Just looking for some casual opinions on this…
I’m about to actually ‘bid’ for a job, that is, price out a set of plans that is being given to two other contractors. This is rarely something I want to do, but the designer is a very established guy and could be a source of work in the future, so I’m going to put together a proposal and see if it moves me up his list.
Anyway, after the meeting with the homeowners this morning, the designer says, can you get a price to us in two weeks? Well, yeah, actually I can, because I’m going to work it up within the next few days, so that I don’t forget all of the impressions I had while at the site.
I suspect the other bidders will wait two weeks, if not longer. The designer will probably have to call at least one of them and rattle his cage to get a proposal. Now, I could wait the two weeks, or just send the thing on Monday or Tuesday, whenever I have it ready. What would you do?
Replies
David -
There's no benefit to leaving it collect dust on your desk. Send it out. If you feel like your efforts might be misconstrued, tell them up front, you can't guarantee this speed all the time. OTOH, if you usually do your proposals quickly for your own needs, that is nothing to be ashamed of.
As far as the other guys, who cares? You are doing a better job for the customer.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Balance is the key, don't think holding back is gonna help your position because you THINK the other two will be slow. And don't rush it out in a hurry and maybe overlook something.
Also, first one to deliver does not mean you are hungry, but rather, speedy and well organized.
I had a fairly large bid to do , I posted about the redwood lattice, and got good feed back from here about HOW I could do it, when I decided to NOT take the work and NOT check the costs, I was concerned the guy wouldn't consider me for the other parts I did want.
Long story short, I stewed about calling him, wasted a week fretting over it. When I finally did call to explain why I could not do his work, he said " Oh, I meant to call you, we can't get the permits"
So, with that said, balance your feelings and strike at will..there are other factors that govern how thing s will/will not work out.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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I like to get quote (I rarely bid also) out right away for the same reaon you pointed out. I have a good memory but little things will get lost in time. So my first impression is to say send it in and be the early bird.
But then I wonder if the designer would use it as a "pick" for one of his more established contractors? "Yeah Bill this new guy David says he can do the drywall portion for $2300 so you're high in that area". Maybe I am just being paraniod (where is gunner anyway?!) but something to keep in mind. DanT
IMO,
if you are going to just send it out, you are wasting your time to work it up.
You PRESENT it, make an appointment to go over it with him and that is when he sees it, and when you sell it.
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In this case I will give it to the designer. He is handling 'bid solicitation' and it's actually him that I want to get some rapport with. The job itself... I can take it or leave it. I'm in the midst of building my shop right now, and I don't actually want this job unless they will wait a few months for me. Terrible business strategy, I know, but I need the shop done and that will only happen by passing on some work.
The proposal will take me two hours. The project is around $30K and I have very recent data on every material and almost every phase of the work. It's a no brainer. So, I'll put it together and drop it at the designer's office, have a quick chat with him, leave it at that.
I was mostly interested in whether people think the first bid in or the last bid in has the advantage. Myself I think it's the latter.... for reasons I can't quite figure.
I would send it out as soon as I was confident of the bid.
I think that the only reason the last guy out the door gets the job is that the owners' haven't liked anyone yet. They simply stop looking after they find the person they want to do business with.
Since you want to do business with the designer, he is the one you want to impress and timeliness is a quality that any businessman will appreciate.
One of my concerns is that the owners will review the first proposal or two, decide what their objections are, and then somehow those tidbits get fed to the last guy, who tailors his proposal around the issues.
My proposal is 80% done already and I could deliver it tomorrow. That's my shot, and I've taken it, I only get one shot. If I do go first, the designer will probably review my proposal with the owners shortly, say by Wednesday. The owners will react to my price, my timeline, my assumptions and exclusions, all carefully detailed in the proposal.
Later in the week, contestant #2 will call the designer because he has some question on the plans. The designer will answer the question and then maybe let it slip that the owners reacted to this or that in my proposal. After all, the designer is charging money to solicit and review proposals, and he needs one to be successful so the project moves ahead. Contestant #2 reads between the lines and steers around the objection. Just like on those shows like Fear Factor, where the guy who goes last gets to see what tripped the others up.
