Got an email today that Yes, they would like to use me on their siding project.
I’d met with them last Wed to present the proposal. I use my detailed proposal as the contract for signature, so we sit and walk thru the proposal … then hopefully sign it right there at the table.
This time, they wanted to talk about it. Which is fine by me as long as we’ve both asked and answered each others questions.
While driving home from that meeting I thought about another thread where it was insisted that you must “know your competition” … and actually care what they charge.
I said BS.
I sat at this meeting, we ran thru the proposal … yes, it included the scope of work they intended, also included some stuff they didn’t think about , as for a whole house re siding job I’d not forget about painting windows, garage door, gutetrs and downspouts … as well as new pvc trim to replace existing trim.
They called about hardi siding … and no sense putting up prepainted hardi and not have top of the line trim and casing.
After they read … they both said Sounds Great!
But ….
you’re “much” higher than the other bid.
“substantially higher” …
which … I expect to hear 9 times outta 10. I usually am higher. Not always “substantially” higher … but higher none the less.
So … instead of back tracking or folding at the first sign of resistance …. I realized in the end my price was very fair. I’d even dropped my markup from 20% to 15%, and didn’t add any markup on my painting sub … as he definitely doesn’t need any direction or babysitting.
I also looked at it from 15 different directions, divided labor here and added labor there … and spent a good bit of time mentally working thru the best way to work on that difficult site. In the end … I was able to lower my labor rates to a reasonable level … then … I left it at that.
So I pressed … I am usually lower then a strictly siding company, but I generally provide a nicer end result. Did they say they’d include all the upgrades from typical that I include with a higher end product such as Hardi?
stainless steel fasteners … miratec flat trim … azec or similar pvc profiled trim?
repainting everything that stays so it’s a brand new fresh exterior?
Seems my competition, who I should know … so I cans ell against … and price against …. didn’t include anything aside from installing the siding.
I have no idea if they planned to keep the existing, or upcharge before … or upcharge after … and replace. Also don’t know what they’d replace it with.
All I need to know … is I priced out and presented the complete job.
Having one bit of info about “the competition” would not have made one difference … actually … knowing … and caring about their price … might have caused me to question mine and try to go dangerously lower.
I still say screw the competition … hack or worlds greatest … you can only price and spec the work for yourself. Know your “product” … and you’ll ask enough Q’s and get enough info to give them what they want.
I’d left that meeting with no start check but had a very good feeling about landing the job. I’d hate to think if I panicked and lowered my price to match …. or get close … just to close the deal right there … I’da just signed us into a very hard winter.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Replies
I've got to head out to a meeting in a few minutes.
One of my long time GC customers decided they didn't like my price on a box gutter project. Got some other prices (I typically just get the job) and decided to try someone new who's price was lower.
Well, they've just run them off the job, so now I'm going out to the site to price ripping their mess out and doing the job for what I priced it at originally.
They do this about every 3 years and the result is the same. Can't blame them for trying, I guess.
http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
till the 3 owners split up for good ...
I had a place I did kitchens and baths for .... between the 3 owners I worked for them at least 9 months a year for 4 years straight.
and I was constantly being "replaced" by two of the owners the whole time.
I'd either get called in to fix the problems and get the job done ... always at a higher "start tomorrow and work weekends" rate over the standard rate ... or I'd slowly / quietly bump my rates up after each mini firing.
My best bud was their head lead carp so I knew what was happening in the field before they each did.
the third owner, their main designer just let my buddy price the jobs and pick the subs ... and funny thing ... in the end I was charging a lower hourly on her projects compared to what I was charging the other two. (I always worked set bid / turn key)
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
when you lead the pack, why look back?
also no sense looking back if yer just gonna get trampled.
I'd rather not see it coming.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I hope things work out for you. It sounds like you knew your numbers were fair, both to you and to them, before you went it. That confidence in the proposal is critical as you well know.
In a way, you were attempting to "know the competition" when you asked those questions regarding their methods and scope. Even if you don't know them, you knew the right questions to ask which will expose the differences in value. While it may be important to know the competition, it is far more important to know the client and you develop that knowledge by asking questions.
The questions will be an important tool for those clients to judge value. In the end, the decision is theirs and theirs alone. If they choose to go the budget route, there might not be anything you can do about it if you want to operate profitably. Hopefully, you've left them with the option of scaling back on your scope so you can fit yourself into their budget. Or, maybe there is no way to scale back due to your personal standards which are critical to meet your warranty conditions. In that case you might not be able to service this client but we all know we can't sell them all. That's why it's so important to have more leads than we could possibly service...which isn't an easy thing to do in this economy.
got the signed contract and start check tonight.
and I agree ... better to know your stuff than know your competition.
this one ... re side with hardi panels ... no sense in having a Plan B.
to me Hardi is an all or nothing deal.
all top O the line or go with a nice vinyl to save money.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
In a sense you do know your competition. In a general "they" sense they all:
Drag out the project
Underbid
Come back for extras
are not neccesarily licensed and insured
drive POS trucks
How'd I do? (LOL)
So if you answer these objections you "should" get the job
or at least sell to these as objections
*posting in the JEFF BUCK format*
No ... actually there's some good competition. I can't compete on a standard siding job against a siding contractor. This one had a difficult site so that helped me.
there's good and there's bad ... I'm not the only guy who does nice work.
But I still don't care what the others charge or how they run their jobs.
I can only worry about ... and present ... myself.
and like Blue said before ... they're thousands of them out there.
How ya gonna know about all of them? Even if U wanted to.
maybe I'm just lazy!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa