I am about to do a major kitchen remodel. I am in a 1960’s ranch house with a galley kitchen. My plan is to take out the walls separating the kitchen from the den and dining rooms. The walls between the den/dining room & LR areas are already gone. So this will be a fairly large, open area. (I can’t wait!!!)
My dilemma is the kitchen draft situation. My plan is to put a range in that will have me facing the den area. Originally I had planned to buy the Jenn Air range that has a down draft. However, I haven’t found many people who like that. So I’m trying to figure out a different solution.
I was considering putting something into the ceiling above the range. My contractor says that typically the range hoods are 28 to 30 inches from the cooktop for performance purposes. I was thinking if a more powerful fan was put in it could be higher. I don’t want something filling up that space that I’m going to open up. I like the chimney style, but I don’t want it obstructing the open view there. Is my idea totally crazy? I understand there may be a noise issue with a more powerful fan but I’ve been told there are quiet fans that might do the trick.
Any and all thoughts/suggestions are appreciated.
Replies
The hood has to be close enough to the range so it can remove heavier items like grease.
The higher you go, the less likely your fan will be sucking air off the range compared to sucking air out of the room first.
If you put in a large fan and do not have any outside makeup air, you will create a whole slew of problems, including making chimneys downdraft.
WOW! I don't think I feel any better. I do appreciate your comments though. I don't fry a whole lot. And, someone has suggested the downdraft might be okay in that case. I've heard so many say they don't like it though. I just hate to spend a whole lot of money for something that's not going to do a good job. I've seen pictures of the pop up things. Don't think so. Thanks again for all your comments.
Downdraft doesn't cut it, as stated, if you do any real cooking.
30" is the code minimum clearance IIRC. You could consider a remote rooftop ventilator to reduce noise (but a bigger unit on the roof) - I use this one, typically:
http://www.ajmadison.com/ajmadison/itemdocs/Care_&_Use_Manual_19-12-182H.pdf
View Image
Jeff
Edited 6/18/2009 7:07 am ET by Jeff_Clarke
We have a downdraft Jenn-air range--electric oven, gas cooktop. Oven is nice. Gas burners are nice. Downdraft vent-not so nice.
Steam from tall pots of boiling water will not vent downward. If you turn the fan on high with the small stove burner on simmer, it will suck the flame out.
Stupid design. I'll never have another downdraft.
But they *look* cool...
:)
Big exhaust hoods that are actually used and installed without makeup air in a home are just as stupid.
I agree - and I set up a makeup air system using a motorized Honeywell intake air damper.
View Image
If anyone is interested in this setup (relatively inexpensive home makeup air setup) let me know and I'll post information on it.
Works great ;o) - the tricky part is activating the (24 VDC or, the more current ones, VAC) damper off a variable-speed hood fan control.
Jeff
Edited 6/18/2009 7:13 am ET by Jeff_Clarke
I'm certainly not an expert. So I don't know what "make up air" is. :( Wish I did. I spoke with someone who sells hoods yesterday. She said she thought you could go as big as 35 inches above the cooktop with a hood a size larger than the cooktop. I really need to find someone local who builds them I think.
make up air is air from the outside to replace the air you exhaust out"this dog may be old but he ain't cold. And he still knows how to bury a bone."
Lattimore
http://www.rehmodeling.com
Right - and with a minimal 130 CFM range hood it isn't much of an issue - but with a high-capacity 900 CFM - 1200 CFM hood and a relatively 'tight' house you can cause backdrafting of other vented appliances and stress the hood exhaust.
Jeff
We the same thing you are doing - opened up 3 rooms into one. I was worried about the visual impace of the vent hood, but performance was a must. We have found that the visual impact is minimal. Hood is 30.5" from the cooktop. 36" hood, 30"" cooktop.
Just got done stir-frying and there is minimal odor. It is kinda loud on top speed but really works. Includes dual 4-speed fans and 4 lights. I did NOT want the glass version - seemed lika a cleaning nightmare and the retailer confirmed that.
View Image
Edited 6/18/2009 10:02 pm by wrudiger
Oh, that is beautiful! Unfortunately, my space is not that large. I was at an appliance store yesterday and they had a hood mounted 32 inches above the cooktop. I'm tall and that worked for me. I'm headed to the Vent A Hood distributor today. I talked to them on the phone yesterday. I think we can figure out something with the hood. Seems like the only real option. Everyone I talk to who has the downdraft or the pop up thing hates it. Thanks to you all for your thoughts and suggestions. It is very helpful as I work through this issue.
We have a large, fairly active household. By that I mean, two adults, MIL, three kids and usually another kid or two or six hanging out. Doors are always opening and closing.
And, because of our ridiculous downdraft vent, we usally have a kitchen window open when we are cooking. My question is, how far would a window need to be open for adequate make-up air for a given size exhaust fan? If the window is about 6' from the exhaust, why would a motorized intake system be required?
If it matters, I live in NW Washington where it doesn't get too cold.
A nearby window wouldn't have to be open very far to provide makeup air as you suggest.
For many of us in less temperate climates, the energy cost of letting all that cold air in isn't very efficient.
Jeff
The cold air is going to come in somewhere.
You can control where that air comes in with an open window or ductwork.
Or, the cold air can come in everywhere else... around doors, windows, exterior penetrations, attic penetrations, down chimneys/flues....
If that cooktop hood is moving 1200 cfm to the outdoors, you can bet that 1200 cfm of outdoor air is coming in... whether you like it or not :)
Same thing is going to happen around water heaters, furnaces and boilers. The fuel needs air to burn. You can either bring combustion air to the appliance... or use the air you paid to heat and send it up the chimney. That's ok because there is plenty of cold air that will come inside to replace the warm air going up the vent.
