I recently bid to modify some old apartment garages for the installation of new roll-up doors (condo conversion). 22 to be exact. My contract says modify openings as required for installation of new roll-up doors. All the side jambs have to be ripped flush on the inside. Some are 4-5″ too high on the top jamb, and have to be framed down, and prepped for stucco. But some are like 1″ too high. For those I added a nice rough-sawn 2×4 flush on the inside, which creates a shadow line from the outside, because its stepped back a few inches.
Today I get a call from the superintendent (a young kid with no real experience in construction). His boss didn’t like what I did. Wants me to tear it out and prep for adding 1″ of stucco. I say that’s kinda silly, I checked with the roll-up door people, and the way I did it is the way they recommended. He says Yeah, they’re here, installing the doors, and they like it just fine.
But that doesn’t matter, the boss don’t like it, you gotta re-do it. So I go out there. He’s not there, but the salesman is. The salesman lives on site, and kinda ‘babysits’ for the owners, who are out of town. I ask him if he was involved in the garage decision. He says no, but asks what the question is. I show him what I did, then I explain what the general wants.
He says that’s silly, why create a cold joint just to add 1″ of stucco. Totally unnecessary. Says what I did is the right way. Superintendent shows up, and says No, the boss says you gotta change it. Pulls me aside and says who signs your check? I say the general, and if he wants me to change it, I will. But he should know that the owners rep wants it done just the way I did it.
I said Look, let me show you something. I grabbed a can of the trim paint. It matches the garage door color exactly. I painted my 2×4 on one of the doors – presto! it disappears. Stand back further than 3′ and you can’t even see it. From closer than 3′ you can see it, and it looks right. Like it belongs that way.
The salesman calls the owners, talks it over with them, they say leave it the way I did it. No reason for further delays if it looks good. Which no one disputes. Even the superintendent admits it looks good, but says that isn’t what matters.
So I later find out that when the general initially saw what I did, he threw a big tantrum in front of everyone. Made a big scene of telling everyone that I did it wrong, and he was going to make d#mn sure I tore it out and re-did it. He tried his hardest to get the sales rep to agree with him, but the sales rep said the way I did it is the right way, looks great, works great, no reason to change it. So now the general contractor has egg on his face, and is pi$$ed off at me. Even though the work I did looks and works great, I’m now the doo-doo man in his eyes.
Can’t wait to see what new joys await me tomorrow.
“he…never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too” – Mark Twain
Edited 7/14/2006 8:57 am by Huck
Replies
Good one!
Sometimes you just have to take the heat.....sometimes it's just ego & powertripping, sometimes it's ignorance, but when you've got the right answer, you have to fight the battle
(mind you, rule 2 is, "pick your battles") ;-)
Now please plan on giving us a followup story, the way Paul Harvey says, "and now, you know the rest of the story."
The rest of the story should be about collecting the check.
We worked it out. Contractor felt I was going behind his back to get the owner's rep to back me up. I explained it wasn't like that at all. He said he wanted a break in price since my way seemed like less work than his. I said I thought my original bid price was fair, but agreed to drop the price a little if he provided me a helper at his expense. He agreed, and we're back in business.
He did try to hold up some of my money, but I pulled off the job and said Call me when you've got my check. He had my check by 2 o'clock. I lost a day, but Hey, sometimes you just gotta get their attention!
Don'cha sometimes wish we could just do the job and collect our pay without having to go through a bunch of cr#p just to get what's rightfully ours? Oh well, another day tomorrow, hope its a better one than this was."he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
Sounds like you work with babies. We get this crap from time to time. I hate it. One thing about our deal is we get paid for any extras. Even if we have to drive over and show them that they don't know what they're talking about.
You should have knocked his helper off the scaffolding and hit him with a shovel and broke his arm. Then told him he owes you five hundred a week from now on, no matter what. That's Sopranos style right there baby.
Tipi fest 06. Crawling the pubs of NYC. Loading up on gourmet food,underwater bocce ball, shirtless camper dudes with umbrella hats. And a chance to sit down and meet and visit with old friends. Get hip to it.
