It seems with the price of lasers coming down, the tool designers/marketers are trying to hang them on everything.
The dumbest example I’ve seen so far is a laser drill press. As far as I know (maybe I have been using them wrong for all these years) the pointy end of the drill bit tends to cut right where it enters your work.
Same goes for chop saws. Am I missing something here? I had one of those early PC chop saws with a laser and couldn’t figure out where it was supposed to save me work. I mean, like the DP, it pretty much cuts right where the blade comes into contact with the wood.
Do any of you find the lasers to be of benefit hung on to a tool? What is the dumbest application for a laser have you run into? What is the best?
Just curious.
T.
Replies
i agree, but i'm a sucker for them none the less. I have a Ridget 12" SCMS, the laser is a joke for a $500 saw. I don't use it. I also just bought a Husky 7" wet tile saw this week, and it has a laser. Funny thing is, the laser unit is pretty impressive, with fine adjustments to tweak its alignment. still, i don't use it.
My 5 way plumb/level/90 degree laser crapped out the other day and I sure miss it.
That said, I love my little laser penlight/level. I set it up and use it to shim out walls and align all sorts of things without hassling with a string.
That said, it's like anything else. If it's not a quality unit, it's actually a detriment. Accuracy on these things is all over the place, and the early lasers I saw on SCMSs a few years ago actually had geometric error built in!
I LOVE them when they work, but, you have to use your head.
Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
Dumbest application I've seen so far is the no name mitre saw that has a perfectly aligned laser.... down the centreline of the blade. 'Bout as useful as a one-legged man in an arse kicking contest.
call me old fashion
aside from all the tool add on's ...
I hate the "first down" line and that annoying line that follows the puck!
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
i found out from a guy who works as an engineer for fox. those line's you see on the football games run around 12,000 dollars a game. between the man power/software and whatever the he77 else..... thought that was pretty pricey..." Feed the good wolf....."
money well wasted!
I used to be able to floow the puck just fine and call out the yards to go before tha announcers could ... and usually correct them!
now ... too many damn lines in the way ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Jeff, how can you hate the first down line?!!! That's been one of th greatest television inovations since the instant replay!
I love the first down line. I also love the line of scrimmage line. I also love the "gotta get the ball to here to kick a field goal line".
The puck lines were okay. I never know where the puck is once they shoot it, so the line at least gave me a clue as to where it was headed. I used to like the change of colors too.
As you can tell, I'm no purist.
blue
What about ESPN and FOX digital strike Zone? See FOX's DSZ during the World Series.
I haven't seen a baseball game on TV in years ... and years ... and years.
Not much about baseball ever grabbed my attention.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
TD,
How about a laser-guided hammer and cat's paw? Never miss the nail again. Just think of the savings in black fingernails alone.
Bill
How abought a post hole digger with a laser?
Soon they'll put lasers on cordless drivers and drywall trowels.
I've had my doubts about lasers on tools for awhile. Kept quiet about it...not wanting to sound like an old curmudgeon ;)
OTOH, a quality laser, for layout work, would be real nice.
costofwar.com/
I was pretty skeptical about the usefulness of a laser on a miter saw until I got one. It doesn't make me more accurate, in fact, it makes it easier to be less accurate. But, it does save time.
Used to be, when I wanted a really accurate cut, I would lower the blade and align it with my mark before cutting. Sometimes, I would even turn the blade a little so I could line up an offset tooth with my mark.
Now, (after learning how to read the laser) I just start it up, jiggle my work piece to the laser line and go in for the kill.
It got me thinking about a circular saw with a laser. Maybe it would let me get my face further away from the flying debris. Anyone use one of these?
-Don
I've been told I could use one on my 'jimmy-jank' as so to hit the actual toilet.:-)If it were easy....a caveman could do it.
I'm waiting until they develop the saw that cuts with the laser instead of the steel blade! Guess there'd be two lasers; one to guide the cut and the other to make the cut.
i just bought the dw716 because i needed a saw that would cut 5 1/4 base upright (got tired of turning the c10fs on its side for coping and having to fiddle around with cutting large crown on the flat) and big crown. i got sucked into the laser because it was only $30 more. i still ended up using my old method of eyeballing the blade to the mark thru the guard, and the laser is only accurate on one side of the blade or the other. i guess it's good as a reference point, but i can't envision myself using it as the only point of reference for a cut.
also, the dw716 is a nice saw, but the 12" blade is giving me more tearout and less glassy cuts than my 10" did. both freud 80 tooth blades, but significantly more wobble on the 12".
> Guess there'd be two lasers; one to guide the cut and the other to make the cut.
