We want a heater this year. Burn barrels are pretty much extinct around here and get you a pretty good fine. I’m not really enthusiastic about another winter of frozen testicles, but you gotta do what you gotta do so I’m gonna try to make it as bearable as possible.
Since we’re framers, this thing is gonna be pretty much in ‘open air’. I don’t expect it to keep up warm as toast while we’re working, but I want something we can sit near during break and maybe break the chill out of us….. basically what you’d use a burn barrel for. The most enclosure it’ll probably ever see is in a basement.
So how many BTU’s should I be looking at? I saw a ‘like new’ 200,000BTU kerosene/diesel turbo heater on Craig’s list for $425. Will that do the trick?
Replies
I suspect that a kerosene like that out in the open air isnt going to do what you want. If you're behind it during break, you get nothing. If you're in front of it, you're a crisp. Not a lot of middle ground. They're perfect for breaking the chill off the basement once the house is dried in though.
I'd almost get an electric oil filled. They're pretty cheap, heat up in about 5 minutes, and for something you're just going to stand around at break, or better yet, keep it on low in the trailer. Then when lunch hits, the crew can all go in there with their lawnchairs and have a roof and heat.
If you do get a kerosene, use kerosene in it. I see a lot of people burning #2 off road and my gosh that'll stink a place up in a hurry. Lots more smoky.
Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
Stay away from the kersene diesel burners.
I hate the smell, the fumes make me sick. Not that I am going to be on your job, but a consideration. The fumes in a basement during a break would get pretty thick.
Get a propane burning salamander, much cleaner. Your clothes won't stink like kerosene. Get two large tanks so you can interchange them as needed.
For god sakes put some clothes on if your testicles are freezing. :)
Now how am I gonna bang nails with 'em if they're covered in clothing, silly? I dunno.... I've been around the Kero heaters before and the fumes never bothered me too much. Too bad I never bothered to look and see how many BTU's they were.
Propane scares the crap out of me to be honest. I have a little 30,000 BTU propane salamander in the basement. I used to use it in the shop I had before I got married. Reason I don't like them is that if the cord gets yanked for some reason, they still keep pumping propane out. Seems like that could be an ugly thing on a jobsite. View Image
Be careful with a propane heater, on or off, below grade, like in a basement. Propane is heavier than air and will accumulate in a low space until a spark (like from that demo saw) touches it off. That's a bad day. Tools flying all over the place.
That's exactly what I was picturing Mike and why I'm really not looking at the propane heaters. I've lost enough arm hair with my gas grill to realize that I'm really not interested in blowing up a building that isn't mine.
If I were the only one on site, I could be all right with a propane heater. But I'm just picturing that thing running in the basement, and someone unplugging the cord because they need the outlet, and having a basement full of propane not too long after that.
Maybe I'm being overly cautious.... I have that tendency sometimes. But I'd rather deal with some Kero fumes than deal with the extra stress having propane around would cause me.
Kero or diesel would also be a little easier for me logistically. I've got a diesel transfer tank on the truck so if we needed diesel in a pinch it'd already be onsite. And I can buy Kerosene at the same station I buy my diesel and gas at already... no extra trips.
So how many BTU's do you think would be appropriate? 100,000? 200,000?View Image
Here's a couple. I'd lean to the high end of heat output. You'll probably fire up near break time and you'll want big heat fast. Says it does 4K square feet. Given the open walls and New England sized homes you'll be losing a lot of heat. Too bad about the burn barrels. That was really a good way to warm up. I guess it went the way of the 5 gal pail as a toilet. Hey, maybe light a match in the porta-john!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Dayton
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-REDDY-HEATER
ditto on sawdaddy.
we have always hated kero heaters because of the stink.
so we stick with the propane units that just run on propane. no electric.
we love em.
once you start getting into the larger propane units, like 350,000, they often have electric blowers on them to better spread the heat. i don't think you need this.
how are you planning on using this ? as a heater for break times ? a general heater to run all day for the guys to heat their hands ?
carpenter in transition
DP - we use 200k or 250k BTU kerosene/electric "torpedo" heaters to heat houses to help drywall mud and paint dry during the winter. Like RW said, I don't think they would work that great outdoors. Anyway, look at this web page,
http://www.all-cordless.com/heaters.html toward the bottom. You can get one at a big box for about $350 if I'm not mistaken. Personally I'd rather buy a new one than a used one for the new price - assuming we are talking about the same thing...