Yeah, its frustrating, and one part of the business I absolutely hate. None of this would have happened if he had handled it like a man, and called me face-to-face to discuss it, instead of throwing his public tantrum behind my back.
The whole job has been disorganized start to finish. The general has had 3 different superintendents in the short time I've been here, and lots of turnover with his helpers too. I installed cabinets in the first 4 units, plus did all the interior doors and trim. Tons of changes and mistakes due to poor planning, etc. I have been paid for all changes and extras so far. And I've gotten along great with the general up to now.
But I figured this day was coming. Even 'tho he's been friendly to me up to now, he's got a wicked temper, and abuses his employees verbally to the point of being degrading.
And another problem is that he's not a hands-on type of general. He's your basic paperwork contractor, actually an HVAC subcontractor who somehow got his general's license and has graduated from wannabe to "now I is one!". So he doesn't have good comprehension of how things are done, what's possible, etc. One example: he asked me (actually told me, I should say) if I could nail a 2x8 trim piece to the headers and straighten out the reverse crown that exists in some of the headers. I said Look, I've got 1-1/2 inches to work with. There's no way I'm going to do anything with the existing headers. They are what they are.
Part of the problem is that when I bid it, he thought all the headers had to be framed down 5-6 inches. Because he never even measured them, which is typical of his lack of attention to what's going on.
And the superintendent he's got now is a kid who's a real backstabber/a$$kisser, with no knowledge of construction whatsoever. In spite of all this however, the money's actually pretty good, if I can just put up with the BS long enough to make a few bucks and get out of there!"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
I love a good circus. But only when I'm looking at it from the outside.
When we install equipment for a bank on a new building we are contracted to the bank itself. Not the GC. They can raise all the he l l they want and all we have to do is make a phone call and his world goes to pot. We have certain exact specs for openings and what not that can't be fudged. If they say it's good and it's not and we show up. ( mind you sometimes we have to drive several hundred miles.) We get paid for the false run, or get paid to wait.
Ohhh tipi tipi tipi. Tipi tipi fest, Yes we're gonna party with the very best. Come over to the tipi. Give Andy all your dough. Cause you gotta to pay. If you want to go. Sing along Y'all.
Tipi fest 06. Get hip.
Glad it worked out for you...
Here is my jobsite politics story... I'll try to keep it brief. This all happened this past week. BTW - I am a superintendent...
Just in the very last finish up stages of building a 48 unit apartment complex - new construction. 6 apt buildings and a small office building. Got all COs the first of July. Myself and the punch guy/laborer have been doing punch work for the last 2 months. I have roughly 40 punch lists that I made for my subs - all of which are completed. This has been the project from hell for me as I showed up on site just after drywall was hung and had a shopping list of big problems that the previous super left un-done. He left the comapny on bad terms. Here is my favorite example - 785' of concrete sidewalk poured at 5' wide rather than 6.5' wide as shown on the site plans. Having the plumbers tear out concrete floors for toilet pipe placements (for the second time) that wouldn't meet handicapped requirements was fun too, but it's all water under the bridge now - almost :-).
Anyway... On site rental manager (8:30AM - 4:30) arrived on site this past Monday. She is also an employee of the company I work for as we have built, own and operate thirty some of these complexes. Not 2 minutes after I walk in the door she starts reaming me out about things about the project she doesn't like. Doesn't like the way apartments are numbered, why did they put that tile by those patio doors like that?, I don't understand how the keys work, etc, etc. A number of punch type items too. I tell her to make a punch list, hand her a form with the unit numbers all laid out (which she hasn't done yet - it's been a week). Re the punch items one in particular - she doesn't like the way the vinyl siding (metal trim) was terminated at the vertical intersection of some half high brick walls on some columns on every ground floor unit, etc, 48 places in all. I say: yea well, I don't think it looks too good either, the siding guys did the best they could, that it was a design problem, but that the project manager, VP, and owner of the company had all looked at it and said that it would have to do. I make the further point that these are controlled income apartments and you aren't looking at a half mil home... She pouts. Apparently, a little while later she calls her boss and complains - who in turn talks to the VP. I get a call back from the home office saying that I need to manage the expectations of this rental manager and that she has called several times to complain about what I consider stupid stuff like missing coin operator's on some pay-to-use washing machines (she never never mentioned it to me) - which have been on order for 2 months.
