I need some help purchasing a pre-fab fireplace for a house I am about to build. I found a website that sells the kits but I need someone to look at it for me and tell me if this is going to come with everything I need to complete the fireplace and the chimney. I am looking at the following website. Does this kit look like its just the firebox only? If that is the case what else am I going to need? I don’t understand all the options, I know I need a flue and chimney pipe but whats all the rest of that?
Also what is the difference between radiant heat and circulating heat?
Replies
I guess I should also ask, will code allow me to install this myself or will I need to hire someone for this?
Allowed or not, If I were you, I'd farm it out to a reputable installer. You don't seem to really know enough yet about the particulars..no offense. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"I don't think it's funny no more" Nick Lowe.
Typical response. 5 months ago I did not know how to build a house either but my fathers house is nearly complete.Any useful responses out there? I've been reading more and more and now understand that it does only come with the box. A typical fireplace will have a flue, I'd like to know why there are different size flues to choose from. From there I see you typically use 8" pipe up to the roof and then 3 feet above the roof line. Is this all I need? Can anyone tell me if I need anything else on that list? I am not familiar with some of the things such as stabilizers, firestops, terminations, storm collars, etc. Are these truelly optional? Can I just go from the flue straight up with 8" pipe and cap it with some sort of metal roof?Thanks.
I wasn't being "TYPICAL" I was suggesting ( silently) you MAY have warranty issues? YES, you need the installaion KIT for YOUR installation, not a generic option...storm collar? YES, Trmination CAP? YES With a spark arrester, esp. if ya have a wood roof.
Get it all, use what ya need, return or resell the rest..I have no clue what size flue you are thinking of, or if you are going into a masonry flue, exposed insul pipe or what..so how is that for typical? Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"I don't think it's funny no more" Nick Lowe.
I'll start studying that site for ya and be back in a bit.Some options are depending on the situation in which it will be installed though, like is the metal chimney going into a chase or up through the house? How manyu floors above it? Will you need to offset for trusses that cannot be cut? how steep is your roof? where in the roof line will it penetrate, ec.One thing you have wrong so far is height above roof. It needs to be two feet above the ridge or three feet above any point within ten feet horizontally ( or is it the other way around - yes it is Three feet above ridge and two feet above any thing withiong ten feet horizontally)
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Dont buy, DIY. Less time than 5 months fopr this type job.
A competent DIY cannot buy as good a FP as one can build themselves - unless a custom design. Did own FP with waterwalls and circulated the hot water for heat.
PS: Have posted stuff like this before and told was definetely not the normal DIY HO. If you also are not the 'normal HO", go for it. There are many good texts at the library with detail on industrial systems that you can apply to your own situation.
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Edited 11/2/2005 9:25 pm ET by junkhound
OK, Part of your confusion is thatthe site you linked is poorly laid out, IMO.
You will have to click on the product specifications button to see what size flue ( 8" apparantly) is required and maybe see more about installlation. I didn't see it there, but almost any manufactured product today has a pdf file online showing parts and installation details. You may need to google the manufacturer. There is way too much work to be done for me to do it for you.
on some options, I'll go ahead and do you a primer.
You need enough flue to get three feet above the ridge of the roof from the top of the unit. Spec sheet will tell how tall the unit is.
You need firestop spacer every time you transition between floors or at cieling, to control flame spread in case of...
If you have to do offsets to work around trusses, you need to plan whether 15, 22, or 30° pairs will work. That can take experience.
every 90° of elbowing will reduce your draft by 15% so you need to add correspondingly to the height of the stack to compensate.
stabilizers are for when the stack goes more than about four feet above the roof. To penetrate the roof, you need a flashing for the right pitch, a collar, a rain cap with spark arestor. The other terminations they list seem to be different trim pachages for differeent looks. You would need pictures to know what they are. Site seems to not provide this.
Study, study, study, Sphere was not being to abrupt with you in his first post. A dangerous situation will result if you go into this without knowing exactly what you are doing.
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Thanks Dad, I was just being honest and not insulting him. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"I don't think it's funny no more" Nick Lowe.
I am studying. Thats why I posted here. I really hate that "You can't do it" attitude that so many have. This is why I am asking these questions before construction on the house even starts. We are building 3 houses for my family on a large peice of land, the first house is nearly done. We are spending 70k to build a house that will be worth 250k the day we move into it. So I think it pays to try things you've never done before.Anyway, to answer your questions this is a single story house. Fireplace will near middle of house with all 4 fireplace walls on the inside. I figured I would frame around the fireplace and run the metal pipe all the way up into the cieling, then straight up out the roof. Not sure yet if I will need to move around roof trusses but I now understand what the angles are for. Thank you. I'll have 10' walls with a 6/12 roof pitch. So I figure the chimney would have to go approx 15 ft' from the top of the firebox. This is a guess as I don't have plans in front of me.Maybe I am missing something? Isnt the flue the part that opens and closes? The flue should sit right on top of the firebox no?
The damper opens and closes. The flue is in your mind the chimney. A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
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You are referring to a damper. That should be intergal to the box portion of your unit. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"I don't think it's funny no more" Nick Lowe.
--- Maybe I am missing something? Isnt the flue the part that opens and closes? The flue should sit right on top of the firebox no? ---The damper is the part that opens and closes. The flue is what carries exhaust up and away from your living space. Older style, natural draft fireplaces typically have dampers that you close when you're not using the fireplace, so that your warm living space air doesn't go up the flue. As far as I know, direct vent fireplaces (which use outside air piped in for combustion, rather than using conditioned air from the living space) do not have dampers.But I could be wrong.Also, I have not looked at the web site for your paricular fireplace, so I don't know if it's a natural draft fireplace or a direct vent.Rebeccah
The damper opens & closes
The flue is what the smoke goes up, either masonry or metal
Dampers can be right above the firebox, or all the way atop the chimney (often used on masonry chimneys to hold heat in the mass, and/or keep birds/rain out) This type is controlled by a stainless cable.
You can do it.
But we don't know you, and all we have to go on are your words w/o your voice inflection etc, and no history whatsoever. So forgive our caution. Besides its free advice.
I'd bet there is a web site primer on fireplace construction, and your local woodstove shop would be glad to advise.
edit: and a lot of free advice, I might add - 3 replies before I could post!
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Edited 11/2/2005 7:36 pm ET by Brian
ok i get it. wax on wax off! :DSo if I have this right. I buy the firebox on that site. Then I will need to buy enough flue to equal the length I need to get atleast 3' above the roof line. The different sizes depend on the number I need to come up with. aha danel-son! Then as I pass through the ceiling it needs a firestop. Then it goes up through the roof using another firestop? Then I need the 6/12 pitch flashing and then the Terminination.Am I missing anything?What is the storm collar used for and where does it go?Someone mentioned that angles decrease draft. Is this good or bad. Is going straight up ok or do you want an angle somewhere?This unit shows a combustion air chamber. I just run that outside right?Thanks for all your help, this is really making sense now.
Edited 11/2/2005 8:52 pm ET by Johnny1985489
you got questions like an inquisative five yeaar old!This is good. Someday student surpass teacher.I believe that majestic has good instruction and pictures how all this goes together. try googling them up.No firestop spacer at the roof itself. It is to prevent fire spread from one floor to the next or into attic.Storm collar - imagine the old time collars that removed from a shirt. Separate ring type peice just below the head.
OK, now what would a "storm" collar be?
something to keep storms out.The flue pipe goes straight up through the roof flashing. At that point it is touching it but not sealed to it. Rain that hits the flue pipe can run down into the house. so you run a bead of silicone caulk around the pipe, wrap the collar tight just above that bead, and slide it down into it, then run another bead right at the top of that junction. now the collar is a flared piece that sheds rain away from the pipe and flashing.You do not want angles or to reduce draft if you can help it. That can resultin a smoky house. You control the fire with the damper and with doors, if this unit has them. metal prefab fireplaces have the damper built in."This unit shows a combustion air chamber. I just run that outside right?"
I have no idea what you/they mean by that. Have you read their specifications and installation instructions yet?
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I am reading it now. I think I have enough to get me started. Thanks for the help folks!-young grasshoppa
Do you know the rough opening dimensions for this fireplace / chimney setup? I did not see them on the website,maybe I missed them. These dimensions are important for planning your flashing at the top.....After you figure out everything you need for this and add the price up I would at least check to see what the difference was having it installed.May not be worth the headache!