I don't know anything about them but something like this is what I've seen used around here: http://www.backyardcity.com/heaters/
Course I'm from NC and we don't know anything about cold :-) nor do I want to know :-)
Check with someone from Alaska - they aught to know... :-)
You could get one of the propane burners that radiate heat out in a circle - they look like the old Kero-Sun brand heaters - a vertical barrel-shape with a heat element all around. Northern Tool has a huge selection of heaters and you can compare prices. We used a 135K BTU kero salamander the winter before last to heat the basement of the house, it was dried in and out of the weather to work on the timber frame for the house. It was a stinky, smoky mess, even with kerosene. Last winter when the house was dried in we used a 35K BTU propane salamander to accomplish the same thing. Propane still produces some minor smoke because the salamanders aren't 100% efficient, they also produce a shocking amount of water vapor, which condensed on all the unfinished windows and exterior doors. :(
Best thing to do might be to set up a small frame out of some 2x stock, say 8x8x8 cube, put a heavy canvas tarp around it and a plywood roof, and put the heater in it. You can work for a while, get out of the cold for a while, etc. I work routinely doing survey and soils work in the dead of New England winter, and sometimes you leave the truck running just to thaw the 'nads. Even the best Carhartts aren't warm in -10 degrees.
Dieselpig,
I know you're leaning away from propane, but I like the propane heaters that we use because they don't require any electricity. Can't unplug it and have probelms from there.
That said, get radiant heat. Whether propane or kerosene. I started with an 80,000 btu convection heater thinking, hey this has gotta warm you up enough to take the chill off right? Wrong. It is only a handwarmer. Get something in the neighborhood of 200,00 btu. And if you're gonna use it outside and not in a space where the heat will collect and make a warm room, radiant is the only way to go.
We use a 360 degree radiant salamander that someone mentioned earlier. The whole crew can stand around it and get warm at once. I don't like the torpedo's because yer always jockeying for position on 'em. They're nice inside though as they'll warm up a space pronto.
I was in Home Cheapo the other day and see someone is making a combination radiant/convection kerosene torpedo. This might work well but I have no experience with one. Curious to see if anyone uses them and what they think of them.
My 2 cents.
-Sawdaddy
DP:
I gotta agree with the guys on the propane only units and the convection suggestion is a great one. If you are careful with the unit and check for leaks when you connect a new tank of gas (I use a bottle of window cleaner and spray all the connections to look for bubbles) you should be fine. I, for one, really dis-like the smell of the Kero units and would almost rather be cold.
Bill
PS: regarding the smell of kerosene units, if you buy the special fuel they sell in the big box the odor is much less. It is $$$ though.
To tell you the truth though, I'm a little astonished about all the people saying that propane is that much better. I have been in several (under construction) houses that were being heated with propane and found it hard to breath. These were big rental heaters - maybe they needed to be cleaned or adjusted or something. I also own a propane heater; t's a small one - just big enough to "knock the chill off" a house. Notice I didn't recommend one.
As I said though, we only use heaters around 2 months a year here in NC. It is supposed to be in the mid 70s this week :-)
This'll sound kinda strange but when we were framing in the winter we'd bring a couple of worn-out V-8 blocks to work and stand them up to act as diffusers and heat sinks for the blow-heater. the cylinders spread the heat around so it wouldn't light your clothes on fire and and you could store a lot of BTU's in those things when you wanted to sit around and not listen to the darned heater run. Jim
Have you looked into quartz radiant heaters?
Safe, no fumes, portable, affordable, just plug em in.
Quartz are the way to go. Kerosene is bad stuff for the lungs and sinuses! One thing I did last year was start to wear merino wool long johns; those things are the BEST! They never hold any odors after washing and keep me real warm. The company is called IBEX. I picked up mine through a store in Vermont; they're pricey but last and are warm when you're not by the heater.
Got a link on the type of quartz heater you are recommending?
Matt,
Sorry, away from the computer for a day and missed your message. Check out Ebay for some excellent options on quartz heaters. The Marvin 2060 is great and gets high reviews and also the Windchaser convection heater. Marvin's elements can be replaced if they crap out on you. They can be found for about $75 or so. Not too bad for some serious warmth! They are popular on sites here in NewEngland in the winter and springtime.
Don
Would one of those really work (well) outside?
I guess I should have been clear from the onset, Quartz heaters are great when framing and doing some partially or fully enclosed work. Strictly outdoor and siding type work, I might lean toward one of the small Coleman propane models you can just drag around and point it at your legs and butt or put it up on something off the ground. I do have to say again though, that good longunderwear is key! The merino wool stuff has almost no itch and man it keeps me comfy as my baselayer on top and bottom. Several companies make them know and in different weights. I have Ibex but Smartwool are good ones too. Sure helps to have some coffee in the thermos too!
You're probably going to do well with the kero heaters. Football teams with big budgets could afford anything, but use that same type of heater.
In Wyoming we always framed and sheathed the garage first on late fall or winter projects to be able to get out of the wind. At the very least we strung enough reinforced poly around a square section of framing to hold heat.