Anyway, this guy who represents bank shows up to do a final property inspection. I tell him that he needs to get with the apartment manager as she has the unit keys, as my construction key no longer work some units, and that we don't have the master key yet and that I have to go to a meeting... BIG mistake on my part. OK HERE COMES THE GOOD PART... ;-) So, the apartment manager decides that she will go through the units with the guy from the bank and help him do his job :-). You know the rest of that story.... So, later I talk to the bank guy on the phone - he tells me that he just took a bunch of pictures but that he is going to make a list. I ask him what he saw and he gives me some items from memory including the siding/metal trim issue. I'm not sure what other items she "helped" with.
We just got finished with a pi$$ing match with the siding contractor because they said their contract only included vinyl railings for the 2nd floor and the 336' lin ft of vinyl railings for the first floor were not included in the bid/contract even though they were shown on the plan, and that beside they ended up using far more siding than they had estimated. We ended up getting another siding contractor to do the railings and the first siding sub has been paid in full.
So, now we are likely in a situation where we may need to pay another siding contractor several thousand dollars to some how (I don't know how) re-re work the metal trim in question.
She later apologized to me and saying that she had stuck her foot in her mouth (in so many words). Big blabbery mouth at that... I just looked at her with my standard 'you dumb a$$' look...
I can't wait to get back to building houses...
Edited 7/15/2006 9:04 am ET by Matt
Matt, you got my sympathy. I superintended for years, and I've taken over projects in the middle that were all screwed up. Then I had to take the heat for someone else's poor job performance. And basically re-train all the subs to what my standards were. The superintendent is always caught in the middle, and its a very fine line between the general, the sub's, and the client.
Sounds like your ap't manager has been duly humbled, and at least apologized. Now you get to live with the problems she created! Carry on, soldier!"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
>> Sounds like your ap't manager has been duly humbled, and at least apologized << Yea but she keeps up with saying the stupid stuff. I think she is just one of these people who doesn't think before she opens her mouth. It seems she thinks that just because she has the work "manager" in her title she has some control over the building end of things.
I'm taking the chicken way out... :-)
I told my boss that I have takeoffs, collection of bids and pricing stuff to do on 7 house plans so I wouldn't be available to babysit the apartment project for the next few weeks :-) Ok, maybe I didn't use the word babysit... But actually I do have that stuff to do... Boss man is sending over another guy to do punch, etc. for a while :-) He didn't seem totally happy but he is waiting for permits so has some time.
The problem with projects like that is the many variables that can be encountered and the need for you to deal with them on the spot. It is nearly impossible to account for every detail prior to commencement of work and after-the-fact canges are bad for business.
I include the following language in a documment attached to all of my contracts. It is as encompassing a document as I could muster to cover my butt in such and other circumstances. I donlt know the legality of it because I wrote it myself but it does help establish simple ground rules or put to bed debates over judgement calls.
TERMS AND CONDITIONS
DEFINITIONS: The “contractor” refers to Central Diversified Contracting LLC, it’s officers, employees and subcontractors.
The “customer” refers to the party or parties for whom worked is being performed by the contractor.
1. Products: The contractor, at his discretion, reserves the right to make changes or substitutions to any or all products, finishes, designs and techniques specified for use in the contract where he deems so necessary. Such changes or substitutions shall be made with products, finishes or techniques of reasonably equal value or quality. Where specific brands, types or qualities of materials are not specified, the contractor will make all selections or must approve such selections where made by others. No approvals from any other parties are required for the contractor to make changes as specified above.
2. Scheduling: Scheduling for all projects will be set by the contractor. Changes to or delays in scheduling may be made by the contractor without notice when deemed necessary by the contractor. Influences such as customer scheduling conflicts, supply delays, adverse weather conditions, or other means which may cause substantial delays to the timely completion of this project may cause, where the contractor deems necessary, the contractor to engage in other contractual work for other parties, therefore delaying the continuation of work on this contract until other obligations have been fulfilled. Furthermore, contracted work beginning during a delay of another contract may be postponed at any time in order to complete ongoing contracts elsewhere. Scheduling, postponement and continuation of contracts will be arranged at the contractor’s discretion.
3. Non-scheduled delays: No delays to the progress of the contractor may be caused by the customer and/or his affiliates, associates or subcontractors unless such delays are first approved by the contractor.
4. Additional materials: All additional materials of any nature, relative to the contract work and supplied by the contractor or his affiliates, associates or subcontractors, will remain the property of the contractor when not used in the project execution.
5. Utilities: All utilities and necessities such as but not limited to electricity, water, gas and heat are to be supplied by the customer as and when needed by the contractor, at the customer’s expense for the duration of the project.
6. Access: Ready, unobstructed access shall be provided to the work site for the contractor, his affiliates, associates and subcontractors at all times. The work areas shall be free of hindrances and hazardous materials and situations imposed by those other than the contractor, his affiliates, associates or subcontractors. The work site should remain reasonably secure in the absence of the contractor so that others do not enter the site. The customer may only enter the site at their own risk with the understanding that there are a great many conditions and dangers which may cause damage, injury, serious injury or death. Any and all damages caused or allowed by the customer or others not explicitly authorized by the contractor to enter the work site are the full responsibility of the owner. Ample space will be provided to the contractor by the homeowner for the secure storage of materials and equipment at the job location.
7. Payment: Payments are to be made as directed in the contract. Any and all late payments are subject to monthly late fees of the greater of either $25 or 1%, of the amount past due, per month, beginning on the date due and continuing on the same day of each following month until the debt is satisfied. These same outstanding balances will also be subject to financing charges at the rate of 24% per annum compounded daily. If such outstanding debts are not satisfied within a reasonable amount of time, legal action will be taken. All expenses related to the collection of an outstanding debt shall be charged to the customer and will become either an addition to the existing debt or a separate debt at the contractor’s discretion. All payments, in the form of check or money order, are to be made payable to “Central Diversified Contracting”.
8. Changes to contract: All changes, being requested by the customer, must be submitted in writing to the contractor and signed or agreed to in a form of written verification by all parties of the original contract. Such change orders must include a description of the change in the original contract as well as the amount of compensation for the changes. These change orders are subject to all the terms and conditions of the original contract. The contractor may make, without notification, changes to plans relative to the contract where such changes are deemed necessary by the contractor.
9. Excavation and construction: Where impediments exist, bearing on the progress of work by the contractor, such impediments are to be removed or relocated at the expense of the customer. Such impediments are most typically but not limited to utility lines, cable lines and supply lines both above and below ground as well as natural unforeseen obstructions such as solid rock or large boulders below ground which must be excavated or removed and disposed of. Typical ground excavation assumes the removal of soil, clay, sand, and manageable rocks and should be of no additional cost to the customer.
10. Debris and waste: The contractor agrees to remove all contract related debris and waste from the site and dispose of properly unless stated otherwise in the contract. Any garbage not produced by the contractor must be removed and disposed of by the customer at the customer’s expense. The contractor cannot dispose of any hazardous materials, appliances or general refuse unless otherwise agreed to in the contract.
11. Permits, bonds and insurance: Permits, bonds and insurance shall be provided by the contractor and are included in the contract price unless stated otherwise in the contract.
12. Non-compliance: Non-compliance, by the customer, with this contract or it’s terms or conditions as provided herein may result in one or more of the following: the delay of work, incompletion of contract by contractor, additional fees being assessed to the contract by the contractor and / or the termination of the contract by the contractor.
13. Cancellations: Once signed, the cancellation of this contract by the customer may result in a penalty of 25% of the total contract price plus any expenses incurred by the contractor where the cancellation is committed without the agreement of the contractor to do so. The contractor may cancel this contract prior to commencement of work and return to the customer any monies deposited with the contractor for this contract by the customer. In the case of the contractor canceling this contract for non-compliance with it’s terms and conditions, the contractor will return to the customer the balance of money deposited with or paid to the contractor less any amount for work performed, materials supplied, expenses incurred and penalties assessed.
(There are signature and date lines here)
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -Albert Einstein
http://www.peteforgovernor.com