I’m try’n to lay this out… and try’n to get 18 covered spaces in no more than 165ft… which gives me 9 ft per car… it will be pull through… so you pull in the front and out the back… 20ft wide… ( i can give or take a few feet here if needed)… metal with metal roof with a flat 3-4ft tall mansard (sp) on the front of old tin to give the look from the steet of an old pole barn/horse barn storage shed… roof to slope to the rear… with a gutter… I’d like to keep the rear (lower side to about 8ft clearance)
I believe it would work better to have tha parking slots angled… whick means i have to set my posts on an angle and the main beams which set on these posts that hold the purlins on an angle … the perlins will run with the building…. I’m pretty sure i can span 27ft with 8″ 16ga CEE purlins 5ft oc … I’m think’n 1/12 pitch for the metal panel roof will be more than enough… I have 5″sq 3/8″ wall tube for the posts… and several choices for the main beam that sits on the posts… I’m think’n welded flanges to the main beams to keep the purlins level with the top vs run’n the purlins on top of the beams (would be alot easier on top but that raises the roof 8″) or lowers the main beams 8″….
the angled slots and posts have me scratch’n my head… what angle? is it worht the trouble? i know it’d be a ton easier to pull in and out of… i only have 17ft coming out of the covered parking (edge of roof to a 12ft tall concrete wall ) with the cover being 20ft wide… how far can i bring the posts in… 3ft? front & back i don’t want the post where your door will open… but bringing them in makes it easier to pull in & out without “contact”
I can use all the help & thoughts i can get on this…
not alot of codes apply because since it will bolt to the slab they consider it “a portable carport cover” I’ll get an engineer to look at it and stamp it… just as cheap insurance… the only question i have on that side is the 8″ purlins span’n the 27ft… i see them span’n 25 all the time… but if you consider a 4ft bolted splice piece if i run em on top of th beams… pretty sure i’ll be ok…
oh yeah… plan’n on a 5-5.5 ” concrete slab for this…
thanks in advance
P
Replies
Architectural Graphic Standards has a pretty good section on parking and minimums and angled parking
check it out at the reference section of your library..
i think it would be worth your while
165 ' for 16 cars would give you 10'.... who's going to park these cars ....the public ?
i was try'n to get away with 9ft per car... it's assigned parking for my loft project... so same person will be parking in each spot each time... they might even be deeded by themself so that those wishing to can "sell" their space... or they could buy a unit without a parking space... which is pretty common here... 5k to 15k per covered spot are common... might just be a "dealing point" at sales time but... something to think about...
I've had my tape measure out... and 9ft is that that uncommon center to center of painted lines...
3 spots to a "bay" would mean posts would be next to the outside spots... while the center spots would be between two cars...
thanks.... for the info.. I'll try to google it
P
The crucial element is the approach. If you've got someone with a full-bed Crew Cab making a tight 90º turn into the space, it ain't gonna happen. But she can pull past and back in, if she's good with her mirrors.Sounds like with your pull-through situation, you'll have fewer dings than most back-outs cause. If angling the spaces makes for a straighter shot, go for it. But does that mean that your structure will be trapezoidal instead of rectangular? If your structure is rectangular, you'll lose a space to the two triangular wasted areas, one at each end.9' should be fine, especially if you use a bit more paint: mark out each space at 7', move over 2', and make another line. Crosshatch the 2' no-man's land with yellow paint, and everyone will act like a better neighbor.AitchKay
I was going to stamp the concrete in the "no mans zone" my stamps are 18" wide...
I was going to make it rectangular... I even thought about encloseing those corners(just a thought) or making them "motorcycle or bike" parking... i did figure I'd lose one spot... because of the angle... sorta... it would have been hard to get into the far end spot anyway.... ... and as i understand it... i don't have to have as wide of a drive leading up to the spaces if they are angeled and pass through...
the angle was kinda a question... but i guess you answered it... 9ft to zero in 20ft... that seems as if it'd be pretty to pull through...
many thanks
P
Here is one page from AGS. Let me know if you need something else.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
flipped image parking layoutView Image
That's no good. I knew he wanted the spaces angled a certain way, so I took pains to copy the page just right. Now the cars will be facing the wrong way on the property."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
No problem. He can stand on his head. I'll hold his ankles for him.AitchKay
Eddie
Sorry but I don't see the problem he can print 2 copies that way he can read it right side up and the other copy twist it upside down and the parking layout will be correct that way he wont have to stand on his head or having to keep turning it. I also wanted it for myself & thought I'd share it.