Edited 6/19/2009 6:37 am ET by danski0224
The cold air is going to come in somewhere.
Of course - you are correct. But it makes a difference where you bring it in, in other words an open kitchen window is going to cool off the whole kitchen. If you bring in makeup air right next to the cooktop or range (as in our case - I have a register behind a recessed microwave where you can't see it) then the cold air is going to be mostly exhausted directly along with the cooking odors, etc.
Jeff
If you bring in makeup air right next to the cooktop or range (as in our case - I have a register behind a recessed microwave where you can't see it) then the cold air is going to be mostly exhausted directly along with the cooking odors, etc.
That makes a lot of sense. Learned something new today. Thanks!
>let me know and I'll post information on it.<
I'm curious if you don't mind telling.
No problem - I'll take photos this weekend.
Jeff
My HVAC guy uses that damper, along with a small fan to exhaust air from conditioned crawls... it's a goezinta and a goesoutta<G>http://www.tvwsolar.com
Now I wish I could give Brother Bill his great thrill
I would set him in chains at the top of the hill
Then send out for some pillars and Cecil B. DeMille
He could die happily ever after"
If you feel you need a hood, there are ones out there with glass that are minimally obstructive.
There are also downdraft units that pop up when needed and stow when they are not is use.
For noise, get one with a remote fan like a Fantech and it will really cut down on the fan noise. It's hard to eliminate noise completely for a range hood as you don't want a lot of bends in the line, which masks the fan noise.
Check out http://www.kitchensource.com/range-hoods/ for about a bizillion ideas.
--
"Though I don't think" added Deep Thought "that you're going to like it."
Rule #1. The shortest line of pipe.
And #2. The fewest bends.
Anything else and you're paying to attempt to correct the inefficiency. In performance, cleaning, cost and most everything else.
Put it on the outside wall and rethink your layout.
"Put it on the outside wall and rethink your layout."Well, Dhuh, yeah...why didn't I think of that
But this is a case of the "I Want"s
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yeah, but sometimes another knucklehead has to come in and say it out loud.
Jenair is the only downdrafter I am aware of. It is a PITA to install, but so are most unique exhaust installs.
Yes a more powerful fan and larger duct can help, but do you really want the noise of a jet taking off in your kitchen?
Design it so the bottom is just above line of sight and use a remore fan with variable speed control. Then learn to use it. Also you will need to provide makeup air if you have any other combustion sources in the house to avoid CO poisoning.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
the height of the fan unit above the cooktop has more to do with fire code than performance. the exhaust systems job is to remove most of the smoke and moisture, not all. you need to decide what level of efficiency is acceptable
I have an external fan that mounts to the side of the house. the hood itself is a custom design. its still not the quietest option but it pulls enough air so the guys can hang around the kitchen island with a cigar (with minimal complaints)
I have installed several of the pop-up styles. they can be challenging. you will lose almost all of the cabinet space below the cooktop and you need to have clear access below the floor and to the outside for the duct run. and I do know some people who prefer them to upper cabinet models
heres a tip if you go with the pop-up style. mock up the countertop with plywood and screw it to the base cabinet. install the blower and the cook top making all of the connections, then remove both. leave the plywood in place for the countertop fabricator
I have had no luck with downdraft, expensive Jennairs, GE popups-they look good but do not cut it if you are a serious cook. I prefer Ventahood systems and buy the biggest one you can stand.
As others have mentioned, you may wish to reconsider you layout and get the cooking surface on an exterior wall.
Best of luck
Bruce
I have the Jenn-Air range - what's not to love? It works well, but then again, I don't fry much...My stove came with a grill module, if I wanted to use it.
I know almost nothing about cooking.But I had a chef request a Jennair Range in a house built for him. As I recall it was a downdrafter too.My memory ( this was 10-12 years ago) was that this unit had some feature that made for good browning of his pastries in the oven.I didn't know if the negative comments were about the way the jenair works or about the install procedure.I have put in two ranges and two cooktops downdraft Jenairs and I really did come to hate them as an installer.
But like I said, I have no idea how the work - good or bad. When we use one, it is at the owner's request.I have a vague memory that maybe Thermador had a downdrafter once too.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
It would help to know what kind of cooking you do. The larger fan and larger duct will definitely help and noise can be redusced by placing the fan in a remote location. A custom hood manufacturer can work something up for you that will meet your needs but be prepared to pay for it. My experience with the downdrafts has not been positive. the best systems are updraft
"this dog may be old but he ain't cold. And he still knows how to bury a bone."
Lattimore
http://www.rehmodeling.com
Sally,
As a remodeler that also cooks I'll give you my 2 cents. I have a 36" Wolf commercial gas range and a 36" VentaHood Hood. It's mounted 30" off the top of the range. On the hoods highest speed I can fry a steak in a cast iron skillet on high and you can't smell it out of the kitchen, but it is loud. If you want to go any higher in you mount I would increase the size of you hood. For example, if you have a 36" range use a 48" hood.
BTW I've had 2 JennAir down drafts, a range and a cooktop, neither one was worth spit.
You have that just right. A hood that is 30" above the range top is above line of sight for most. And if you want better smoke reduction go with larger dimensions and fresh air source below range top level; not a bigger fan.
You don't have to stay with a "Jenn air" to have a downdraft system. You can have system put in that is independent from the range. There are a number of options available to you. Talk to some well recommended Ventilation contractors in your area.
Taigert
We had the jenn-aire, wife hated it. I wound up putting a vented hood in.
mike