This is really not a major question to me. I was curious to see what others thought, and how others might handle bid situations. Like I said I've spent a couple of hours on this and I'm perfectly willing to lose them. I priced the entire thing from recent materials invoices from other jobs, no calls or faxes needed. If I get the job it will probably screw up my schedule on other things, so I'm not really gunning for it. If the designer likes me he will probably put me in other bidding situations (or maybe he'll like me so much that he'll hand me some no-bid jobs!).
David,My impression so fas is to present what you have right away and let the designer know that you are flexible, if the clients want some revisions you can give them want they want with no fuss. You may even allude to the possibility of your work being used as a springboard, which you're ok with just as long as you get a second chance to jump.I would imagine if this designer is worth pursuing he will respect your request and may even appreciate your timely response, accessibility, and thorough job.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
will call the designer because he has some question on the plans. The designer will answer the question
If the desgner is a professional, and if the Q&A would alter the bids, then he would alert all the bidders and give them a chance to make adjustments. If your bid is already in, he should call and tell you the new information and give you the chance to revise your bid.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I liked many of the comments here.
Frankly, if I'm bidding against other's, I don't care if I get it or not.
I'm positioned mainly by referal and get most of the jobs without direct competition.
And then, I don't care if I get them either. I'm too busy to care.
I usually get the quotes done pretty quick when it's fresh in my head. Sometimes I sit on them, sometimes I send 'em out same day (mostly right away).
I don't think that the customer will pit the 1st two against each other and choose the last one. I think whoever pays closest attention to detail, presents the most professional appearance, and has the most charisma will win out; it's not always the lowest bid, either. Also, if your personality clashes with the customer for some unknown reason, you're out without even having a chance.
Go figure.
Grunge on. http://grungefm.com
"What would you do?"
present myself well during the client meetings ... sell the sh!t outta "ME" ...
then work up and present my price.
I'd not give a second thot to the other bidders, their prices or their time lines ...
This is simply how I operate ... how my brain is wired to work. Solo referal against no other bidders ... or bidding against every other guy pulled from the phone book ...
I don't care ... and I don't change.
on the other hand ... I have been accused of smiling way too much thru life, and of not ever being upset enough at remodeling's little wrenches thrown into the works ...
and that might be directly traced to the fact I don't base my promises or prices on competitors bad ideas ....
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Jeff, Your recent thoughts were a breath of fresh air for me! Thank you, I needed a little boost. Tim
I wouldn't wait. Like someone said, coming in before the deadline shows you are organized. And I like Piffin's counsel to present the bid in person. What I would do is take an extra day to make the bid look professional -- neatly typed on letterhead or your business form(s), correct spelling, punctuation, grammar, capitalization, plainly stated, and so forth. Make sure your numbers are what you want them to be, you didn't leave anything out, they add up, and your price is high enough that you make money on the job.
It is important to understand the "rules" you are bidding under for every job you compete on; how the selection will be made. Are you to offer a firm fixed price, or a T&M not-to-exceed, or an estimate, or a cost-plus-fixed-fee, etc. Will they necessarily take the lowest bidder (like on government contracts) or will they give consideration to other factors such as schedule availability, references, quality, payment terms, personality, and so on.
Edit: corrected a misspelled word; guess I didn't follow my own advice!
Edited 4/23/2006 1:50 pm ET by WayneL5
I come from a mostly commercial background, so my opinion will be coloured somewhat by that cutthroat world. Prices get shopped all the time, both those of subs and GCs. So my first thought would be, do the proposal right away, and make an appointment to present your bid - but only on the deadline date. You imply that you're experienced and aware of the trickery that sometimes occur in this business.
But... if your real desire is to develop a connection with this designer, why not do up the bid and present it ASAP? Make the impression that you get things done quickly, make a person-to-person connection, and then sit back and see what transpires. If you get a call back a few days later and get asked to sharpen the price, maybe you've been shopped. Or you find the designer to be an honourable person in their dealings even though you don't get the job. Either way you learn a lot about them. Or of course you get the job and begin a fruitful working relationship with a design professional who ends up turning a lot of work in your direction for years to come! (The only problem is how to finish building your own project!)