Zeeya
View Image
Edited 3/3/2009 5:52 pm ET by ZEEYA
I suppose that the total length of the parking area is 165 ft. What is the width? How are you entering and leaving the parking area? Off a public street or what. You will need some turning space at each end depending on the situation.
90 deg. parking is the most efficient. The recommended drive width for 90 deg. parking is 24 ft. Therefore 18 ft. parking space + 24 ft. drive for a total width of 42 ft.
In 165 ft. you can get: 90 deg. parking =18 spaces, 60 deg. parking =15 spaces, 45 deg. parking = 12 spaces and 30 deg. parking = 9 spaces.
This is the best I can do with what I know. Hope this helps.
thanks...
most angled parking it seems assumes you will be pulling in and backing out... i have 18ft from the rear gutter to a 12ft tall concrete wall... so pulling out forward you will pull out onto a oneway 18ft wide drive...... on the approach side I wanted to keep it close to 20ft (measured off the front of the building) I could go wider but in doing so i thought it might promote people parking on it which would then restrict access to the covered parking...
this parking is at the rear of the lot next to my loft project... i have 5 buildable lots to the front ( street side) that is for the future.... it's all gated access controlled... I wanted the drive that serves as access to the covered parking (turning right) to also serve as access to the rear of the buildable lots (turn left) if theses future homes had a rear garage or individual covered parking or just a pad...
access is a gated private drive ... from which you can enter then turn left which will take you down in front of the covered parking... or you can enter pass the north end of the covered parking and turn left and pass by the rear of the covered parking and after passing behind the loft building... then turn left and pass the south side of the building and out the exit gate... there is a court yard on the southside where several non covered parking spots will be as well as the rear entrance to the building and the handicap space...
hope that paints a better picture...
thank you for you help....
p
Yes, that helps. And your right, I did think that you were talking about standard arrangement where you drive in and then back out.
Also true, I may not know exactly what you are envisioning or trying to accomplish. If you don't mind my asking, have you or have you had anyone put this on paper. Sometimes, what I envision in my head doesn't work or is not the best solution when I see it put down on paper.
Just from an economical standpoint. What you are proposing will have in effect two driveways totaling (20'+18') 38 ft. For head in parking (90 deg.) you will need only a 24 ft. driveway. That is over 2300 s.f. of addition paving. Also, if as I understand it, you will use the 20 ft. drive as access to future garages. I hate to keep repeating, but 24 ft. is the minimum norm for head in parking and I assume your garages will not be on an angle. Also, the owner will always have to park in their garages. No leaving their cars out in front. Would need a minimum additional 18 ft. for that.
You didn't mention it, but did you notice on my previous post, the inefficiency of angle parking. It will fool you. You can have a narrower drive, but each parking space takes more sq. ft. A lot of space is wasted in the angles.
Ponytl, I didn't mean to get so heavy, but I have laid-out many parking lots in my day and you are asking for trouble from now on if you don't get it right from the start. There are minimum standards that have stood the test of time. Check them out.
believe me i read and reread your posts... and like you put everything on paper... i draw... alot...
the rear drive has to be paved anyway (the exit drive off the back of the covered parking) i can't build on that area anyway... but that has to be paved....
the 24ft norm for head in parking as i understand it... assumes people will be backing out into that 24ft... which as i understand requires more space than pulling in fr whatever reason.... the future garages will not start at the pavement but would have a 18-20ft parking pad before the garage door...
i have looked on line and i can see what you are say'n about wasted space with the angles... the larger the angle the more waste...
I'm try'n in my minds eye to make it easy for those using the covered parking... thinking that pulling in and out without backing up... no 2 way traffic ect...
the covered parking building is pretty much limited to 20ft x 162-165ft i don't see how i can get more than 18 or less than 17 cars in it no matter what i do...
the far south end of the structure abutts a fence... so if i didn't angle the spaces that space would be very hard to enter or exit... at an angle i see no problems...
thanks for your continued help on this...
