in awhile, don't we?
And there's more. But I think you're probably getting the point.
View Image
Edited 5/1/2007 5:03 pm ET by dieselpig
Edited 5/1/2007 5:06 pm ET by dieselpig
Yep, point taken. I'll stick up for my own, but that list puts my one little example from JLC to shame.
I'll stick up for my own
As you should, because from the sound of it, JLC has served you well. And that's really what counts at the end of the day. I guess we should all feel lucky that we've got some choice in that regard. They're both good forums, just a different style for each. Doesn't make one better than the other.... just makes one better for me and one better for you.
And if you're the unofficial ambassador from JLC... well... they're putting their best face forward. You definitely a respectable representative from that forum. Maybe I'll browse around over there and give it another shot.View Image
Whether they like it or not over there, there are plenty of DIY's who read through the posts. Every time some angry man on Bourbon answers a post by being insulting and demeaning, that DIY'er says to himself " no wonder I'm trying so hard to figure this out, some of those pro's are neanderthals. I'm not hiring one of them". They are bad for business!! I still feel its a great site, but the moderators and regulars need to tighten it up for the sake of the profession.
dieselpig,A well done defense of this community. I knew we were letting you hang around for something!
:)
Rich BeckmanThis signature line intentionally left blank.
Links I ain't got. You'll have to take my7 word for it. We helped one guy with moving costs to get across country. I have helped a couple guys off on the side - Taunton shuts down a thread pretty quick if the site is used for fund raising, tho they jjust let us communicate top compile some stuff for marines in Iraq, and I've head tell of some others helping each other out time to time. Most guys want it kept more quiet.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
As to the handle 'splintergroupie', it does lend itself to such a disarming nickname - 'splintie' - which lets you sneek up on folks when you are feeling 'brassy'.
<g>
_______________________________________________________________
When Augustus came out on the porch the blue pigs were eating a rattlesnake - not a very big one.
Edited 4/29/2007 1:49 pm by Heck
I remember the scatalogical variations on the theme from my earlier days, such as Splinterpoopie. Luckily, "Gabe" lent itself to a few plays on words as well. ;^)
Edited 4/29/2007 4:14 pm ET by splintergroupie
Hi David! - Fancy running into me here, eh? I followed over from a discussion over there, and I just had to mention that I don't think GB is talking about who you think. Looked over her post history, and Rick's been nothing but nice to her.I actually think she might be talking about me...How about it, Girlbuilder? FWIW, if that was me you were talking about, you got me all wrong. When I quoted you & asked about the subs, I wasn't trying to make you look foolish, I was actually asking an honest question. I've been screwed over that way before, and got told "what? business is business, dude" by the sub. For the record, you're one of my favorite posters. Your post on that electrical thread had me going cheering you on - out loud - which got my wife asking me what was going on. FTR, she thinks you rock, too. Hope you stick around, the sexism over there really has been way out of control lately.
Huh?? I got no problem with you at all. Plus, you're my brother's neighbor.
There's 2.5 real clowns over there right now, down from 3.0. Maybe that's an improvement, but it sure sucks compared to a year ago.
Heck, David, I know you & I are cool! Fellow island hermits, & all that... What I meant was that GirlBuilder might've meant me. (Because I did quote her recently, which I thought she might've mistaken my intent... and because I generally post more philosophical rants & such than good trade info, especially lately) As it turns out, she didn't mean me. But still, she didn't mean the guy you're thinking about, either.Lordy! These online communities get as complicated as real-life ones, don't they? Long as I'm posting... I wanted to ask, those who prefer the software over here, what do you like better about it? I'm finding it kind of awkward compared to JLC's. Pretty new to both, though, so I'm wondering what it is that I'm missing...Hi, Andy! - yeah, it's me. I don't hang out much here, I signed up months ago but the other place keeps me busy enough as it is. And it is spring... working on the boat a lot this week. Grinding fiberglass is just so much fun... not! But I'm looking forward to lots of sailing this year.I'll have to load up that disk. I already find that v6 doesn't fit my needs as well as v5 (and v6 is BUGGY!!!), so maybe I ought to try going further in that same direction... less features but more reliable might be the key.(For those wondering, we're talking about Google SketchUp.)
Edited 4/29/2007 3:54 pm ET by brooklynfrenchie
"For those wondering, we're talking about Google SketchUp.)"Oh, I thought you were talking about my CAD program, I've had it for years, great for garage and square house plans, the angles are a little tricky. Its also portable and real easy to boot up, just shake her good and there you go! My son the computer wiz says I won't need an upgrade ever! How about that! Bill Gates eat yer heart out! :)
NO, no, it wasn't you, in fact I don't think its anyone I've ever seen over here. I don't think that person would bother coming over here, far too many to ignore or shoo him off. But lets get off that because I think its not fair to go on about someone who probably won't be here to defend themselves. I also refuse to name this person to a public forum as I think that's unfair as well.if that person was here, I'd confront that person here, but they aren't and I never intended anyone to run with this or ponder it too much. Didn't even think anyone would really care. I'm sorry if anyone was offended.
Yo dude is this you? lol...my etch a sketch friend from JLC?
I spose' so...how many Frenchies are from Brooklyn on these sites.
On a side note...I've been in touch with Dennis Fukai quite a bit..started out cuz the CD that came with my etch a sketch book wasn't working...I "finally" got to using it and I do have to say he has a real nice program between the book and the CD and Etch a Sketch "4.0". He claims he likes 4.0 best b/c on the 5 and 6 there's too much there we'd never use for our purposes..
OK, now back to our regular program bantering : )
andy...
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Thanks Man!I ain't skeerd. We can take 'em! <g>Actually, It's no big deal. As Tim U. and David M. have said there is some great stuff at JLC. Nothing is perfect, but some stuff could/should be improved on.It was good seeing you over there at JLC.You still interested in that victorian castle, or was that just for amusement?Thanks again for the support.Brian
Thanks Man!
I ain't skeerd. We can take 'em! <g>
Actually, It's no big deal. As Tim U. and David M. have said there is some great stuff at JLC. Nothing is perfect, but some stuff could/should be improved on.
It was good seeing you over there at JLC.
You still interested in that victorian castle, or was that just for amusement?
Thanks again for the support.<<<Brian,
I like it over there...and really...its no different than the real world...people wanna mess with me than rock on...if I'm in the mood I'll play...if not? I'll flip ya the bird and keep going and won't miss a beat...life's too short for a-holes to bother me, ya know? For the most part I've only had good experiances over there b ut I have seen some idiot play...then again its not like that doesn't happen over here...its the real world brutha : )That castle? Nahhhhhhh...that wuz pure entertainment,,,even I'm realistic ocasionally...lol.Lucky I didn't post that "over there"...lol.
Anytime ya need a hand jus'lemmie know : )
andy...
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I'm down witchu homie.
>> I'm down witchu homie. <<yo essay im givin you my shout outs rock n ready like speedy gonzalos holmes...yuz gurlz are like killa chill bombs and we luvs ya fa dat.
Tanks woman
avi yamma blood
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Did I tell you, I,m a diyer
Not to rain on the parade, but this forum has had it's moment of flamings and name calling and rudeness to newbies. One guy from Canada was driven off the site by a lot of rudeness--very personal attacks. I've seen some disgusting behavior towards RJW and Sancho here (and not from each to the other either (nor, for the most part, from me ;-) ). I often send people over here who didn't get their question answered at House Chat and a couple of them have gotten jumped so bad I have even emailed them privately to apologize for the rudeness!
I must add though that it has gotten a lot better recently--less personal attacks, more tolerance of "stupid" questions (and I thank you all for that!). But there are certainly posts that can be found from the past where people were at each other's throats for 30 or 40 posts back and forth about someting as non-threatening as the correct techique for mudding drywall (that wasn;t the topic of the posts I'm refering to--I can't remember what the topic was, but in the total scheme of things, it was nothing major).
Anyway, like I say, it's been better recently, but...people in glass houses and all that.
I have wondered how often there might be a thread at JLC demeaning BT for rudeness. I have seen a sinle post or two occasionally there saying something about the goofballs over at Breaktime with the attitude that we are less professional because we can have fun too.But for the most part, I think out attacks are against one another long time members and no on newbies. There are a couple times I can recall though heeping it on to somebopdy who stalks in here and immediately starts swaggering and telling everyne how to do their business as though it was not possible for the trades to have existed ten minutes before they walked in.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hey Brownbagg. Your posts over at eng-tips are so much more eloquent, you dumbing it down for the breaktimers?
jason
I,m sorry. I was kick out of there too.
he kinda comes and goes..._______________________________________________________________
When Augustus came out on the porch the blue pigs were eating a rattlesnake - not a very big one.
Hey Brownbagg. Your posts over at eng-tips are so much more eloquent, you dumbing it down for the breaktimers?
What's "eng-tips"?
I'd assume it's this http://www.eng-tips.comBB can let you know for sure
Edited 5/2/2007 7:29 am ET by FatRoman
Thanks FatRoman.
I just checked out that thread you linked. I'll tell you that if I was moderating that forum, that post would be deleted.
Morons!! Now I'm really bugged.
Cripes. Both of these forums are such valuable tools. The majority of knowledge I've gained has come through education and because that wasn't a formal construction education (I did go to college), my education has come from books, workshops (JLC LIVE) and these two forums. I don't know what I'd be doing, if I would even be in construction anymore if it wasn't for the sharing of knowledge and experience.
I just hate the stereotype of construction workers perpetuated by fools like that.
Hey Tim,
I post at JLC under Andrew R. I also like Breaktime but JLC has more going with business strategies, rough framing and tools. There is a lot more activity here and Carola bust balls here too I see. There are some newer guys at JLC who are changing the atmosphere, hopefully Breaktime is spared from these guys.
Edited 4/28/2007 7:03 pm ET by shellbuilder
Tim,It just occured to me that the Racatac scooter-thing, I posted about, might be good for nailing or screwing down subfloor. You and Joe C. and D.P. should get a distributor in your areas to let you guys try them. Might be fun for a day. Could even make a nice review item for JLC or FH. You guys might be too young to appreciate it, but I could see a tool like that extending my career by a few years.On that thread I started, IMO it is unfortunate that it took such a prolonged turn in an unsavory direction. I don't mind people joking around about that kind of thing, a professional forum is just not the place for it. As the OP, I hoped my request to clean it up would have been respected. Instead it got worse.I'm glad you don't think I was being too prudish...I'm not a prim and proper type. My idea of getting dressed up is grasping my baseball hat by the bill, beating the sawdust out of it, then putting it back on my head...then I'm ready to go out.I'll keep checking in at JLC, more than enough good info to make it worth ignoring the "morons". I did start another thread recently that was well recieved (dozens of posts and thousands of views), so I think I have something to offer there as well. Here is a link to a pretty good thread about tool kits (If I do say so myself):http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35407
Your kidding, right....
That's F'ing sad....
--"Your kidding, right....
That's F'ing sad...."I wish I were.
Right on._______________________________________________________________
Brian,
Do what I do and stay in the Rough Framing forum :-). I check the others to see if something is being discussed that I can benefit from, but the RF forum is a better place to be.
You are missing out. There are a lot great framing threads there.
http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36916Sometimes,then again a perfectly legit Thread gets turned into a name calling/how-to nail walls/cut plates free-for-all.
I'm sorry I left this place.If it were easy....a caveman could do it.
That one got out of hand in a hurry. I was reading that interested in others ideas on tools and then the BS started.
Ripping on you? Darlin', you need to learn when you're getting your lovely back scratched...
I like the idea of JLC. But find that it's just easier to get what you want here. The pros only thing is alright if that's what you want. But I can get as good or better advice here.
Who dares, wins.
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/
As a non-professional I'd like to thank every single person in these forums. People in here are always knoweledgable and more than willing to share their expertise. It is much appreciated!
This thread piqued my interest and as I had never looked at the JLC forum, over I went.
The first topic I went to some poor innocent posted a question about bending standing seam roofing and was rounded on by the veterans for not giving his credentials.
I thought background checks were for day care workers and pilots? They seem to be just waiting to tell someone off. Good advice or not, I don't feel like wading through a bunch of Old Boy nonsense. I'm staying away.
To folks who are established users of JLC, it is a very valuable forum... to me it's more valuable than BT. There is a much higher percentage of seasoned pro users and much less of the repeated beginner questions that happen here. Sorry it's not easier to get some questions answered there, but it's not going to change and anyone who doesn't like it shouldn't go there. I've been a user of this site and JLC both for quite a few years and will continue to use both. BT has a number of very strong posters that make the forum what it is. The two sites are different and JLC is not for everyone.
What is this place JLC? What is the web adress? I'd like to check it out.
Just use this link:http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/index.php
It's the JLConline.com site if you haven't been there yet make sure you bring your credentials with you or else....;)
I went over there and looked around. Followed a few threads. I might stick a toe in to test the waters if I feel compelled. Who knows? I can get on a thick skin if needed.
I won't argue though. It's a waste of time on a forum imo.
I'm sure you'll do fine the sharks don't bite that bad.I stated this thread as a vent of what i saw and could not believe some of the arrogance and " private clubhouse" mentality that was all too prominent. There is some great info to be had over there ,, just tread lightly when asking for help:)
You know, the majority of people are kind and generous there. Some few morons have really painted the whole site in the minds of too many people.
It really frustrates me because I have never been treated badly and I suspect the majority haven't either. It was because the very top tier posters (knowledge, ability to communicate and so helpful) helped me out when I started posting, that has kept framing fun for me. So I try and be helpful in return.
When I start doing trim, I expect the same thing to happen.
I've met a few of the moderators in person and they couldn't have been more helpful either. I've spent a fair amount of time with Mike Sloggatt, some time with Gary Katz, and some with Don Dunkely and it was such a positive experience. I chatted with Mike Guertin at JLC LIVE and he was amazing. I met Bill Robinson in Seattle and he is super nice.
So I think really, the posters who have provided the most help over there and give that forum so much, are not the ones who have been rude.
Now what this thread has turned into is a JLC bashing thread. I'm not sure what the posters here would say if JLC had a thread about Breaktime posters. I'm certainly not going to start a thread like that.
There are issues over there that will get sorted out. It certainly isn't the first forum to have that problem, that is why so many of the forums have "report" buttons or "ignore" functions.
I'll agree with you on most of that.I haven't posted much over there but there is good info and good people too. But when the A-holes chime in it sure does spoil the whole thing real quick. Not to say that there has not been some ripping going on here occasionally but it's typically not done with such attitude.I was only there reading for all of ten minutes the other day and found more than a few posts just being elitist and rude.....not cool IMO. I think I'll go play the guitar for a while and forget the whole thing;)
Now what this thread has turned into is a JLC bashing thread
Hi Tim. I may be naive, but I didn't take it that way at all. Just a few people venting their frustration at a perceived problem, which I think they should be welcome to do. Sometimes we vent here at our unreasonable customers, sometimes at unreasonable building inspectors, sometimes at our frustrations with big box superstores, and sometimes at online forums that don't seem user-friendly at times. Its cathartic.
I've read some posts in this thread from people who appear to have a justifiable beef with some of the posters over there. And I've read some posts here praising the good information and general helpfulness of the site. I don't think anyone is bashing the Journal of Light Construction as a publishing entity, nor the moderators you speak so highly of.
In fact, most of them sound familiar to me, as their work is or has been published by Fine Homebuilding, as well. I'm pretty sure I've read framing articles in FHB by Don Dunkley. Gary Katz is on the FWW website, I believe. And didn't Mike Guertin recently have an artilcle published in FHB on roofing a valley?
The book How to Talk so Kids Will Listen & Listen so Kids Will Talk makes an interesting observation, that has some bearing in this situation: “The more you try to push a child’s unhappy feelings away, the more he becomes stuck in them. The more comfortably you can accept the bad feelings, the easier it is for kids to let go of them. I guess you could say that if you want to have a happy family, you’d better be prepared to permit the expression of a lot of unhappiness.”
Which is not to say we're just one big happy family here, but I personally think that accepting each other's venting is one way we make posters feel welcome here. The house itself was not so much. It was smaller than Buckingham Palace, rather gray for California, and probably had fewer windows than the Chrysler Building.
I sneaked over to the side entrance and pressed a bell and somewhere a set of chimes made a deep mellow sound like church bells. A man in a striped vest and gilt buttons opened the door, bowed, took my hat and was through for the day."--
Farewell, My Lovely (Chapter 18)
Huck,
I'm all for venting. A few of the posts in this thread seem in poor taste. And its 130 posts long :-)
Someone said there are 12000 registered members over there. And there are what less than 10 who are making it an unfriendly evironment. I don't think it'll be long before enough people make a stink and those few people are sent packing or get jumped on when they post.
There used to be a guy that would come over there from Australia and tell everyone how stupid they were and Americans were. He'd be around for about a month once a year. This happened for 3 or 4 years. Finally he was banned.
I hope the same thing happens to these guys.
>>I hope the same thing happens to these guys.
It might, although I seem to be the only one willing to name names. Even Allan just hid behind the cloud of dust that his thread kicked up. Yeah, I felt hung out there...
Dave,
You named the names I would have named. It seems that thread isn't getting many posts. You could start a thread entitled "What Should We Do about OB and WTF?" and then we could all chime in and make suggestions. I bet more would participate in that thread than those two would ever think.
I haven't checked to see if the thread is still going, if it is and some want names, I'll jump in.
Tim
I think that they all need a good sammich some hard mikes, and some clam chowder...that'll fix'it
View Image "We fight not to enslave ,but to set free"
Thomas Paine
Well the DIYers and HO's get bashed continually. Now that I'm retired I can qualify as a DIYer because I don't get paid for doing the same thing as most of you working guy's. Also when you get stiffed on a job you can qualify as a DIYer because you worked for nothing just like I do on my own properties!
Pointless but true.
al
aragorn aragorn is online now
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does anyone have their own web site and if so, how productive has it been? i have been considering either making one myself or having one professionally done for the purpose of advertising and eliminating keeping track of my portfolio. thanks, a
Reply With Quote kreg McMahon kreg McMahon is offline
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aragorn,lots of us do, however, could you fill out your profile, so we know a little bit about you and what you do and where you are. thanks in advance.it will help us to better evaulate your questionTim,I agree with your defense of most of the posters at JLC. Heck, there are some guys here that are not great to deal with.I don't post very much so I don't know if I am that person for anyone.The preceding post that I put here is an example of stupidity. What's the big deal if all the info about me isn't there? Perhaps i don't want it there? A person can't post if all his info is filled in?And what the heck does the OP's info have to do with 'evaluating' his question? Kreg seems like a control freak jackass to me.I'm not disagreeing with you. That guy is just a perfect example of offensive posting.You have been as helpful as the people you claim have helped you. And I have often thought about calling on yours or Joe Carola's knowledge at times.You are someone who doesn't post CRAP. There are plenty of people who don't. It's the rotten apples that stand out.Glenn
I post over there sometimes too and have yet to understand the obsession of a few of them with 'filling in your profile'. I wonder if they're trying to pick up other guys or something. Who knows if what's in there is accurate anyway?
Honestly tho, with the exception of the ones with the profile fetish and a few others, there are plenty of good & helpful people over there.
Mike
Ahh, but you filled out your profile.
How do you know???? ;)
I checked it here at Breaktime.
I have lurked around this site for say arournd 6 years or more and I remember the dogpiles people use to get into. Usually instigated by only a few "Gabe" but my point is what gives a certain individual the right to have a god complex. I am a journeyman with over 20 years of experience in both commercial and lately custom homes. Does this make better than someone else I don't think so. If you think you know everything learn from what you don't know.
Oh. It should also say in my profile that I'm a cute blonde with a nice rack. Since it's in my profile it must be true, right?
Oh, no one ever lies in their profile; they haf vays uf finding out!
Edited 5/1/2007 11:33 am ET by Danno
I will take your word on it.
I used to postover there many moons ago and it wasnt like that. No one cared whether you filled out your profile or not..most just answered the question and got on with it. Why all the drama now.
Who the heck cares what someone puts in their profile. Are they gonna send the mafia over to verify Its accurate. I could post topless Zamboni driver in my profile..whose to say Im not that. i mean sheesh sounds like a bunch of wimmens on my boys soccer team...unbelievable
View Image "We fight not to enslave ,but to set free"
Thomas Paine
Hey since you are a topless zamboni driver, any chance we could get some pics?
I assume you are paid and not a lowlife diy zamboni operator. Nothing I hate worse than a DIY half nekid Zamboni operator
yea nothing looks hotter than a 53 y.o fat bald zamboni driver with a usmc bulldog tatoo...:>)
View Image "We fight not to enslave ,but to set free"
Thomas Paine
The guy who does the ice at our local arena competes every year in a "Zamboni Olympics" against the drivers from several nearby towns. After years of coming third or forth (out of four), he somehow managed to win this year. He used his moment of fame in the community newspaper to lambaste his bosses for not being more supportive. As he pointed out he doesn't compete for himself, he does it for us.
After years of coming third or forth (out of four), he somehow managed to win this year.
I think he's on the juice, better have a drug test done!
Doug
Juice? Um... This is Vancouver Island. He's stuffed to the gills with BC Bud.
I know this is venturing further off topic, but his brother had one of the funniest accidents I've ever heard about. He was driving an old dump truck on his hillside acreage when he slid off the road and rolled it. He was thrown clear and the open driver's side door kept some of the weight off him, leaving him with a broken arm, ribs and other miscellaneous injuries. Lying at the foot of a tree, thanking fate for having spared him, he realizes he has landed on a wasps nest and has to get up and run home swatting them with his good arm.
I don't do the story justice. The indignation in his voice when he tells it - no matter how much you sympathize, you end up laughing - and then he gets all mad.
kinda like Gunner
View Image "We fight not to enslave ,but to set free"
Thomas Paine
Hey cat where you been havent seen your name around inna while ,
View Image "We fight not to enslave ,but to set free"
Thomas Paine
Was getting picked on too much here; had to take refuge at JLC & lay low for a while. :)
AC
hehehe :>)
View Image "We fight not to enslave ,but to set free"
Thomas Paine
Now that made me spit milk and laugh out loud ! (The Picking up Guys comment) Too funny !
Edited 5/1/2007 7:43 pm by karteberry
I seem to be late to weigh in on this issue but......
I don't post a lot, mostly because I learn more from reading than I do from writing. I do asks questions when I need information and Breaktime is a much better place to get an answer than JLC. I am a carpenter and I know my stuff, but I don't know anywhere near everything about everything. It irritates me how the people on the JLC forum attack people who ask questions. I am a professional and I like to get the opinions of other professionals who have different experiences and knowledge. I like hearing from electricians, tile-setters, plumbers.........if I wanted to talk about my own personal trade I would have a conversation with a mirror. Anyway...those guys can be jerks.
Matt
Matt, you can as me any question you want, I dont care if you are a pro or a diyer, never had. I wont waste bandwidth tell you to go somewhere else. its easiler just to asnwer the question. You want have fun, go ask a question at HVAC-Talk.com. They make JLC look like tellytubbies
I have not noticed the attacks that you speak of. I have seen and have been myself irritated when a new person posts a question without introducing themselves to the forum. We need to know your background to give a meaningful answer. And yes it is a pros only forum.
Edited 5/10/2007 2:55 pm ET by T White
So what's you're credentials? You never introduced yourself to me...
cheers
But I didn't ask you anything.
But you're commenting. How do we know you're qualified to comment?
a diyer, you have to pay for your screw ups
a pro, you bill the client for your screw ups
a diyer, you have to pay for your screw upsa pro, you bill the client for your screw ups
Can't back ya up on that one BB.View Image
yes but you have to admit, it was funny
I'll give you that. I have the hardest time telling when people are serious or kidding lately around here. I'm like 0 for 30. View Image
well you can pretty much tell, I'm not serious about anything unless a concrete question comes up.
a diyer, you have to pay for your screw upsa pro, you bill the client for your screw ups
Best line I heard all week. Too bad it wouldn't look good on my business card.
Ed
No problem, just get your competitors business card and add it on!Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Parenting has always been a mix of sage life advice and inexcusable laziness.
I'm sorry, but I can't give you an answer because you haven't filled in your profile.
LOL....View Image
But I didn't ask you anything.
Oh, that's right. I forgot that you are only allowed to comment on posts that are directly addressed to you personally.
Now that we got that straight..........
Dude you gotta come up with a better argument than just denying that an attitude problem exists over there. That's not really up for debate. Even regular contributers to your forum admit that it exists and it doesn't take a whole lot of searching to dig up examples of the BS in question over at JLC. Let's not pretend we're fooling anyone here.
Present a valid argument for why it exists instead of just denying it and maybe you'll get a respectable response.
BTW... welcome to Breaktime. View Image
Seems to me the attitude is with a few over here. Heck with the rules that you agree to when you sign up. Just post and then some over here whine when their called for ignoring the rules for not being a pro. I answer in both forums with due respect to the different forum rules. But it seems that for some they don't understand what respect is.
Whatever you say guy. View Image
All I said is respect the forum rules. Enough said.
No... not 'enough said'.
You're missing the big picture T. I don't think folks are taking issue with the rules over there. The issue some have with JLC is with the tough-guy attitude and mob mentality with which those rules are enforced.... vigilante style. Again... let's not be childish and pretend that this sort of culture does not exist on JLC. It's painfully obvious to an awful lot of people.
You speak of respect..... if you're looking to get any then it would serve you and your forum well if you were willing to acknowledge the existance of the attitude problem over there instead of just pointing fingers back and denying the existence of the blantantly obvious. You seem to be taking it personally like it's a reflection of yourself or something. Perhaps you are part of the problem and not the solution?View Image
snork*
Now that's funny right there!The man who independently plucked the fruits when he was hungry is become a farmer; and he who stood under a tree for shelter, a housekeeper. We now no longer camp as for a night, but have settled down on earth and forgotten heaven. -Thoreau's Walden
I think we ought to go pro, this forum for pros only. because I is a pro at procrastination
and gunner's a pro at protein.The man who independently plucked the fruits when he was hungry is become a farmer; and he who stood under a tree for shelter, a housekeeper. We now no longer camp as for a night, but have settled down on earth and forgotten heaven. -Thoreau's Walden
can I be the pro at proclaiming my opinion on piffin screws?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
you are the ol mighty pro at piffin screwed, in fact I think your daddy named you after piffin screws, he saw it coming. that boy going to be good at just one thing, piffen screws. I will name him that. " Piffin" that will be what hes called.
LOL, you're so much fun to have around I don't know how your wife ever lets you get out to the garage!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"READ MY LIPS, git out of my house" " Go to your garage" "leave the dog alone" "No, you cant take him with you" "LEAVE' "Go paint something" "Dont you have a car to work on" "Leave the dog"
She likes the dog better than you?He bring home a bigger paycheck?;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Proclaim away!
Piffin screws are good for about every...
...project.
in Energy, Heating & Insulation do they talk about pro ducts?
The man who independently plucked the fruits when he was hungry is become a farmer; and he who stood under a tree for shelter, a housekeeper. We now no longer camp as for a night, but have settled down on earth and forgotten heaven. -Thoreau's Walden
You're ticked if someone doesn't fill in their profile.
Is it a rule or a suggestion/request?If it isn't filled in, a poster is jumped on , then ignored.Your profile isn't filled in here.
I guess that's okay, though.Because I don't post much, here or there, at JLC I'm considered a lurker. Don't like the term. So I should waste my time and your's with some stupid comment I may not have much interest in or knowledge of?I'm here to learn and, if possible, give help with my limited experience. I'm not a DIY, although sometimes I feel like it. But, over ther e, you aren't good enough unless you are in the mag, have pictures to post, or have 6000 posts. And those that have alot of posts usually aren't helping anyone.And, I would imagine, they don't have much of a life, either.The comraderie is an added bonus here. Over there, I feel more like the red headed step child.I learn from both, but at both, I've learned to try to stay out of the seriously opinionated threads.Don't need more people disliking me.That's what I have a family for.Glenn
Hey I filled in my profile..It says Im a Canadian illegal immigrant in the US , Carp and Zamboni driver.....( locals here will find the humour in those statemetns ) :>)do you guys check their dl and bc's before you accept them?I used to post over their many years ago before all this eliteism came about, Im wondering if I go back and they see the date I signed up in the forum if I can call those people rookies. and make'em gophers
View Image "We fight not to enslave ,but to set free"
Thomas Paine
"see the date I signed up "but you'll still be listed as a "New Member" cause you don't have enough posts.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
Yea Ill tell them Ive been busy building while they been telling everyone they were or some such nonsense....
Rookies :>)
View Image "We fight not to enslave ,but to set free"
Thomas Paine
so what you saying is, you want this place to be a "Pro only place" too.
Not at all. I respect the forum rules. I am fine posting at both forums.
--"I have not noticed the attacks that you speak of."T White,You have not been paying attention!Here is an example from last week:This is a responce from a "Regular Contributor" (Bullhart) who was being hassled via email by some vigilante......"if you read through the posts, you will see that I have expressed my appreciation for the input..i actually helped me make my decision faster.Thank you again for the repliesThat comment was targeted towards the "gentleman" who sent me the argumentative email about my new presence or whatever...enough said."Here is a link to the thread:http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36623&page=3Someone tired of the "which miter saw" basic questions decided to grill the guy.I got the same crap from someone a few weeks ago after I corrected an erroneous post...the guy sent me a private message asking how I was qualified to correct him. Ironically, he could dish it out, but could not take it:Originally Posted by dixonpeer in correction of Matthew Mobley
--"Sapwood is the outer part of the tree regardless of whether it's hardwood (deciduous) or softwood (coniferous). In hardwoods, it's generally the demarcation point for good color, as in the difference between cherry sapwood and heartwood.Not to be a nitpicker or anything; just making a point about terminology :)"My responce to dixonpeer (prompting him to then attempt to discredit me):--"I should, in the spirit of further nitpicking, point out that Bald Cypress, Tammarack and Larch are "deciduous conifers". There is also the evergreen hardwood Live Oak and countless tropical hardwoods that are not deciduous.Furthermore, coniferous species develop colored heartwood as dramatic in contrast as hardwoods (redwood and cedar are good examples of this). However, most conifers are harvested so young that the entire tree is still lightly colored sapwood. ;o)"I have less than 100 posts at JLC, so some of the "Veteran Contibutor--Carpenter gods" must wonder if I'm a "DIY Mole".All they have to do is read a few of my threads (I do have several popular threads in the Finish Carpentry Forum). I don't need private messages or emails asking to see photos of my work. I think I have something to offer at JLC...but there are way to many Neanderthals acting out at JLC...it ticks me off!
You call that grilling the guy. Man you must get your feelings hurt easy. He even left the thread with a nice post. Lol
--"You call that grilling the guy. Man you must get your feelings hurt easy. He even left the thread with a nice post. Lol"The grilling I refer to did not occur in the thread, rather in an email the poster recieved from some bully. I provided a link to that thread because in it Bullhart mentioned getting essentially "roughed up" in that email.What got the vultures circling, in that thread, was Bullharts claim back at the OP that he was interested in a new 10" SCMS and that he previously owned a Dewalt.Since Dewalt does not make a 10" slider, that suggested to some, that the guy was a poser.Anyway, the details are not important, but it is clear that some goons over at JLC are just waiting for someone to harass.Edit to add:Saw your new thread at JLC...did you round-up a posse?btw most of us here familiar with JLC like it, warts and all...as with most things, it could be improved.
Edited 5/12/2007 12:02 am ET by basswood
You're right. It is a gang mentality at JLC. Most of regulars are probably bored and out of work.
Howdy.
Well, I'm neither bored nor unemployed. I consider myself a 'multitasker'.
I've heard about BT and lurked a time or two until the BT Brats thread was broadcast on JLC last night. After reading through this and other threads, it appears to be a Ford vs Chevy argument. Useful information on both. Take what you need and give when you can. It's great to have an additional resource here.
it appears to be a Ford vs Chevy argument
OK, but can we be the Fords? - Huck (Ford drivin' BT'er)
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View Image"I needed a drink, I needed a lot of life insurance, I needed a vacation, I needed a home in the country. What I had was a coat, a hat and a gun."
Raymond Chandler's Philip Marlowe
I think BT and JLC
are both great!
Edited 5/24/2007 7:28 pm ET by kpatrix
Thats cuz Dodge kicks all their butts no comparison :>)
View Image "We fight not to enslave ,but to set free"
Thomas Paine
Well I went over there yesterday, read a few threads and and the consensus here seems to be true somewhat. They are very helpful for the most part and seem to want to help. As usual there are a few loudmouth "vetern posters" who love to razz & ride anything that might smack of naivete in search of some help, doing nothing except showing the big chip they carry. There's always going to be azzhats like that on any job.
It's just a different scene over there, very straight forward, and I didn't see any of the humor or philosophic poetry that comes through so much of the time over here.
But then again, I haven't hung out there long enough to really know for sure
and don't plan to.
think we all need a group hug. Lets hug..sing gumm by ya and eat a good sammich....that will solve everyones problems
View Image "We fight not to enslave ,but to set free"
Thomas Paine
I'll bring the Guitar!! where can I plug in the amp? ;)
At the JLC electrical forum_______________________________________________________________
When Augustus came out on the porch the blue pigs were eating a rattlesnake - not a very big one.
who are you and what do you do for a living?
(just kidding)
"...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
Oh boy here we go again ;)I am who I am and I do what I do and do it well..:)
I wonder what would happen if I opened a "Screws vs. Nails" thread over there. I can't actually do it, as one of the likely outcomes would be a hastening of global warming. Some experiments you can't try in real life, as they cause global catastrophy.
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
More Hee Hee Hee
you'all keep this up & I'll get over my Nicotine fit.....
xxPaulCPxx " 89188.83 in reply to 89188.1
I wonder what would happen if I opened a "Screws vs. Nails" thread over there. I can't actually do it, as one of the likely outcomes would be a hastening of global warming. Some experiments you can't try in real life, as they cause global catastrophy.Now that's funny i don't care who you are :)