Hi,
I was wondering what the common nailing pattern is when laminating two 2x8s. I think 2 3″ nails every 8″ oc would be adequate with some construction adhesive in between. What nailing pattern would you use, would you keep the 2 nails in a line or offset them by making the top row start at 8″ and the bottom row start at 4″?
I’d tend to think that the staggered approach would be better.
Thoughts?
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Replies
What's the intended use of the 'laminated beam'.
Sig #2: Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you to their level and beat you with experience.
It will span 4' and hold up a cripple wall which the rafters sit on.
three every sixteen inches
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The engineer spec'd 2 nails every 8" oc. When you generally do this you do 3 every 16" oc?My main question was more do the nails fall in a straight line parallel and perpendicular to the beam or do you purposely offset them to avoid any potential splitting pressure that nails in a straight line on the same grain would induce.Also how close to the edges do you put the nails in to avoid any tendencies for the wood to split.Thank you for the reply.
since this is only 4' long, you don't even have room to start much of a running diagonal pattern with them anyways. Just go with what the engineer stated.About 1-1/2" from edge
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The engineer had previously spec'd this but not for this exact case. I am really just interested in the rules of thumb for this kind of work. So you do typically go with a diagonal pattern in the case where the beam is for a much longer span?I have to do another laminated beam later but this time 3-2x8s and a span of 10' but no real load just a non bearing wall above it. In the case where you have three 2x8s do you glue them all together first and then nail in a single pass or glue 2, nail, glue the third and nail again?Thank you for the advice!
This'll get your goat.
I've been inspected with a keen eye a few times. Usually the inspection was from the same county and the same inspector.
If you didn't nail both sides he would tag it. In the event of three members, nail one to the other and then nail the third to that combo.
His concern? separation and if you think about it-I suppose that it would be possible.
I got in the habit early on of nailing off both sides of a header. With the advent of the nail gun, no big deal. Angle them so you don't tear your clothes of arm up manhandling that mutha.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Thanks.I found the NER-272 spec for nailing. Page 36 addresses the built up beam for the most part. http://www.icc-es.org/reports/pdf_files/NES/Ner272.pdfThe question really requires the shank diameter of the nail to answer properly. I am using a 34 degree clipped head .131 common shank nail.Kind of hard to tell from the diagram and the text exactly how the nails are staggered into the built up beam.Makes sense to nail on each side of a header. In my case the built up beam is running up against the old rim joist - this is an extension - so I nailed the first 2x8 into the rim joist and the 2nd into the first which really only lets me nail into one side of the built up beam. I also belt sanded the touching faces of the built up beam and threw some construction adhesive in between them. Hopefully that makes for a super strong connection. I've read sanding wood before glueing it can increase the glue bond by something crazy like 300%. Now that this built up beam is in place would you have done anything different? Also I was replacing a 2x6 built up beam that was lower than my new beam - I think they were going for that exposed drywall covered beam in the center of the kitchen look - and had barely any stud surface bearing under it so this is way stronger than what was there. When I cut back the studs above it, it was hard to get the cuts perfect enough to fully bear down on the beam so I cut some 2x4 wedges which I put between the studs and the beam ( 2 wedges per stud ). Is this how things are normally done? Looking at the existing framing would lead me to believe framing connections are magical and do not need to touch so I am trying not to infer anything from what is existing.And my final questions to round out my post, when do you use ring shank vs common shank and when framing walls do you go with 3" or 3+1/2" nails?Thanks again!
Glue? Well the jury is still out. I used to think that glue added strength, but in reality it might add bonding of the one member to the other-but if the nails do it, does glue do it stronger? Using PL Premium Urethane glue might just make a strong bond that would require less nailing.............but that's not the way it's usually done. Enough nails, never too many so you brutalize the members, nailed properly is good, glue or not.
Ring shanks. Being a remodeler my main experience is with "why did they use those damn ring shanks. I take apart things in my work. Ring shanks have a place, but it's not in what I there to change. Subfloor would be a good one-till I want to take out a pc. Decking-sure till I need to pull one. Your beam, probably not a worry of separation if you used them.
I'm on a job now that previous folks used them to renail siding and 5/4 ext. trim. They must have been worried someone was going to come along and steal it.
Where they are not necessary, nailing at opposing angles will do much to increase the anti pullout.
Shimming in a connection is not something you try for but in none bearing situations usually not a problem. Shims have their place, a clean connection looks so much better tho.
Framing walls by hand, I use 16's-tho 12's go in a bit easier and split less.
Air nails-I use something more like a 12-----3-1/4'' By the time it's buried it makes full penetration.
I haven't framed houses since the 70's so take the above with a grain of salt. Best of luck on your project.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
you use ring shank vs common shank >>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Ring shank for ply or OSB everything else reg.
framing walls do you go with 3" or 3+1/2" nails?>>>>>>>>>>>.
We use 3" but this depends on your inspector .
Thanks.
"If you didn't nail both sides he would tag it. In the event of three members, nail one to the other and then nail the third to that combo.His concern? separation and if you think about it-I suppose that it would be possible."
I alway do the opposite - nailing so that one ply doesn't have visible nails, and that is the ply I put out if it will be seen. I don't see where the force is, and it would have to be a substantial one, that could separate the plys.
I framed so long ago I'm surprised if I remember half of it.
But, I've followed many framers and don't know if it's time, bad luck or the weather, separated headers drive me crazy hanging doors.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Well then, I typically stagger those nails on a diag pattern. I don't know why or if there is any engineering reasoning to either pattern.
But on beams I have had engineered, such as a 18' long LVL/steel flitch one, the bolt pattern speced was always for them lined up vertical. perhaps simply because it is easier to calculate and inspect that way.
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... in my contractors subjectivity, seeing an engineer spec nails in line makes me think like they think ...... load path. Just a guess. Or maybe it's just easier to draw them that way.I used to over-think stuff like this ... wondering what the other guy does ... now?, in a four foot built up beam/header I'd put 8 - 12 nails in it and move on, forget about it. It will be fine. If there's cause for worry, you need it engineered.Sig #1: If two people are exactly alike, then one of them isn't necessary.
Sig #2: Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you to their level and beat you with experience.
The NER-272 spec for nailing on page 36 shows a built up beam and the way it looks is that they do spec diagonal nailing. They only show a 3 piece built up beam which then shows the nailing on the outside members into the inner member and the patterns are reversed on each side.What about for studs in the case where you are cutting them back to recess a beam, are you always able to get a perfect cut and have full bearing or do you sometimes need to throw in a shim? I find it difficult to get the cut that perfect in some cases and the shim ensures I get the full bearing of the stud on the beam.
I would intentionally cut back larger so I could fit it in easy, and plan on shimming to jack it up snug.
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"The engineer spec'd 2 nails every 8" oc."
Isn't that 3 in 16"?Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
I think that would be 4 in 16" and not 16" oc either.