P
"not alot of codes apply because since it will bolt to the slab they consider it "a portable carport cover" "
Does your municipality not have bylaws dictating the size and layout, including aisles, of parking for buildings? Every building permit I've pulled, even now that I live out here in the sticks, has had a lot to say about the dimensions and location of the stalls.
My only other observation is that every parking structure I've worked on has had the posts beaten to death within a couple of months regardless of where they were. The last four space carport I built I put a sign on the front posts "Please don't hit these yet" until I would get the rear wall finished to stabilize the structure.
Edited 3/3/2009 7:53 pm ET by fingersandtoes
I'm in an urban (downtown area) all i have to have is access to parking... it could be a pay parking lot 2 blocks over... I happen to have the lot to the north of me where i will have on site gated parking... nothing required that it be covered...
the posts are a huge concern... thats one reason for moving them in 4ft front & rear... if they were as far outborad as i could get them (20ft) i think they'd be likely to be hit... thought about sonotube concrete the first 2ft off the slab... but that would protrude more into the space.... i could core drill just in front of each post and put a steel ballard in front of each...
i hope through good "design" i can make entry & exit easy... so maybe with a pull through situation they won't get hit as much?
people looking behind them backing up and hitting the post with a front fender... seems more common than hitting it pulling in... either way i think my front posts are the ones more likely to be hit? do i bulk them up?
thanks
P
Do what the gas stations do: PVC-wrapped sacrificial posts a few feet from the pumps (in your case, a few feet away from the structural posts). Those round-topped sleeves just drop over to make them smoother and brighter.Now that I think about it, I seem to remember a buddy of mine might sell them online...But at gas stations, they're concrete-filled steel inside. Could you install some kind of cheap, breakaway nerf-post, that would be easier on cars?AitchKay
Ponytl
Give them the address so that they can look at the google map and then they can go to satellite to see the building.
It sure has changed since that picture was taken but will make it alot easier to picture.
ANDYSZ2
WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
man i've never even looked
thanks for the idea :)
the lofts are 497 n. front st memphis tn 38105 the lot is 501 n front
Here's a link to a Google Map.Is this your loft?View Image
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
that is it... that has to be over a year old... but thats it :) the parking is to the rear of the lot to the left if you are face'n the building
p
I'd take a measuring tape and a camera to a restaurant or bank or stripmall that already has what you want. That wheel has already been invented someplace.
funny i measure parking spots... people kinda look... but maybe they think I'm with a pave'n crew or something....
i wish i could find a "pull through" parking situation... there are angled head to head spaces which are alot like what i picture...
thanks
P
ponytl. I don't know if will help, but it can't hurt. If you like, I would be glad to send you a copy of a booklet entitled "Driveways and Parking" that my city uses. It has a lot of good info. Various layouts along with formula for calculating number of parking spaces one can get in any given space. Just send me your mailing address. Oops
Ponytl why don't you set up a bunch of pylons(columns) and 2x4's(lanes) and experiment.
ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
We have a winner, just use some paint for lanes would work also!!
We also need some more recent pictures of his work,pontl where are you!
Edited 3/5/2009 9:21 pm ET by frammer52
hell i was hope'n ron would make it by on his trip ... then i could put iton him for pics... but he happened through memphis on the ONE day we had snow in 4 years...
I'm so close to be'n finished it's start'n to amaze me... in most downstair units i'm down to countertops... sinks & faucets... and towel /toilet paper holders...
upstairs... i have the wood loft floors finished... and the steel rails done in 6 units... and 75% built for the other 4... I'll finish most of that before the weekend is done...
then 10 sets of treads & risers... countertops and sinks faucets ect...
now my big big deal is getting the outside... parking ... access control... landscape ... patios... ect...
P:) i'm close... ready to hit the boom'n hot RE market... :)
Now if you don't put up picts how are you going to sell them?<G>
Maybe He's just going to hold on to them 'cause he may need them some day?
;)Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
well... i found a parking lot that has 9ft spaces and they are angled head to head (so like one long space)...
i tried to eye the angle ....
