I am doing some work at a local bagel shop. In the serving area, there is a rack that holds all of the bagel bins. On the back of the rack is a wall covered in dark green laminate (Formica, Wilsonart, etc). The owner of the shop wants to brighten it up by applying white laminate over the dark green.
As I have not had much experience in laminate work I have the following question. Can I apply another layer of white laminate over the existing green? If I rough up the first layer of laminate and apply the proper adhesive, will it provide an adequte bond to hold on the second layer?
As always, responses are greatly apprecaited.
Brian….Bayview Renovations
Replies
I've done that several times without issue but never in a commercial setting as you describe. The ideal plan is to remove the old laminate and replace the substrate and laminate.
If that's not allowed, then score it with the most coarse grit belt sander you can find, clean it with acetone or laminate cleaner and then contact cement the new one on as you plan.
Scoring and cleaning are key when bonding to hard surfaces like laminate and melamine.
I recommend spray contact cement from Formica or Wilsonart. It's much easier than brushing or rolling.
From the Formica
Resurfacing Laminated Assemblies with Formica¯ Brand Products Tech Brief
PREPARATION
Acclimate the new laminate to the same environment as the old top for at least 48 hours.
This will allow the laminate to “move” (expand or contract) before it is bonded.
Acclimation greatly reduces the chances of seam opening or buckling, shrink-back,
and reduces stress on the glue line.
Clean the top with a strong detergent or non-flammable solvent to remove any wax,
grease, and polish deposits. Clean the top thoroughly prior to sanding so that the top is
not contaminated by them during sanding.
Using a belt sander, sand the entire surface to remove the original finish. It is not
necessary to sand off the color or pattern. After sanding, remove sanding dust with a
vacuum and tack cloth.
ADHESIVE AND ASSEMBLY
Coat the sanded surface and the back of the laminate with a uniform coating of contact
adhesive. Allow to dry thoroughly prior to assembling. Note: Assembling wet adhesive
lines will trap solvent and may result in a poor bond. Follow the adhesive manufacturer’s
recommendations. Do not use water-based adhesives.
Index the laminate with the substrate. Make initial contact by smoothing with palms and
apply pressure using a “J” roller or rotary press. Trim as usual with recommended tools.
I hope I'm not hijacking this thread; I suspect the OP may want to know about this too:Why the negative emphasis on water borne glues? I have an 'uncle in law' that is a elevator repair pro and installs laminate every day. He swears by the water based stuff. Anyone have thoughts on this?Thanks,Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
Scott
We were talking about the water borne contact at work yesterday and the consensus among the guys that used it was that they liked it a lot and would continue to use it.
I'm never tried it myself, you know, cant teach an old dog new tricks.
Doug
"Why the negative emphasis on water borne glues? I have an 'uncle in law' that is a elevator repair pro and installs laminate every day. He swears by the water based stuff. Anyone have thoughts on this?"I think it is great. You get more coverage out of a gallon. The only problem I have had is when I couldn't use it on metals at the time.
"Why the negative emphasis on water borne glues?"It says nothing about water borne adhesives. ONLY WHERE IT IS APPLIED OVER ANOTHER LAMINATE..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Hi Bill.>>>It says nothing about water borne adhesives.To quote the OP's message:"Do not use water-based adhesives."Then you pointed out:"ONLY WHERE IT IS APPLIED OVER ANOTHER LAMINATE."Right, hence my question.Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
Go back and look at the message.http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=88826.3"Resurfacing Laminated Assemblies with Formica¯ Brand Products Tech Brief....
Do not use water-based adhesives....."The whole thing is part of the Formica tech brief on layers laminate..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Right, like I say, hence my question. I've got an uncle who resurfaces elevators as a job, and he has switched entirely to water based CC regardless of whether he strips or overlays. I wonder why Formica has an issue with this. Perhaps they're worried about moisture delaminating the kraft paper and plastic. Huh?Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
Brian
I've done that in both residential and comercial settings with satisfactory results.
As others have mentioned, rough up the surface and wipe down with acetone.
Doug
Bayview,
I also have done it without problems
The guidelines posted above make sense and are what I would follow.
Thanks so much for the advice. Greatly appreciated.
Brian....Bayview Renovations
Often the problem in putting new laminate over old is how old the glue is under the old laminate and how long it will continue to stick.
I've done it once as described above and it seemed to work great. I was very happy with it!
But I have no knowledge of long term durability because the house burned within a year or so.
No word if someone was trying to force a short in a breaker. ;)
Rich Beckman
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I used to do commercial & high-end residential millwork. I would never put p-lam over p-lam.
For the amount of time and effort, it's simpler to replace the entire top. Unless it's an island, laminating a top and cleaning up the edges is very difficult because your laminate trimmer bumps into the wall before you finish the cut.
It would probably be cheaper to buy a length post-formed countertop at the Home Depot with iron-on splash kits. That way most of the edge work is already done.
He's not doing a c'top.