I’m three weeks into a renovation and discovered one of my tools (12″ compound miter saw) missing. As a woodworker, I have a decent collection of tools, most are good quality. The builder I hired assured me that he would be on-site daily to ensure there was no theft. I’m looking for advice as to what I should do. A couple of thoughts that ran through my head……
Fire the guy….. Since he has a deposit this might not be my best bet, and…. It coujld have been one of his guys and he really didn’t know about it.
Call the police?
Withhold the cost of the tool from the next draw?
Withhold the cost of the tool from the final draw?
Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. As you migh imagine, I’m more than a little miffed.
Replies
Was it locked up?
_____________________________________
The cops aren't good for much more then being the middle man between you and your insurance company. But maybe demonstrating your willingness to call them might deter any further theft or flush someone out. Personaly I would demonstrate how mad I was to the contractor that one of his guys is a thief. And I would definatly let him know that it was coming out of his next draw.
Who Dares Wins.
The builder I hired assured me that he would be on-site daily to ensure there was no theft.
Why would your Builder have to worn you ahead of time to assure you that he would stop by daily to ensure that there would be no theft?
Never heard that one befor.
What kind of guys does he have working for him?
What kind of builder is he?
Was he the cheapest price?
Is he well known?
Joe Carola
He didn't warn me ahead of time, I asked him sepcifically because of te tools and htat was his response. He did work for a neighbor and they were pleased. I don't know much about him other than that.
It sounds like you made it a specific part of the agreement (verbal only) that one of the conditions was that he would make sure no theft happened. If that is the case, then you would be within your rights to withold it from his payments. It would be fair to tell him your thinking and feelings. Here's why; if I have a crew of ten guys and only one of them is a potentially thieving type, I probably already have an idea which one and whose neck to wring before I fire him and deduct it from his pay. If I have a full crew of theives, I don't belong in the business.
If you took it to the cops, you might be able to collect from your HO insurance and they would come after my policy.
eidt to add - one more outside possibility is this, When I have a full crew on a site, sometimnes at end of day, I end up with things in my truck that I have no idea who they belong to or where they come from. The newest guys always assume that all the extra tools with question marks hanging over them are mine. It's usually little things like a pair of snips or a shovel, but I had a chainsaw get loaded in once and didn't notice it until the next monday. The owner had loaned it to us to keep from delaying while I ran back to the shop but the guy loading wasn't there at the time. So start out slow with asking about it.
.
Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 9/20/2003 6:08:34 PM ET by piffin
Police, you have to do this to establish a record of loss. Ask your insurance agent as to who to chase for restitution (it may be the bonding company for the contractor). Also, this will go much smoother if you have an "unexplained loss" rider on your insurance.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Chuck
I'd simply talk to the GC and ask him what his thoughts are first.
If his guys were the only people on the job when you suspect the saw was stolen than I can't see what he'd have for a defense especially since you two spoke about this specifically.
How would he feel if it was one of his expensive tools stolen?
Ask him what he would do if he were you.
Collecting from HO insurance to me isn't worth it other than for thousands of dollars being your deductable makes it not worth it I'm sure, and not to mention, in most states afyer three claims they drop you.
If I were you and I was (I had this happen to me in a very big way on my last big job (spec house). I'd "definatly" be worried cause if it happened with such a large obvious tool imagine what else this lil' pea brain is stealing.
Deal with it RIGHT NOW!
BE safe
andy
True compassion arises out of the plane of consciousness where I "am" you.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Don't cha just love it when all our flaming responces are directed at the same direction instead of at each other?
Thieves! Islam has one good part at least. The punishment for stealing is pretty effective..
Excellence is its own reward!
<<<<Thieves! Islam has one good part at least. The punishment for stealing is pretty effective.>>>>>
And we agree again.Big time!!!!!
Be well Piff
andyTrue compassion arises out of the plane of consciousness where I "am" you.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Piff
since you mentioned Islam I had to post a pic of my newest helper (archy student) Adil......too funny..you should hear the stories already...bwahahaha
Edit: and no, I'm behind the camera not in the picture.
Be an equal oppertunity employer
andy
True compassion arises out of the plane of consciousness where I "am" you.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 9/20/2003 6:31:50 PM ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)
Yadil has a handsome smile.
Excellence is its own reward!