I need to get started on the pad... which won't change no matter how i set up the posts or the spaces....
thanks
P
When you pour the pad can you set some steel channels in the concrete to bolt your posts to make it easier to call it portable?
Would also make your post locations adjustable.
ANDYSZ2
WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
Edited 3/5/2009 10:19 pm by ANDYSZ2
Dude --
Good job putting it out there, gathering info, and problem-solving.
Now, what it boils down to is that you obviously have no problem. You hope to alot 9' spaces to everyone, and you've found out that 9' would be adequate even for a classic, 90º, grocery-store style lot.
But you are going over and above, providing for drive-through access, and planning to delineate a 2'-wide no-man zone, which almost always eliminates encroachment problems.
You've got it nailed, now build it and collect some rent!
End of discussion, in my book!
AitchKay
the angle is the thing i'm working on now... if i went from 9ft to zero in 20ft... i'd end up with only about 8ft 4" worth of parking space out of 9 running ft of carport..... if i go to 4.5ft to zero in 20 i think i have about 8ft 9+ inches... per 9 ..... i think my numbers are close....
I've been in my yard pick'n out steel for the main frames & mansard most of what i have is alot bigger/stronger/thicker than what i need... but.... but i only have to fabricate 7 of the main frames that will support the purlins& roof... the pitch is not critical so long as it's consistant... so i'm kinda think'n 16-18" fall in 20ft? with a metal roof the water sheds pretty quick... snow load is not a real issue here but the purlins will be 8" placed 5ft oc
DFOS design fabricate on site ...
p:)
A local grocery store generated all kinds of, "How could they allow it!!", letters to the editor when they got away with 8'-6" spaces (standard layout -- lanes with perp. parking off both sides).My F-150 is just over 8'w. mirror-to-mirror, and even though I'm really good at backing the truck in, it's gotten beat up there by others, and there's always arguments about, "I can't get into my car! Move over!"So be careful how close you cheat it!Good luck!AitchKay
i really am not out to push the limits... i have enough spaces for my units... gain'n or lose'n one space is not a deal breaker... I just want to make it where it's HARD for them to hit the poles :) and i want to make it look like it's been there...
thanks for all your help...
P
Gotcha. And sorry it took me so long to get to that last post -- I'd been reading all of the grumping in the local newspaper, so I told myself, "Next time I get over to that side of town, I'm whippin' out my tape for PT."So today I finally got over there, and found out that it was 8'-6" per space. PITA! I did a good job of nailing my space -- back wheels dead center -- but when I got out, I saw that one of my mirrors was hovering over the painted line, while the other had about 6" to the line.And sure enough, while I was squeezing out of my truck, the lady in the compact in the next space (who had parked WAY off-center) walked up and complained to me. Sheesh!Take care, dude.AitchKay
Here's an idea,
Carhops optional.
View Image
you know... i really wanted to do a center single post... I know i have the steel that would support it... I know it's done all the time.... i know it frees up a ton of room...
and I know i'd HAVE to have it engineered.... which is fine....
it just doesn't LOOK natural... i thought with maybe closed in end walls... it might look ok
BUT that would be my first choice... then you build it... and it makes no difference how you mark out the spots... the spacing is the same
P
Victoria airport recently expanded their parking lots and added a covered walkway supported by single concrete posts. They are surprisingly small, but I would imagine the footing is substantial. It looks very good - not at all un-natural.
Rather than closing in the end walls, when I design carports for more than 4 cars I try to eliminate the end posts and cantilever the last spaces on each end. It makes it seem less heavy.
thanks.. i guess i'll give my engineer dude a call monday.... he's real good about... when i ask what i need to hold something up... his first question is "whatdahave?"
he knows me :)
thanks i believe i really do want the single center post... if i can make it happen....
i watched them build something like that... they placed the slab... and left 30" square areas blocked out... they came back dug holes and set the posts there... after the slab...
p
I tried to find pictures of the airport walkway but had no luck. It really is an elegent solution.
Good luck. The whole project looks very interesting.
In your first post you said that they would be considered portable if bolted down.
This is why I suggested anchoring a large H beam in the slab so that you can bolt your posts to it and it can be adjustable.
ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST