I have a few dead bushes – either winter kill or they were compromised because of H2O runoff from my neighbors yard. His yard slopes to mine that is @ 2′ lower. I need to replace those bushes with something that will live. I have SOLID clay soil. Live in Michigan. Back yard is not watered with underground sprinkling system.
What should I plant?
Do I plant in black dirt – gravel at bottom – peat moss – forget the whole thing and go artificial (just kidding)?
Thanks, Mike
Replies
can't help you on species, but real soil bets hard clay for growing just about anything
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Plant a lot of composted manure this year--work it into the soil. Maybe next year the little critters in the soil will have it broken down into something you can work with.
So leave it barren this year until that mix works into the soil?
Another problem is drainage. Since this is low and has hard clay, if you dig a hole and replace soil at the root zone, with good soil, the water will drain into that hole and remain around the roots instead of percolating into the clay. That will drown the roots of the new plant.You might need to dig a trench, lay in a perforated pipe in stone and fabric, then replace the soil with good loam and compost with he new plants.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks - I have a feeling the drainage system is a necessity, however, the 'old' plants lasted for @ 10 years before dying. He never waters his backyard. This water problem would be spring rains only - or snow melt. But to be safe a simple drain would help. I hate clay!Mike
I'm in CA., so double check if these will work in colder climates, but some plants that have a chance in heavy clay soils are:
Hedera (ivy)
Rudbeckia (daisy/coneflower)
Weigela
Salex (willow)
Lysimachia (loosestrife)
Monarda (bergamot)
Digitalis (foxglove- not usu. long lived, also poisonous)
Hemerocallis (day lily)
Anemone
Vibunrnum (check species for cold tolerance)
I'd check with a local nusery (NOT a big box) for the final word tho. There's lot's others, I'm sure.
k
Thank heavens, I saw this thread!
Ok, I need a couple of questions answered:
1 - How much sun does this area get?
2 - Do you have a specific max height/width in mind?
3 - Do you have a specific colour in mind (fall/blooming colour)?
4 - Is this solid clay soil or partially clay?
5 - Do you have a specific "look" in mind (do you want a mix of trees/shrubs/perennials or just replace the shrubs)?
6 - What kind of footage (or acreage) are you trying to cover?
7 - Please post a photo of that spot if you can (keep it smaller, I'm on dialup).
I've got a couple of ideas already but I want to see if my ideas mesh w/yours. And no worries, I'll give you Latin & common names, so you can just hand the sheet of paper to the nursery. A good nursery will know what I'm talking about, unfortunately I've noticed that alot of the plant labels in the big box stores don't even have a genus listed.
Once Mother comes home she will HAVE to choose paint & tiles. The hideous shiny silver wallpaper has been removed!
Thank heavens, you saw this thread!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
From you screen name I could come to the conclusion you are a hortoculturist (sp?)Answers:
1. Winters are not only cold but very overcast - @ 27% available sunlight. Summers are different. @ 87% available daily sunlight. This area is surrounded by large Maple Trees and so it is quite shady.2. The fence the plants would abut is 6' tall. So I have a lot to work with up to and a little in excess of 6'. Width is optional. The entire area in front of the fence is 5' by 37'.3. Colour is optional. The fence is not mine and is boring brown/grey.4. SOLID clay. Like cement when dry and like snot when wet.5. Mix would be nice. It is most of the backyard and is the primary view from the deck area.6. See #2.7. I'll try the photo. Got a digital camera for Christmas. I will do my best to download some specific pics of whole area and the problem spots.Thanks for you interest. I do not have a green thumb. I like to golf. So summers are spent somewhere on the 19th hole. But dead looks a little trashy so I have to do something.Mike
work in compost for nutrition, and peat and sand for drainage. good luck
As others said, universities have extension services, but I believe in Michigan each county has a Cooperative Extension Service that usually sell seedlings at certain times of the year. They should be in the phone book--might be part of the US Dept. of Ag., but I'm not sure. Anyway, they should be able to help you.