True, the cutting would probably done by an infrared laser, which is outside the visible range. You'd need a visible guide laser to know where the beam is.
-- J.S.
Yeah, a visible beam to see where I'm cutting would be helpful! Or, "Is the laser on or not?..."Oh, sorry..." Sort of like alcohol fuel used in race cars burning and no one could see it.
I don't have a laser on the chop saw, I just check it with the blade. I do find that the more I use it, the less I have to reposition. The first day I had it, I was jiggling back and forth all the time. By about the third day, 9 times out of 10, I'd check with the blade and not have to adjust.
-- J.S.
Most excelent question you posted! Thank you.
Pro's who shop at my tool store do not want the laser, only the wanna-be homeowners.
Well, that settles it then: I am NOT an old curmudgeon.
And a young woman says so. ;)
Thanks darcy.costofwar.com/
Thanks for calling me young!But the Pro's that shop my store don't want all those gadgets. They want a tool that will perform well on the jobsite.darcy(geez...I'm probably gonna get in trouble for promoting my company again...)(Already got one note from Taunton)
Yeah, that's a clear Strike 2 there.
Thanks for taking the Yellow Card for me darcy. ;)costofwar.com/
I said a bad word the other day.Guess they missed it...shhh...<g>
Why would they flag you when Dino has posted hundreds of times with no apparent problems.
I posted a link to my company's website because another poster requested it.
A little off topic, but it appears to be fair game in this thread... I have one of those RoboToolz Robo Lasers. $250 yellow rotary laser with the remote control. Had it for probably 5 years. I'd estimate that I've used it maybe a hundred times so it is used, but not heavily. Understanding that it has a pendulum in it, I've always been pretty careful with it. Anyway, I wonder if it needs to be calibrated? How can I check it if I don't have a transit or similar tool to check it against? Thoughts?
Edit: I meant this Q to go out to "All"
Edited 10/23/2005 10:30 am ET by Matt
Matt,You could check your Robo Laser against a water level, if you have access to one. Or if you have access to a wide, calm pond, set the device to shoot its beam close to the surface, and check with a tape measure at two or more places widely separated. In other words, measure up from the calm surface of the water to your red line being cast by the level.Bill
Good idea!
Matt,There should be something in the instruction manual about calibrating it, although some recommend having an authorized service center calibrate it for you.Maybe check out the website?
I wouldn't try calibrating it myself. I would like to know if it is still accurate. I think I have a plan in place now.
There's an easy way to check any laser. Next time you're in a 30' or 40' space, set the laser at one end and shoot a mark to the opposite wall. Go down to that mark, line up the laser with it and shoot back to your original mark. If it doesn't hit the original mark, it's out. Remember too that if you do this and the difference between the original and the shot back is " X " then you're only out by "1/2 X" in 40'.
Hope this helps...Buic
Edited 10/27/2005 5:22 pm ET by BUIC
OK - I think I got it but let me make sure...
>> set the laser at one end and shoot a mark to the opposite wall <<and the near wall. Mark both walls. Take the laser down near the mark on the opposite wall >>, line up the laser with it and shoot back to your original mark. If it doesn't hit the original mark, it's out. <<
Sorry - ya gotta splain these things to me...
Matt, you left out the bit about how gravity deflects a lightbeam.
I think the adjustment factor is L/360. ;)http://www.costofwar.com/
Matt - you got it right. Don't forget to half the difference between the two when you shoot back to the original. If they're a 1/4" apart you're out an 1/8" in 40'. Depends on how precise you need it to be for the work at hand...Buic
That's so simple I feel stupid I didn't figure it out myself... Thanks a lot!
The accuracy I have seen most often is plus or minus 1/4" per 100' But keep in mind that the over all accuracy is 1/2".
The best accuracy I have seen so far is 1/8" per 1000'Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
Wasnt a critisism, just an observation. Feel free as far as I am concerned.
Nah, I don't want to get in trouble again...I'd have to share a cell with rez. <g>I'll email it to anyone who asks though.
Still begs the Q why is Dino aloud to promote his product and nobody else. Not picking on Dino, I am glad he has been able to. He has given people a lot of good info and a great product. But still...
Well, I got a polite note from an editor.I do think they said something to Dino too. It's mostly other posters supplying links to his website now.Hey, I could put a link in my profile if I can figure out how to do it.
Still begs the Q why is Dino aloud to promote his product and nobody else. Not picking on Dino, I am glad he has been able to. He has given people a lot of good info and a great product. But still...
I know why. Is more than just another great product and more info. Because Dino is the American Dream and Spirit.
And thanks to this great Forum, we saved many trade schools for closing their doors to... our future.
This is heavy...but so what? The last week made me even more...YCF Dino.
After been hit by a Hummer type of SUV with 75 miles ...and loosing my brother Nickolas the same day from cancer. (construction worker-insulation work) told by the trauma center doctor that my brain is bleeding and nothing they can do about it...walking out 1/2 naked to go for a second opinion to another hospital....waiting for the..you will die soon answer, right next to a guy who just lost few fingers on a tablesaw accident and 5 doctors trying to save whatever they can...
...Don't feel sorry for me Argentina. My brother left in peace and brain wasn't bleeding. (Doctors/crooks/insurance) ....
But the poor guy next to me... if he only knew about the Dead wood Concept and the poor kids that they lose the woodworking classes because they don't know about "Dino the tool pimp"...
But still.. Let me guess here. What tools do you own.???/
(.... this is ... funny)
I think I may go back to poetry.
Reinvent Peace.
YCF Dino
Hey dino,Will you ever make wormdrive compatible units? There's a hecka lota building going on out here...t'would be "smart" to do so!...(...and probably E-Z for you. <g>)If you can, my company would probably be very interested, since they have want no relationship with Festool yet.I will help if I can.darcy
P.S. I have some cute pictures of you from Riverfest. Want a copy?
darcy, I don't know if it is such a good idea to make the EZguide worm-drive compatible.
EZguide is touted as a lightweight unit... Lightweight is not manly enough for you strong West coast types. ;)http://www.costofwar.com/
Yep.No doubt in my mind that most of these big-shouldered California boys would probably laugh at it.But I still thik dino could sell a few out here.
"big-shouldered California boys"
Oh-la-la darcy, California dreaming!
Any of these fantasies come true?
;) http://www.costofwar.com/
Hey dino, sorry about your accident and your loss, hadn't heard.-s
Hey storme.
Thanks.
YCf Dino
Because of Taunton's new select attention span coupled with an inconsistent application of their own rules.
Just my 2 pennies
Nothing against Dino nor Darcy intended
There's often a lot of inertia and resistance to change. It's just like all the carps and framers who wouldn't touch pnumatic nailers; now they're ubiquitous..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Pierre1, Yer a curmudgeon. You can't belive a pretty young lady but you can believe me.
blue
Pro's who shop at my tool store do not want the laser, only the wanna-be homeowners.
Careful with that kinda talk around here. I made a similar suggestion regarding wormdrives and sidewinders....folks didn`t take kindly to it.
Lemme get this straight....
YOU BANNED REZ?!?!
Holy bagels and lox Batman!
I saw a Craftsman circ that had a laser shooting out the front. Just keep pushing the saw and look at the laser at the pointing at the end of the line. I can see where it would actually help a DIY or homeowner type get a better cut.
I saw a Craftsman circ that had a laser shooting out the front. Just keep pushing the saw and look at the laser at the pointing at the end of the line. I can see where it would actually help a DIY or homeowner type get a better cut.
But why wouldn't it help anyone (even a pro) get a better cut. I'm just asking about the laser. I doubt if I would buy a Craftsman circular saw (although I have some of their "professional" tools and I'm happy with them).
It seems a shame to me that sometimes otherwise useful "gadgets" are added to lesser quality tools first. It creates an association between the gadget and lesser quality. If I were a top-of-the-line tool maker, I would be reluctant to bring out a tool with this gadget until I knew there was a high demand for it. Basically, I would fear being associated with lesser quality.
So far, no one in this thread has actually used a laser circular saw. I know we don't but circular saws that often, but aren't most of us tool and gadget nuts?
-Don
Lasers are for sissies.
Lasers are for sissies.
Oh yeah? Is that so? Well, Trix are for kids!!!
That's about the only way to kick-start usage: you have to place new ideas in a high-volume market with a whole spectrum of buyers who'll accept fairly elastic prices and many have no preconceived ideas of right or wrong from legacy products..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Actually Mark, I'd love that if it was affixed to my Makita. I hate snapping lines and if I had that, I'd never snap another line on sheet stock. I rarely snap them now, but if I could avoid even one snap in the next year, I'd put the laser on it.
blue
Wormdrives rule here! Hell! What's up with those non-wormdrive people anyway? Wouldn't it make sence to see your flippin' blade when you're making a cut?Well, duh... I think they're just skinny with no muscle.Flippin' wimps!...What say you?
I'd like to see how square the average worm-drive cut really is, when cut by a right-handed person. Square top to bottom that is.
With that big-azz motor hanging over the offcut, the last bit must be on the bevel....not square. And rips must be a PITA as well. Breeds big arms I'll bet. Gorilla arms. ;)costofwar.com/
Me too but,like I said, it is the Saw-of-Choice out here. Why in the heck would you guys want your blade on the right where you can't see it?It makes no sense whatsoever. Safety first! Aye! idjuts!(sorry, I'm feeling abit saucy tonight!)
I can see my blade on my Makita (blade left).
Wormdrives are way over the top for framing.
I tried a blade right saw. I couldn't get it to make one cut on a 2x4. The idea of having the blade next to my fingers sends shivers up my neck. I'm positively sure that there are more digits removed by blade right tools than blade left tools.
Wanna bet some milkbones on that?
blue
Pooof goes the illusion. Oh well, I'll just curmudgeon on then.
Of course more fingers are removed by blade-right saws.... most saws are right-bladed.
You a lefty?costofwar.com/
"most saws are right-bladed"Got documentation?
Of course not. Just presuming on the basis of population distribution on the Left and Right coasts.
Right coasters are blade righters (sidewinders) and Left coasters are left bladers (wormers) - when it comes to the trades, no?
Incidentally, do California DIY homeowners buy sidewinders or wormdrives?costofwar.com/
You will see nothing but wormdrives here, believe me.Out here, we consider it the safest, most depenable saw on the market.You (whimpy, East-Coaster-) guys are always compaining about the weight.Heck, I'm a girl, and it is my saw of choice!What's wrong with you people?No shoulders?Buck Up, I say!(Wanna armwestle, bucko??) <g>
Darcy,A real Man or Woman can cut straight with both saws like us Jersey Boys and Girls....;-)Joe Carola
I agree, Joe.Thanks.
Pierre1, I messed up my first post. I have never used a blade left saw. I must had a brain freeze. I use an ordinary Makita and I'm right handed.
All this is so confusing to an old guy like me. I like it better in the olden days when there were only worms (I never saw one till I was in the trades 15 years), and blade right winders.
I'm trying to say that the righties that use a blade left saw are more likely to cut their finger off. It's impossible to cut your finger off with a blade right saw unless you reach over and do a crossover hold.
blue
I'm with you there blue. I'm too am right handed and use a right-bladed saw (a PC sidewinder - shhhh!). For me, having the blade as far away as possible to the right is best when using my left hand as a guide for quick rips.
If I had a more frequent need, I'd buy a blade left saw for those particular problems that are best solved by having the blade on the left. Be nice for alternating bevel cuts, rafter tails, cutting back an old floor...
Not a worm mind you: I don't have the 'California shoulders' that darcy lusts after.
;http://www.costofwar.com/
>> I'm trying to say that the righties that use a blade left saw are more likely to cut their finger off. << and, are more likely to get sawdust, wood chips, whatever in their eyes.
For what we do, a laser on a sliding chop saw would be great. When we have out of square cuts, we always have to hold the panel away from the fence, roll the blade across the cut and see where it hits all the way down the cut. An accurate laser would speed that up considerably.
Asside from what I've described, I do think they are going a bit overboard with the lasers on homeowner style tools. The one gimmick that I'd like to see on a lot more pro grade tools are the little led lights on the front of tools. They are the best thing in the world in a dark cabinet or crawlspace, or just when you're trying hard to close up a job after dark.
What say you?
Wormers rule.
Learn to use one properly, and a laser becomes overkill.
Lemme get this straight....
YOU BANNED REZ?!?!
Holy bagels and lox Batman!
Being able to see the blade is why I don't use a wormdrive - I'm left handed - lol. My cordless circ saw is a pain sometimes 'cause it's made "backwards" as far as I'm concerned.
2 reasons i use a sidewinder ( besides bein' a 6'2", 240 lb. wimp)
my dad had mostly sidewinders when I started
and
the one saw that wasn't a sidewinder was an old, 8-1/4" Skil wormdrive. Even in my younger days, that thing was HEAVY.
Besides, I live on the East Coast. I think its illegal to use wormdrives here <G>
Besides, I live on the East Coast. I think its illegal to use wormdrives here <G>Yep!At my store we have 11 saws, only one is a right blade sidwinder and it hasn't sold since I transferred down to this store (05/09/05)!
Heard that the new green light lasers are superior to the red light lasers...any comments?
the laser on my hitachiworks well and i use it alot ...i can set it for both sides of the blade...it works well for cutting long stock i can use it to line up my squared pencil line..
its hard to get the end of a 20 footer square with out is and its pain in the arse
also use it to line up the blade on long angle cuts that have been penciled in
get the laser
dont get the laser transit
Electric turkey knife with a laser for straighter slices would be probably overkill, but cool.