"Edit: and no, I'm behind the camera not in the picture"
Andy.
Greetings. Ya have to learn how to post less than 80K .jpg's
Don't know why, but even for me that pic took a few seconds.
But.....Obviously you are getting things done AND still have time for BT.
Jon
This probably does not apply to most of you, since I work in a production-type atmosphere, but we have experienced Horrible loses lately.
Someone broke in through a bathroom window and stole an installed french door ($700-800).
We also had 14 windows stolen, once again, they broke out a window of a "secured" house where they were being stored to get in.
We had two recently-purchased temp-power spider boxes and cords ripped off in broad daylight. ($3,000+)
Good news though, we finally caught the 13-14 year-old kids who had been vandalizing our jobsite. ;-)
They broke in and burned holes in new carpet, kicked in the fridge, started a fire in a garage, found a utility knife and carved lots of foul words in the hardi-board siding, urinated wherever. . .
Thankfully, our astute asst super finally encountered them walking through the jobsite one day, and promised them a job at $15 per hour. He asked for all of their info: Names, Addresses, Phone #'s, their parent"s names, etc. Our police were able to arrest them, due to their finger prints. They all have records at their young age.
Granted they are probably not the ones who a stealing stuff, but WHO are the parents who raise these type of kids? ?
Yeah, I know, we definetly need a security company to partol the eves and weekends. . .
Jon
any better?
Its the lowest Irfanview goes...plus I cut it in half
aTrue compassion arises out of the plane of consciousness where I "am" you.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Smaller.
Joe H
Your graphics program must be on viagra.
; )
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Yup, I got it from Hubcap.
Joe H
"Jon
any better?
Its the lowest Irfanview goes...plus I cut it in half"
Andy,
Yes it is but you are using .bmp format which I think is not as compressed as .jpg. You camera should be able to take 640 x 480 rex .jpg images. They are typically only ~40K and fill the screen for most users. On my camera, the default rez is pretty high....19?? x ???? something. I've learned to (as soon as I turn it on) press the OK button, left arrow button, down arrow buton, OK again. Done. Now I'm shootin' postable pics.
Should be some similar routine on yours.
BTW, How's the house project. Cold weather is approaching. will it be sealed by then?
Jon
"...and no, I'm behind the camera not in the picture."
Kinda figured that. The guys in the pic are fairly good looking.
(Sorry - Just hadn't given you a hard time for several days...........)"As soon as a man climbs up to a high position, he must train his subordinates and trust them. They must relieve him of all small matters. He must be set free to think, to travel, to plan, to see important customers, to make improvements, to do all the big jobs of Leadership. [Herbert N. Casson]
Ron
Thats ok....you're right!
Be stunning
andy ; (True compassion arises out of the plane of consciousness where I "am" you.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy,
Let's try this.
Joe Carola
Well, for what it's worth, a quick inventory seems to show that this is the only tool missing, which is of itself curious. At the GC's suggestion, I called the police and filed a theft report. GC has agreed to replace the tool. I guess you can't ask for too much more than that, other than for it not to have happend to begin with. I guess I'll spend tomorrow packing up tools. I really didn't want to have to move that much stuff to my temporary quarters, but I rekon removing temptation might be the wise thing to do........
As a side note, we just had hurricane Isabel blow through and there are still lots of traffic lights out occupying a lot of time for Police. Despite that and the fact that writing a police report for stupidity is not the best use of their time, the officer that responded could not possibly have been any nicer. He is a credit to the force. We're lucky to have guys like that.
For $80 a month I rented a metal 40'x8'x8' storage trailer delivered to my property....
Fantastic!!!!!!
Be safe
andyTrue compassion arises out of the plane of consciousness where I "am" you.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I rented a 20 ft conex so the HO could move most of their excess stuff out of the house during the remodel. Also cost $65 a month, so looks like you got a better deal.
Do it right, or do it twice.
I shopped around a lotTrue compassion arises out of the plane of consciousness where I "am" you.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I don't know what the situation is like where you are building........we used to push all the tools into the way back closets or into a bath tub.......srew a sheet of ply over the closet....leave a few things lying around (noisy things) to trip over in the dark.
If a thief can't grab it and run he's probably gonna get the hell outta there quick!
Eric
It seems like the GC did the right thing, but who stole the saw?
I went thru this on a job last year, and it ended up that neighborhood youths were heisting the stuff. As well as the place was secured, they had all night to jimmy the place and have their way, and they hit it three times.
So, the really right thing to do is get to the bottom of this, and determine, as best you can, who is responsible.
It is great to have the GC cover the loss, (even tho your first instinct was to fire him), but is that really fair? My contract puts the burden of material ownership onto the homeowner, installed or not. His assurance of preventing theft by being onsite was a verbal assurance, also specifically excluded in the contract.
So what do you think? The GC stood up, without question. Do you now take the money and run, and now properly pretect your possessions, as you should have from day one?
My feeling, simply based on info known, is tell the GC thank you, but I will accept the loss. You will score points far in excess of whatever your stupit saw was worth, which real value is maybe $100.
Perfect.
Chuck, if you are ethical at all, you will not accept reimbursement until you know where the saw went to.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
QT
I can't agree more...good post!
What more could anyone say?
Be well
andy
PS....Leaves changing colors up there yet?True compassion arises out of the plane of consciousness where I "am" you.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"PS....Leaves changing colors up there yet?"
Just a bit on the Red Maples. Why, you in a hurry for snow? I'm still trying to figure out where summer went to.
SNOW??????
Paleeeseeeeee....give me some drying in time before snow comes.....gulp!
aTrue compassion arises out of the plane of consciousness where I "am" you.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy,
Your photo was a .bmp image which is generally higher quality but to much information for emailing or posting. A .jpg image is just as good to look at for most purposes and it can have a tenth as much digital info for the same size display.
So what you want to do for posting, is to open the photo in irfanview, resize it to the appropriate size for viewing, ( and set the pixels per inch to about 72 to 120) and then go file>Save as > select jpg from the drop down save window for file type. You might want to give it a slightly different name/title so you keep the original.
Excellence is its own reward!
piff
In Irfanview I had the 640 box checked which is the smallest size they have.
What am I missing????? and where do get the drop down box that says jpg.
I go into "image" then "resize" and check the smallest pix box then save.True compassion arises out of the plane of consciousness where I "am" you.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Click "Image"
Then "resize/resample"
Pick the "640 X 480"
Then click "O.K."
Oughta be easy - Even for a New Yorker.........................(-:"There are no office hours for leaders." [Cardinal Gibbons]
Right, or you can choose any size on the left.
To save as jpg, go to file/save as and choose the file format there. If you don't save your changes, nuttin happens.
Now, what you all missed when converting from bmp to jpg were the hidden layers in Andy's original pic, but I don't miss much...
QT
too funny dude. Think I'll Email that to Adil.True compassion arises out of the plane of consciousness where I "am" you.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
you are using the selection on the right of image sizes. Look on the left where it has a button for"Set new size" That wakes up the boxes for custom sizing as small as you want. The 640 width is fine though. It is the fact that you had a bmp in stead of a jog that increases the file size.
Then, ( this is like most other file management) you go to file (on the upper left in the menu bar)
file>save as
that brings up a dialouge box that looks like what I show in this attachment.
Near the bottom of the bx is a "save as type" form with drop down menu. Hit the little arrow near to the cancel button and you will see as I show it.
Select JPG before you hit the save button.
If you don't change the name a little it will replace the original file.
Excellence is its own reward!
Thats the part I missed...save as where the jpg screen drops down.....tupid me (smackin' meself aside the head).
Well did it work?True compassion arises out of the plane of consciousness where I "am" you.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I see you have learned to save as gif too.
That is generally better for line drawings like the plans or cad posts while jpg is the photo way to go.
I have saved your plans to file to open in irfanview. When I zoom in the text is fuzzy but I can make most oif it out. This is a skill that will help you when you are e-mailing plans to clients too in the furture dude. I also use pdf files for that. You can run a google search for pdf995 oir 995pdf which is a free pdf wwriter program. .
Excellence is its own reward!
piff
wanna give me a week here...lol...I think framing starts next week against the building inspection process.....
If I wait for them I'll be framing in the middle of the winter.hence my dig camera.
MAybe I'll catch you at that FHB thingy in Mass.? OI might just do that one being I had to miss my Ram Dass week this week.
Be well
andy
Thanks
andyTrue compassion arises out of the plane of consciousness where I "am" you.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
i'd think about it except...
My life just hit high gear. Permit approved lat =night and OK from owner to advance today with the house mover and foundation guys chomping at the bit to go ahead with work so I'll beon site here for maybe twelve hours a day for a while..
Excellence is its own reward!
Mozel tovTrue compassion arises out of the plane of consciousness where I "am" you.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
when is the FHB thing in Mass and what part of Mass?
Corny,
(sorry, couldn't help myself) Its funny you should ask cause two seconds ago I asked Piff if he was going.
Its in Worchester, MAss.
You going?
ac or jc depending if we're in this or my last incarnation...lolTrue compassion arises out of the plane of consciousness where I "am" you.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
When is it?
and Worchester, Mass isn't very far from Boston is it? Might have to schedule a visit to the parents.
The Count-Down begins, 81 days left
Edited 9/25/2003 1:23:55 PM ET by CAG
Check this out. Convert your file to PDF for free from this website without the need to buy or learn any software. Send them your file, they send it back as PDF.
http://www.gobcl.com/index.htm
take your tools home......never knomn a carp who didnt w/o getting ripped off...
Hey splurt, you splattered here by not reading his description of the problem. This is his house where the tool got stolen from..
Excellence is its own reward!
Step one: Double and triple check that it is really gone and not just "stored in an out of the way spot so no one will steal it", borrowed by a buddy who "knows you wouldn't mind" or isn't at the other job" how did it get there?". Going ballistic too soon could get embarrassing if there is a more innocent explanation.
Two: Check with the insurance company. Is it covered? Do you need a police report?
If its covered stern words and dire threats of action if this happens again should, IMHO, do. If not. A simple explanation of his responsibility and inquiry of: "How would you like to pay?" would be a good start. A surprise shorting of a draw feels too underhanded for my tastes. I'm not sure of the legalities of withholding agreed to payments. Maybe you could reserve this for a last resort if an accommodation cannot be negotiated out in the open where everybody knows where they stand and what is expected.
The truth is you dont know what happened to the saw. I would probably not let the GC pay me for the saw unless he made some admission that he had a very good idea of what happened to the saw, such as one of his guys took it. I have had tools disapear from a job where I was the only one there, I doubt that the homeowner took them. It only takes a few seconds for a thief to see an open garage or whatever and make off with something.
The tool in question was bolted to a stand. Whoever took it took the time to unbolt it which would have required wrenches and some time. I am the homeowner, so it wasn't me.
If thats the case, and you really think someone working in the house took it you have a problem on your hands. I dont think I could trust these guys in the house any more. You cant lock everything up, if you are sure one of them took it I would fire them. By the way I meant that the home owner probably didnt take the tools in my situation. I have also seen guys steal a battery worth 10$ out of a car its bolted into in less than a minute. Im not defending whoever stole it, or the GC, but people who steal for a living get very good at getting in and out right under your nose.
Just got off the phone
Folks came home from work amd found their DBL wide modular that they are remodeling stripped
Some body took their:
Windows out of the walls
Already hung doors inside and out.
Installed toilets
Installed vanities
Installed HE and operating furnace
Water heater
Appliances
Not yet installed kitchen cabs and sheet vynal
And all of their tools.
Cut water lines were left to run. It's in the teens out there for temps.
They were sleeping on cots and living in one room as they worked
Those were taken too along with their grub and bedding.
There seems to be no limit on deep low lifes can dig.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Geez..I thought only the IRS did that?...seriously, sounds like a revenge or 'inside' heist. I knew a contractor with a bad rep for screwing subs and that happened to him, I am not SAYIN your person was responsible..but something ain't normal there..imho.
These people called asking for help.
They're husband and wife putting together a place to live.
The local yard opened back up and is delivering sheet goods and other stuff Tonight to get some things under control. Also loaning them some temp heat.
BTW I thought same. Somebody is PO'd at them.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
I wish them the best of it..and that they castrate the perp(s)..
Why be so kind...
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
You are being too nice by half. The lowlifes in question not only stole property, they stole shelter frome people living in an intemperate climate.
Personally, I'd be highly tempted to suggest that the hoodlums involved be used to test for hungry bears.
But, then again, I've been told I am insensitive towards theives, too . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
There was a situation in northern California somewhere in the Sierra foothills where thieves stole an entire cabin. Took it apart and removed every stick of it from the property, which was isolated deep in the woods. Took all of the furnishings, building materials on site, well pump and piping, everything.
I usually (used to) build in the country and lived on site with a gun. Have more than once been awakened in the middle of the nite by cars backin in and lining up for a quick get-a-way. I'm really glad I scared them away and never had to fire on anyone cause I think I would have gotten into trouble with the law....even though I was protecting my person and my stuff.There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
The trick is to let them in and then get between them and the door. When they start to leave, tell them to stop. If they stop, well and good, you call the cops and have them hauled away. If they keep coming after you tell them to stop, then clearly you're in imminent danger of death or grievous bodily injury, and it's boom, boom, out go the lights. No trouble with the law at all, at least in any civilized civilized jurisdiction.
A friend confronted a burglar. The would-be thief was unarmed. The HO had a shotgun. He realized that if he called the police the guy would skate. If he let him go he would learn nothing. If he shot him the HO would have legal problems, at least for a time.
His answer was to toss a large but old and rusty knife at the burglars feet. Then, after chambering a round by racking the slide loudly, ordering the burglar to pick up the knife.
According to his his account the thief looked puzzled and then shocked as he realized that he was being set up. He refused to pick up the knife. After a few moment the intruder was allowed to leave. He knew that the HO knew how to shoot him and get away with it. He knew he had cheated death.
Knowing my friend I'm not entirely sure he wouldn't have shot him if he had picked up the knife. He did comment that putting the knife in his hand after shooting would be easy. By any means the area, which had previously been burgled repeatedly, remained burglar free for quite some time.
Word arrived a few minutes ago.
Another place was hit in the same fashion.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
I'm not big on vigilante actions, they do have a place but mostly it is something to be done privately, but I have seen at least one case, where I live , where three or four houses were burgled in a small area. The neighbors, including myself, made a point of driving and walking through the area at odd hours. We didn't catch the guy as such but we noticed one guy acting strangely. Walking where he had no business and reversing directions abruptly when he sees that he is being watched.
We mentioned this to the police detective who was investigating the burglaries. He looked into the guys background and discovered several outstanding warrants in another state. He was extradited.
Detective said he was still making a Florida case against him for the breakins based on fingerprints and a shoe print on a door. He said he would be extradited back for trial and any sentence tacked onto his incarceration in Tennessee. Not sure he was the right guy but the breakins stopped after he was arrested.
It is a small world around here.
Some body some time some place will all conect and that will be the end of the problem.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
I read the title of this thread. But I didn't realize it meant theft of the entire jobsite !!!
: |
Live, Love, Forgive and Forget
quittintime
Might as well have been...
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Make ya glad ya don't have " wheel estate" they'd take the whole 9 yrds..single wide on rubber..house gone.
FWIW department...
The crew that stripped the trailers near me were busted yesterday...
Somebody tipped off the cops
Found were construction material, appliances, tools and equipment.
Vehicles, all types of trailers and heavy equipment.
Trailer full of dinosaur bones (100k worth)
Edited to say that weapons and drug charges were added...
BTW they were from out of town and evidently ranged a wide area
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Edited 2/16/2004 10:45:10 PM ET by IMERC
Imerc,
That's really great news! Hopefully those folks will recover some of their belongings. . .
Dinosaur bones?
The stole a trailer belonging to the Musem of Natural History.
That what was in it
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Let's add 3 more arrests to the oringinal 5...
Add check forgery, mail and idenity theft to the stack of charges... Also the stuff they had inthere possesion said they were operating state wide.... Hardest hit were CS to Denver....
The rumor mill says that one of the female members of the group got PO'd at one of the male members and turned him in..... Hence a domino effect.
CAG keep yur trash in Kansas will you please....
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
You know,
If they had put that kind of energy, motivation, and organization into a legitimate undertaking, they could have been very successful. And never would have had to worry about being arrested.
Posting at Breaktime should not be a full contact sport.
quittintime
It's good that they were... WTB that this is only the tip of the iceberg???
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Add 4 more bodies to the aressts and a meth lab...
There is stolen property from 2 years ago being found here.
FWIW if anybody is in Colorado and on the I25 corridor and missing anything they may want to look into this...
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....