ok dokie. I think I am really getting this now. Tell me if I am making any sense or if I am going to burn my house down? The walls are 10' high to the ceiling. The top of the roofline at its peak will be 7.5' from the ceiling. The roof is 4' from the ceiling at the spot the chimney will be. I need the chimney atleast 2' above the peak of the roof right? The fireplace is 42.5" tall. So I basically need about 191.5" of flue to achieve this. Now since the chimney is not at the peak the chimney itself will be about 5.5' high. Is that ok? Seems really tall to me. Or should I bend the pipe over using angles and have the chimeny come up at the peak of the roof and only stand 2' tall?Also does the flue simply slide though the firestops and flashing or do they connect to it and then connect again on the other side? I need to know if the firestops will add any lenght to the flue. And since I have not seen them yet how to flue peices connect together? And can they be cut?As far as paying someone not to have the headache... I find this stuff fun. I enjoy doing something I've never attempted before. I think most people give up to easy and pay someone. I'd rather burn my house down then give up that easy. :)Edited 11/3/2005 6:04 pm ET by Johnny1985489Edited 11/3/2005 6:10 pm ET by Johnny1985489
Edited 11/3/2005 6:11 pm ET by Johnny1985489
go whole hog, frame up a chimney, side it in whatever-siding, stucco..
run the flue up through it....that way you won't need guy wires to hold that ugly pipe straight on top of your new roof....
Ok thats a good idea. I thought about that but don't see anything in the instructions PDF that I downloaded about doing that. If I frame it up on the roof how much of that pipe needs to stick out of the frame work? And can I use plain old siding or do I need something fireproof?
Thats what I did here. I made a 2'6" X 6' chase, to be sided with stickon rock...I have a copper lid that has the hole for the flue ( I soldered on a collar an inch high) and the storm collar is also copper...the "stack" sticks up about 18" above the lid ( I used all 3' increments of pipe) and a spark cap on that.
You can side with what ever ya want..match the house or use fake rock, fake brick..mine is still in tarpaper..LOL Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"I don't think it's funny no more" Nick Lowe.
Man, this thread gives me the creeps................I can smell the burning flesh already...........
edit: where's brownbagg when you need him?
Birth, school, work, death.....................
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Edited 11/3/2005 7:27 pm ET by seeyou
They were very nice werent they?
reminds me of the one I ran off
I saw your shadow looming back there, you meanie
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can someone tell me the difference between a Round Contemporary Termination and a Round Chase Termination? If I am going to build a chase around the flue would the case termination be what I need?Whats the difference? How they connect?
I said long aohere that you would need to see pictures from the supplier to know that. You are asking in the wrong place to get the right information.Sometimes tjhere is a good reason for shoppong locally instead of webbing it
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That is more properly called a chase.
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You only said that cuz ya saw what i called it...(G) Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"I don't think it's funny no more" Nick Lowe.
naw - I type blind
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I wish I could type at all..wore the paint offa the backspace button in the first month! Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"I don't think it's funny no more" Nick Lowe.
10' floor to cieling
7.5' cieling to ridge
=
17.5'
minus 3.5' fireplace unit
=
14' to ridge
add 3' above ridge
=
17' of flue pipe.Some manufacturers slide pipethrough FS spacer, some stack on it. Odds are yours wil slide through.Pipe is twist lock. Generally a good idea to securewith three SM or Tec screws at each joijnt. No way you want to even think about cutting length.
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Go to the website of a manufacturer like Heatilator or Heat-N-Glo. Follow the links to get to the .pdf downloads of installation instructions for their woodburning zero-clearance fireplaces.
Everything you have been asking about, and more, is answered in those voluminous instructions.
Virtually every manufacturer of zero-clearance fireplaces has the same instructions, and they include all the preplanning steps, chase building, chimney installation, hearth considerations, etc., needed to know.
My thinking is that if the site he is buyuing from cannot provide the info, he should not be buying there.
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Their site does kinda suck, but they are alot cheaper than anywhere else I have found and they have free shipping and no tax. Can't beat that! I think I know what I need to order now...Thanks to everyone who responded!
"Thanks to everyone who responded!"
Your welcome .
Tim
go to http://www.lennoxhearthproducts.com click on fireplaces, click on your model. This lists most of what your looking for. Installation link listed.
Use serch engine Lennox Superior you'll get a ton to review.
I installed a Vermont Castings zero clearance unit by myself and it was not too difficult. You need to carefully plan the installation to get the proper chimney height using the available prefab chimney sections. Your local building inspector would be a good resource to have so that you meet local codes. The Vermont Castings website has a copy of their installation instructions on it that was helpful.
A radiant unit does not have any heat vents or fan. A circulating unit has those items to help produce more heat to the room.