This may be a really dumb question but can someone explain ladder ratings to me. I understand that a 225 lb rated ladder is rated for a carpenter+tool belt+material load of no more than 225 lbs. What I do not understand is how they come up with the 225. Is the ladder leaned against the wall, as in normal use and loaded until it fails? Is the ladder extended between two points and a weight dropped on the middle from a height of 10 ft until failure occurs? Or is there another method? Any help would be appreciated.
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I'm afraid to ask... but why do you want to know? What is you're planning on doing?
Don't plan to do anything too stupid. It's just that I weigh 210, which says buy a 225 or higher ladder. Just want to make sure I get the right one.
Thanks.
Handy BobTW
don't even consider a ladder rated for only 225#'s
Get yourself an industrial rated ladder--- I think it's rated type I A-------- rated to 300#'s or better.
You want the BEST ladder you can possibly find---a 225# rating isn't remotely suitable.
Hey---but what do I know--- Stephen
Have ladders gotten cheaper built in the last 10 years? I.E. is an older 250# often better than a new 250#. Big Macs - 99 cents
Whew!
I was thinking you were going to copy the siders I saw on a recent job. They extended a 24' extension ladder across their pump jacks, covered it with a couple 2x10's and used it as staging. It actually gave me heartburn.
That memory is still fresh on the brain and with the way you were posing your question, I was thinking maybe you were getting some crazy ideas.
I buy type 1 step ladders because they get trashed fast and are a bit lighter. But I buy 1A extension ladders cuz I hate being on them and the only piece of mind I have while up on one is that I bought the best ladder I could get!
Laffin here
Judging from two posts on two thread Ive read from you ;
You must hate ladders , bein on them that is .
I think its funny cause you walk plates , rafters , and joices. You probably do it like a cat too.
Story ;
Friend of mine who is a framer /builder borrowed my stilts [I know Ive told this ] and he brought them right back. He said he couldnt deal with it . Crazy but true. I can dance on stilts but cant walk rafters. Never could. I walk stairs on stilts and outside painting eaves. You would think I could handle rafters. Nope.
Tim
You nailed me. I can walk down a 5 pitch roof frame before it's sheathed.... but a ladder over 24' ladder is a bad day for me. A few weeks ago I was installing three plastic exhaust vents on my addition from my 32'er in the rain.... misery. It's not a fear of heights at all.... it's just a lousy feeling I get on a ladder.
Another thing I hate about them is the limited amount of working area you can cover for all that work it takes to drag the thing out, stand it up, and climb it. They serve a purpose and sometimes only a ladder will do, but if there's another way you can bet I'm trying it before the ladder.
Get the cheap type 3 ladders.
If you practice enough you can bounce and jiggle them to walk them across the house without ever geting off the top!
the type 1's are way to heavy for this.
Edited 11/29/2005 6:42 pm ET by jayzog
fixed what? The advice is still wrong. Good way to get somebody killed. Thirty years ago, I had a helper who was doing just that. I told him not to and explained why. two miniutes later he was laying on the ground with a broken ankle. Carpenters watching told me he had proceeded to ignore me as soon as I got around the corner...Day wasted at the ERHe had plenty of time to get over his stupidity though before he found another job
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I've bounced a few ladders in my day Jayzog.
blue
The ladder is loaded under its most vulnerable shape (i.e. for an extension ladder, fully extended) then tested under a static vertical load. It must support the rated load multiplied by a specified factor of safety.
OK, now for the $64 question, what is the safety factor?
Thanks
I know of a roofer, if you could call him that, who uses a 225# ladder and regularly climbs it with 300#...the ladder hasn't snapped. He also drinks beer throughout the day while roofing, so take it for what its worth.
A 300lb ladder is much more substantial and of a different design than a 225lb or 250lb rated ladder.
I don't know.
Thanks, all, for the info.
In Collitch we had a rep from a Ladder manufacturer talk to us.
He had a copy of the ladder manufacterers specs book with him.
IT was thick enuf to make a good stepladder!!!
seriously, Ladders are WAY over designed because of stoopid people and stoopid lawyers.
But buy a 300# 0r 350# rated ladder they will hold up better!
Mr. T.
"I YAM WHAT I YAM AND THATS ALL THAT I YAM"
-U.S. Sweet Potato Council
I will take a swing at explaining safety factor....
The safety factor of a product is the ratio of its rated use weight (force) to the actual amount of force that the product fails
for instance, with rescue ropes, you may have a rope that is rated to 2000 lbs and it will fail at 8000 lbs giving you a safety factor of 4
so, with ladders, they all probably fail significantly higher than their rating, but you really dont want to go there because it will be very scary...
Since I am both heavy 225 and terrified of heights, I always go with the industrial ladders, and have a 6ft step and 22 foot extension.... hate going up both of them.
I was a painting and drywall contractor for several years.
Ive got an arsenal of ladders plus I collect them . Yup when ever I see one at giveaway prices I buy it . I bought as many ladders as I could get on my pickup and racks and went back for another load. All those are the orange ones #300s.
I have 2 orange 40 footers and a commercial aluminum 40 footer. The aluminum ladder is like walking up steps.Each step is 3.5 inches wide . Its so solid and so heavy I rarely use it unless Im roofing from it and carrying shingles and I dont anymore so I guess our days together are over.
I have some of the cheapest ladders youve ever seen that Ive picked up here and there. I like a litght weight ladder on top of roofs laying down on the roof. I use them for runway treads up 12/12 pitches and some call them chicken ladders. They also make pretty good roof jacks and are light.
I said all that to say this ; Ive never doubled a cheap ladder let . Ive carried them up roofs and stairs and used them at the top somewhere to make it easy to carry them up. Ive never seen one fail but Ive always got the ladders warning and got off myself.
Tim
Do people, like DW, ask you what do you need another ladder for?
Three forty fouters, that's impressive. How many step and how many extension do you have?
I got to pieces of scaffolding in my collection, does it count?
Do you have any aluminum extension planks, Werner makes some that I might buy to ward off a fit of depression.
Big Macs - 99 cents
I honestly dont have a clue how many Ive got . Ive got a lot of them and it blows people away when they see them. They never get to see them all either cause there in different places. Every hand that does get to see them shakes their head.
But let me explain , hahaha .
I ran painting and drywall crews. I could probably rig four jobs painting with ladders with extras. I started buying them for that reason. I could never stop. I paid for all the big ones new, but I traveled and bought them from a factory. Actually it was the factoires shipment department . They were "scatched" in transit from the factory to the warehouse. I know you are laffin, but they will not sell a ladder like that to a retail store. Rules. They cut factory rejects up so no one walks them ever.
The others were convient at auctions , garage sales , warehouse clear outs , People needing money, etc. I bought a painter out once all one money. Got a trailer and a pickup load. Im also an auctioneer and end up with them that way too. There was a freight sales salvage that was here for a while and I hit them too. Bought a 12 foot 300lb step ladder from them for 50 bucks . I dont remember for sure but thats a 300 to 400 dollar ladder.
Believe it or not Ive bought step ladders because I forgot to load one and Id be 25 miles from the shop. Im carrying a step ladder 4ft bought from walmart thats still got a sticker of 17.88 on it because I wouldnt drive the trip to the shop.
People have given me ladders as gifts because I collect them. I need to quit collecting. I havent been on as much as a 32 footer since before my heart surgery. That was over two years ago.
Yes DW goes crazy when she sees yet another ladder come home . She can spotum quick. We were away from home one time and I picked up a ladder from a Lowes and put in on the lumber cart. She said NO, put it back. I kept walkin. We were at an auction and I set in a ladder at 50.00 and bought it . She was pizzed . So ya , shes a problem.
Tim
Tim, I've got the heavy ladders and I went out and got me a light duty ladder. I like the light duty ladder because it doesn't injure my discs.
blue
Cracked me up.
Tonight I went to my arsenal [read my other silly post ] to decide on a ladder to hang a Christmas wreath on the fireplace for DW thats overdue on the honey list . Its been ordered since after lunch on Thanksgiving . She got a little radical this mornin about it . So I went down to pick one out and the job looked to be a little over an 8 footer. 300 lb step was too heavy to carry up the hill. So was the 16ft extension 300. MMMM
I see this lite weight 14 ft extension[thats why I own it because I had never seen one before] and this baby looks dangerous to put DW on so I get it . Shes gone and I have to do it so I do. What I really enjoyed about the job was carrying it up the hill .
Tim
You come closest to answering the guy's question.Ladder's are rated with a safety factor of three. They are set up on a firm surface at the optimum angle for testing. Thus, a ladder rated for 300# will fail at some load above 900# in those circumstances. But since wee all know that no ladder is ever set up on site at perfect circumstances, you can bet that some will fail at less load than that. Just the spring action of walking up it carelessly can doubnle the actual force applied.Most failures I am aware of happen at the dogs or the feet. Dogs get worn opn extension ladders and should be inspected regualrly. Feet can slip out ( Boy, do I know how!) and every time it is moved there is a new set of odds.Some other probelms come from leaning sideways on unsecured ladders, fractures in the metal or fibregls, worn joints betwen rungs and uprights, and the ever worrisome power lines waiting to be tickled.
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Piffin,I was going to post the same thing, only I recalled the safety factor as 4. 1200 pounds for a type 1A had stuck in my mind. No time now to do the research online.Bill
That was based on memory from a roofing rag I read many years ago, so maybe it is 4X am i'm rememboring 3X plus oneX or something similar
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There are actually four duty ratings for extension ladders -- type III, type II, type I, and Type IA.
The type III's are light and flimsy, but they're ok for changing light bulbs -- I have a 16' and a 20', but I would never use them for any serious work that requires a ladder. But they are easier to move around.
I'm thinking of getting rid of them in favor of a Little Giant, or one of the clones. Safer, and more versatile, but somewhat heavier.
For longer lengths -- e.g. 24', 32', etc. -- I wouldn't think of using anything less than a Type I.
********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I have a real Little Giant, and I've seen the HD made in China clones. Definitely go with the real thing.
-- J.S.
I've wondered about those ladders, do you like yours?The heck, you say?
My son-in-law has one, it's a clever thing but waaay too heavy for me. I get annoyed just trying to move it from one spot to another. But then again, I'm not 30 or 40 any more.
Don't be so quick to judge ALL the clones
The Gorilla brand they sell at HD is a POS, we have one of those and it usually sits. We also have 2 older Little Giant's, they work well no doubt about it, though they are showing their age, I personally have a Werner verison I bought at Cosco, I think it is every bit as good as the Little Giant, though it did not come with the platform, for $100 bucks I think it was well worth purchasing over the true Little Giant.
Curious, what is wrong with the Gorilla's?
I have had a couple real Little Giants for years. When the clones started coming out, I looked at the Gorillas and thought they looked almost like they could come off the same line as the Giants.
Haven't ever used a Gorilla, but, like I say from looking at them they look as if they would be just as good as a Giant.
Thanks for any insight.
The mechanisim's do not move smoothly, are a little harder to operate, and it just seem's like it was made "cheaper"
I'm perfectly happy with my Gorilla, but then again, I've never had any other articulated ladders, so I don't know how it stacks up against Little Giant or Werner's
My local tool suppier sells a version by Werner, and as near as I can tell (without directly comparing the two), it pretty slick, and quite a lot cheaper. I have a mild aversion to buying some "as seen on TV" product -- do you think it is good enough that I need to get over that?Also, the Werner does not have the work platform. Is that as useful as I think it might be?Finally, they have about 3-4 different models (by height and Type). Do you have a recommendation on which is the best all-around version? I'm thinking the Model 22 -- which extends to 19', in the Type I version. Thanks.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Don't forget to make equal comparisons.Little Gaints make 4 kinds of ladders in the Little Gaint "style".AL type 1AL type 1AAL type 1AA (375 lb for the fatties)And Fiberglass type 1A.http://www.littlegiantladder.com/Now I just bougth a Keller 17 ft "little giant". It is made by Werner and I think identical to those sold under the Werner name. It is a 300 lb unit.I was doing some work with a friend that has a LG 22 ft unit, but I don't know which type.Now I like the leg extension "pins" on mine better. They are round pins and seem to drop into the run holes easier thant the flatten pins on the LG. And the hinge releases seemed to work better. But that might be because the age and amount of paint on the LG.But the LG seems lighter. But I was only moving it when it was in the step ladder mode and I was under it lift it up. And allows mostly back and leg muscle. I have never moved my in that postion so I am usually just carrying "under arm" and hold it out in front of me to positon.Looking at the way the LG breaks into 2 section for use with a plank does not appear to be a good as with the Keller and also requires the optional work platform. As far the size it depends on what you want to do, how often, and how much weight do you want to carry around the rest of the time.The LG owners manual gives the range of hegiths for each model.http://65.61.187.163/Operation_Safety_Instructions.pdfWerner also has similar information, but they resent it as WORKING HEIGHTS which includes the extended arm of the user (don't know what height that is).I really like mine. The 90 degree and stair mode are things that you can't do with regular ladders. Also with rungs on both side of a step ladder I have "gone to the top" and stood with one foot on one side and the other on the other side. Very comfortable and stable postion.Also the fair on the bottom of the ladder mades it very stable.
What does the one you have cost? Where do you get it?The heck, you say?
The Keller 17 ft I got an ACE hardware store for $129 Memorial weekend sale. It is normally $149.Last weekend it was $119 for one day special.I don't know if that is all Ace's or just the local chain which is big enough to do their own thing in addition to ACE stuff.
I am close to an Ace, I'll take a look, thanks.The heck, you say?
Costco has the Werner 17 footer for $99.00 everyday. Every bit as good as the LG.
JIm Z
Backpeddling a little here, I would say the Little Giant itself is good enough to get over the "as seen on TV" adversion, it is a well built and sturdy ladder.
I love my Little Giant. It gives me a feeling of confidence while climbing and working on it.
We also bought the Little Jumbo. It's their "kitchen" type unit. It was even better for most of my uses than the Little Giant.
They make a quality product, deliver on-time and stand by the products.
This got me over buying some stuff from an infomercial.
> My local tool suppier sells a version by Werner, and as near as I can tell (without directly comparing the two), it pretty slick, and quite a lot cheaper.
I haven't seen the Werner. I have a 26 ft. LG, and I've used a Gorilla, which is a total POS. Check carefully for the country of origin. On any metal product, avoid anything from China. Their metalurgy QC is NG, parts can fracture suddenly without warning. I've had that happen on an otherwise very nice looking set of clone channel locks, and on brass screws. Don't bet your life on that s--t.
> I have a mild aversion to buying some "as seen on TV" product -- do you think it is good enough that I need to get over that?
Yes, they're very well made. I got mine at the NAB convention. They give you better prices if you buy at a convention, or at least they did in the late 1990's. And they used to be at all kinds of conventions. I have no problem with infomercials, but I'd never buy from a spammer. Hal Wing seems like a good guy, and all this stuff is his design. Apparantly the patents have run out, so there are clones now.
> Also, the Werner does not have the work platform. Is that as useful as I think it might be?
I got two of them. It depends what you're doing, how long you need to be in one place. Just changing a lightbulb, it doesn't matter. But if you're painting a window, it really saves your feet and legs. You can stand there as comfortably as if you were on the ground.
> Finally, they have about 3-4 different models (by height and Type). Do you have a recommendation on which is the best all-around version?
I got the 26, the biggest one. It's heavy, but having 9 ft. ceilings, it's never been too big to use inside. Unfortunately, I also had to get a 32 ft. Louisville to reach the highest point on my house.
First, figure out what is the highest place you need to reach. That'll give you a minimum, going beyond the minimum means you'll have less bounce, but more weight to carry. Then consider the smallest space you need to get the ladder into. If your minimum ladder won't fit there, you need to consider having two.
-- J.S.