Thanks for the info. The first thing you will need to do is work on the soil. Pure clay basically just allows water to runoff or like you've described, muck (no oxygen in between the clay particles, no life). I suspect you don't have worms back there either.Luckily, there is a way to fix this WITHOUT killing your back, which is important for your golf game<G>. If you have access to a chipper/shredder use that on your dead bushes. They are going to feed your soil. I'm going on the assumption that nothing weedlike is currently growing back there, correct? If so, you will put an overlapping layer (overlap the edges about 6 inches or more) of cardboard on the ground. Make sure any plastic tape etc is disposed of properly. All you want is the cardboard (trust me, I've found that cardboard is WAY easier than 12 sheets of newspaper). On top of the cardboard you will layer woodchips, shredded leaves etc. Sand plus clay equals concrete, so you want to avoid that & peat moss, in your area, is unnecessary (you've already got acidic soil) and expensive. Do you compost? You don't need to create a compost pile, you can also compost in situ. Banana peels & coffee grounds are very quick to disintegrate. If your front yard is sunny & you grow grass, take the grass clippings and layer that too. The fresh green clippings have nitrogren, excellent 'fuel' for improving your soil & breaking down dead stuff. That's why compost people suggest layering. One layer of 'live' stuff & then dead stuff, then 'live' again etc. Next those maple leaves (this will be in the fall, ok?), in the fall, instead of putting them out on the curb, shred them (helps them disintegrate quicker) and put the piles on that area in back.The good thing about this way to improve your soil, is that the woodchips keep that area looking clean & manicured while you're getting ready to put in your new plants!So if you do this stuff now, you should have a decent enough start on real soil to start putting in your plants in the fall (keep adding wood chips, compost, shredded leaves etc every year. This is not just a one time deal). Just in time for the sales! I'm sending you an email...hmmm reminds me that I need to send someone a list of perennials too, with a list of shrubs/trees that should work in your area. Common & Latin names are included, as well as a description. I would suggest Clethra, Spicebush, Pagoda Dogwood & maybe Pawpaw for right now. Redbud would be cool too, but you can't add it now, because it HATES wet feet. Wait a couple of years before putting in Redbud. You want to be able to pick up a handful of soil & smell nice black earth. It shouldn't just flow thru your fingers when you squeeze it(sand) & shouldn't permanently hold its shape (clay/porcelain). You may see a layer of 'good stuff' above the cardboard & your old soil below the cardboard. This is normal. What we are trying to do is encourage worms to come in (they like the little corrugation tunnels in the cardboard) and MIX the good stuff into the clay layer. Those little buggers move more soil than I possibly could. Saves my back<G>.So, you will put your bones (trees, shrubs, the heavy stuff not easily moved) first. Then you can add stuff like Jack-in-the-Pulpit, Virginia bluebells, Swamp buttercup, Celadine poppy etc. Unfortunately, because of all the maple trees, your perennial palette is kindof limited to spring ephemerals, well and hosta. Hope this helps you out.Clove currant in full gloriously scented bloom & I do believe we are finally done w/frost/frozen/snow type weather! WooHoo!!
Arggghhh. Almost forgot the most important thing.You want a good 6 inch layer of wood chips over the cardboard in that WHOLE area. Wood chips, not mulch. A truck load from a local arborist should be good. The moving part will be a pain but I usually use 2 wheelbarrows (one person moves it while the other loads, a pitchfork is easier to use than a shovel until you get to the bottom of the pile) and can move a load in a few hours. It's easier if you're just dumping the loads into a clean area & don't have to maneauver around already established trees/shrubs/beds.Good luck. We want before & after photos<G>.Clove currant in full gloriously scented bloom & I do believe we are finally done w/frost/frozen/snow type weather! WooHoo!!
I wish there were no weeds. Lots of them. Not on the grass - that is controlled by chemicals. Should I roundup the weeds or use the Preen stuff or what? Too many large tree roots to till. When you say wood chips I assume that is different than tree bark. Tree bark is the ground cover of choice here in MI.I am still working on pics. Battery to camera- dead. New one tonight but lots of rain. I'll get them soon I hope. I have a teenage son that can help me load them on to this site. Soon I hope.Mike
No need to till. Use the cardboard layer method(I usually open up empty cardboard boxes and lay them flat. Pull off anything plastic first) The cardboard layering will block the sunlight, starving the weeds, then they will decompose & feed your soil.
I suggested wood chips because arborists (and landscaping companies) don't charge alot of money for them here. Usually I can get an 8 yard truck full for gas money (50USD or so) or sometimes even for free. The 'mulch' (red dyed or not) costs a pretty penny & disintegrates ALOT faster. Parts of the country also use salt hay or pine needles/mulch. Whatever you've got that's organic material(we are trying to change the composition of your soil), is heavy enough to hold down that cardboard, & will look 'finished'. If you are near a farm, cow or chicken poop will also work. Fresh chicken poop is heavy on nitrogen, so it needs to be aged in order to NOT burn new plantings. Once your soil has bigger percentage of organic material, it will actually absorb more water which will help out the plants.
Mulch will also protect the plants root system from extremes. I know this is alot of info all at once, so let me know if you need extra explanations. I don't want your head to explode (along w/your back, it's needed for golf<G>). Clove currant in full gloriously scented bloom & I do believe we are finally done w/frost/frozen/snow type weather! WooHoo!!
I'm not the o.p., but I think your ideas are excellent! Especially the raised beds, as they will drain and will be easier to put in and to maintain--especially as the o.p. says there are lots of tree roots and the beds can't be rototilled.