For some reason propane is just about the only thing I've ever seen used on any jobsite around here. Probably a regional thing, plus I should get out more.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Diesel,
I have a propane radiant heater. It is adjustable, from about 85k-200k btu's. No electricity required, and if the flame goes out, the gas valve closes automatically. It is a Coleman, I think.
As with any portable, flame burning heater, it does need some ventilation. Probably, not a big concern for you, as you are usually done, when the house is closed in.
It is nice, because the heat is all around it. Powerfull enough to take the frost off the house roof, with no windows installed. Handy at times.
If I'm in a semi closed in area, i will let it run enough to keep it comfortable. The adjustable output is nice for that.
If I'm outside, I usually leave it on pilot. Then when I want to warm up, just walk over and kick the valve up, warm up for a minute, and kick it back down. Tanks last quite a while that way. If I'm running it hard, a 100# tank lasts a little less than a week. My propane supplier will deliver tanks as needed.
I put the adhesive tubes nearby, when laying floor decking, keeps them flowing nice. Beats running out to the truck for a warm tube.
Personally, I don't like the kerosene heaters. My old boss had one. It wasn't adjusted well, and threw alot of fumes. Turned me off for good.
Good luck staying warm! I'm looking at my first winter in 20+ years, where I'm inside more than out. Going to be strange!
Brudoggie
Got a link?
Matt,
Sorry, no link. I'm sure it was a Coleman, think coolers and camping stoves. I think it was purchased at Menards, or Fleet Farm. It's 12 years or so since I bought it.
Brudoggie
Just wanted to thank you all for responding and sharing your experience with jobsite heaters. Unfortunately, I'm now completely confused and feel as though I now know less about heaters than when I started. Maybe I'll just give on of my guys the credit card and say "come back with heat". ;)
I'll just pick one. It's gotta be better than stuffing frozen fingers down my pants to thaw them out again.
Gracious, mi amigos.
One can always bring in the grill. Double duty: keep you warm and cook lunch/keep coffee pot going. Or, the heaters that they sell for decks and porches, kinda tall, mushroomy shaped, propane powered. Just a thought, probably not that much radiant output....The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...
heres a different angle if you have a tool trailer. have you ever been around one of these propane patio heaters that stand about 6' tall.they do a excellent job of heating a circle that the guys can sit around but you would need to stand it up in the trailer to store it.larryhand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
I used one of these when scuba diving in winter. It was freakin cold taking off that wet suit in January. worked best with the truck as a wind break. you could get a couple of smaller ones and spread the joy around the work site. Sorry to add to your confusion.
http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-MH42T-000-Triple/dp/B00005LEXK/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_b/102-4916185-7184119
Oh, I tried googling battery powered underwear and didn't get anything useful, unless you need a bed wetters alarm. I think with the new LI-ON tech. available Milwaukie should come out with some V-28 undies for all you outdoor workers.
Stay warm
D.
Your post has me thinking. What if I could design a full pair of Long John underwear that was electric? Once you're on break, instead of standing by a barrel of burning wood (unsafe) you could just walk to the extension cord and plug yourself in and get warm (safe). Like an electric blanket but in the shape of a body stocking. Of course you'd have to make sure you never got them wet in the wrong spot but hey, what are the chances of that happening? What do you think, would you buy them if I got a patent on it? In fact, I'll even name them after you, something like "DIESELS!" As selling point, I could stress the advantages of electric over gas since not only are you staying warm but your doing your part in saving the earth from all the greenhouse gases etc. etc. Once your break is over, you just unplug yourself and get back to work.
I'm rich, I'm rich I can feel it now!
What if I could design a full pair of Long John underwear that was electric
If you included a battery, you could use one of those beenie hats with the propeller and use the wind (or jobsite hot air) to keep it charged.
You design the underwear. Put a computer chip in to control the heat in "zones". Get Bill Hartman to write the control software.And you can call them underware.
Get over it....... The angry going eat you up. ~Brownbagg '06
I've had a few torpedos - they were great. I just gave one to my daughter's boyfriend for his garage/shop. They put out a lot of heat NOW. If you just need something to take the chill out of the air and you're out of of the wind, try a Kero-Sun wick type heater. I carried one with me every winter. Great for thawing out fingers and frozen cans of whatever. Kept a pot of water on top for coffee, soup, tea, etc... Mine is so old the tank and burner assembly is all brass. I've had it since the '50's and it looked old then. I finally had to replace the wick. Walked into my local hardware store and picked one up from the shelf.
My dad was a roofer-tinner. He made a little furnace out of sheetmetal for his soldering irons. Fuel was cut-offs. Once a month he would take me to work with him to gather the cut-offs. He always had a burlap bag of 2X in his trunk. I remember warming-up next to that little furnace. If the fire would die down Dad would swing it around a few times and give it lots of air. The fire would flame-up again and presto! HEAT. I still have it in my garage.
My personal choice is an old used furnace.