You build a good case for the Little Giant ..... so I guess I'll have to get me one.......Not a 26" though; I don't have a specific use, just a utility ladder to have around for job site stuff. The handiest seem to be the 16' and 20' light weight extension ladders, so that's why I thought the the LG 22 would work the best for me. I am interested in keeping the weight to a minimum, and I wonder if you think a Type I would be ok, or should I move up to the heavier model -- Type IA?Thanks again for all your help.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
i think the leg extenders are great., 2 are better than 1.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
There are a few things to consider: How much you weigh, how much weight you need to carry up the ladder with you, how much weight you can carry comfortably, who else might also use it....
The 26 ft. 1A is kinda heavy for me when I'm out of shape, but no problem at all after a week of tearing off a tile roof. If you can find them selling at a convention, you can try lifting them in person. If not, get the weights from their web site, and pile some lumber on a bathroom scale to get a matching load to evaluate.
I second the motion on the leg leveler. I got one, and wish I had two. They're easy to adjust, but not so easy to move from one side to the other. If the slope changes a lot from setup to setup, having two would save a lot of time.
-- J.S.
I weigh about 195, but there's a lot of gray hair, and I'm not as strong as I used to be -- hence the concern about I vs. IA.I just found a local place that sells them, so I will be able to hoist the two and see what I think. I'll get the leg extensions too. Thanks once more for all your help.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Amazon sells that Lil Giant platform. I paid 39$ including shipping. I have a Gorilla and if I keep it waxed at the joints it works pretty good. I also have a Cosco which works better. A buddy bought the Werner version after seeing mine and I used it. It seems to work better than either of the other two. If I were doing it again, I'd go with the Werner. I also bought the standoff from (Lil Giant).
john
I've worked extensively with little giants and a clone from Gorillia Ladder (whoever makes that) for the last 6 years. The little giant is better, but not by much and mostly in the latch mechanism. An occational waxing on the Gorillia latch keeps everything working well. For $99 the small Gorillia ladder is a steal and for $175 the large version is just as good.
The Werner clone doesn't look as good, although it might be. The Costco clone is junk, at least the one I used for a few weeks.
Cheers,
Don
With the LG, you pay a lot for that "as seen on TV" thing. It looks like the comparable Werner models are $100-150 cheaper -- but you don't get that snazzy work platform. I used the Costco last summer, and hated it. But that type of ladder is very handy for what I do, so that's what led me to the LG. Costly, but a proven performer.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
where do you buy Gorilla wax???
Mr. T.
"I YAM WHAT I YAM AND THATS ALL THAT I YAM"
-U.S. Sweet Potato Council
You really find out what the difference is when you extend the ladder all the way out.
If you are never going any higher than the eave of a one story house, almost any extension ladder works, but as soon as you start extending it...
Climbing up a fully extended lighter duty ladder is a lot like climbing a trampoline. I learned this climbing it without tools or material...just my 160 pounds plus clothes.
The 300# ladder fully extended is still solid.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
The 300# ladder fully extended is still solid.
They feel like 300# ladders, too, don't they Rich? <g>
Especially a 32' at the end of the day.The heck, you say?
I dont remember you saying what you are going to do with the ladder in question.
If you are carrying roofing up and other heavy loads then I concur the 300 lb ratings.
If you are painting that changes the whole deal. Why because they are moved all day long . Constantly. The weight differnce between a quality built 250 and a fiberglass 300 is great.
250 lbs under a 225 load passes OSHA and is considered safe.
Professional painters use 250s for the easy thought out reason.
Everyone else uses the 300s for working load.
Tim
Here is my experience with new construction - unpopular as it may be. For longer extension ladders, I rarely see a type 1 or 1a extension ladder on site. Roofers are the exception. Why? Too heavy. For example, I have an aluminum 28' type 1A and it indeed is too heavy for me to handle solo easily. Once when I was moving it, it got away from me and fell on the power wire for a T-pole - while I was still holding on to it!!!.... My life didn't flash before me cause I thought fast and figured I'd already be dead... Real safe - Hu? I rarely use it unless I have a helper which isn't too often... I see more type 2s on site than anything. Type 3s are so flimsy, I wouldn't consider using one.