It IS kindof a raised bed idea, isn't it? Didn't seem that way to me until I looked at it from your angle<G>.The nice thing about the cardboard & 6inch woodchip layer idea, is that you arent' smothering any tree roots. Water & air are still getting thru WHILE the chips & cardboard are disintegrating. The 'dirt' is being created slowly enough that the trees won't get killed. There are some trees which are more sensitive to having soil piled around & on their roots than others.Clove currant in full gloriously scented bloom & I do believe we are finally done w/frost/frozen/snow type weather! WooHoo!!
Thread hijack.....
I have an very old apple tree in my yard. Lost a whole lot of it during a surprise early snowstorm 2 years ago, but it's still hanging in there. I have a circle of stones, about 15' in diameter around it, and I try and keep the area around the tree tilled & mulched, to a degree,
but it would take a lot of mulch to keep it weed free (if I thought it had a lot of years left, I might spring for the rubber chip mulch and not have to do it so often).
Can you suggest some kind of ground cover/perennial that would do well in a lot of shade, and not compete with the tree too much?
Thanks in advance.....
Do you want it to look like grass? Is it supposed to look pretty all the time? Do you want blooms?Really cool grasslike plants to try would be Sedges (Carex spp). Unfortunately, you really really have to be an expert to tell the different species apart (it's in the blooms) but sedges differ from grass in that they have edges. If you touch a grass blade, it's flat. Sedges are triangular. I will actually be creating a little sedge circle(a mini sedge meadow) upfront to blend in with the neighbors' lawn-lawn-everywhere. In my case, I will be choosing a shorter sedge that won't need mowing. I also have some sedges in my woodsy backyard that stay green into November. For plants that like shade, most of them tend to be spring ephemerals. They pop up early (before oaks & such get their leaves), bloom set seed & disappear by summer. Virginia bluebells, wild geranium, Celadine poppy, Virginia waterleaf are some possibilities too.Clove currant in full gloriously scented bloom & I do believe we are finally done w/frost/frozen/snow type weather! WooHoo!!
No, don't want it to look like grass. Don't care if it looks pretty all the time, just want something other than weeds every year. Bluebells sounds nice.....Thanks!
Someone suggested loosestrife--in Michigan that is an invasive species, so I would avoid that.
My sister tried peat moss in a wet area with clay and it turned the are into a mucky mess--the moss held the water like a big sponge.
I would think to do it right you'd have to almost make a drywell as someone else suggested with lanscape fabric and gravel and sand at bottom and loam to put the plants in.
In Michigan there are lots of swamps that have cedar growing in them--you could try that and maybe wouldn't have to mess with drainage. I believe many iris also will tolerate being wet. I suppose you could plant whtever will grow in or around a pond (artificial or otherwise)--cattails, willow and stuff like that.
Contact your local university's extension service; they'll be able to give you specialized advice on soil ammendments, plants species, etc. Save you a lot of trial and error plus dollars wasted.
Consider a rain garden, which is an area intended to collect and absorb surface water, reduce the effects of stormwater run-off and be decorative. Here's a link to a some info for southeastern Michigan http://www.crwc.org/programs/education/stormwatertips/stormwateredpdfs/raingardensfortherouge.pdf
You'd need to do some soil improvement if you have solid clay, but it might be less of a task than installing drain pipe. As someone else suggested, your extension service should be able to help.
Have you talked to your county extension agent, or a master gardner?
Good advice for free, you already paid the taxes for.
This link is for the whole state, but there should be link, or other contact information for your county agent.
http://www.msue.msu.edu/portal/
Also, Taunton's Fine Gardening website has a forum similar to Breaktime, and Knots, you could try posting there.
Edited 4/29/2008 9:56 pm ET by Jigs-n-fixtures
Have you tried the Fine Gardening "Over the Fence" forum?
Build yourself some raised beds. Outta material that compliments your house. Landscape blocks are nice. And float with the ground moving from the seasons. Design the shape of the beds to work with the flow of your yard and house.
Inside the raised bed, use decent dirt, amend heavily. Provide some form of drip irrigation.
Then use flowering bushes. Roses where the sun is best. Hardy azaleas in other spots. Coordinate their colors to enhance your home.
May sound weird, but the DW's response to when I first started bringing cut roses into the house made it worth it.
Raised beds. 18" oughta do it.
Two old tires stacked on top of each other is a good way to recycle.
und76xx
You do know how to link to the fine gardening site don't you? They are far better that a bunch of carpenters at being specific about corrections with regard to landscape..
Just in case, run your courser up to the word Tauton at the top left of the header, that will list Fine Gardening Click on that, you're there..
Edited 5/2/2008 9:35 am ET by frenchy